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Thread: Figured I'd put something up, here's my '86 635CSi...

  1. #1
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    Figured I'd put something up, here's my '86 635CSi...

    Since it's a bit too cold to be working on her, I decided to put up a build thread for y'all.

    Bought an '86 635CSi roller a few months back. Zinnoberrot over Llama leather power sport seats. I couldn't walk away from the car, that's one of my favorite color combinations. Even better, the car came from Florida. The car has been well taken care of; body has a dent or three and a water leak I have to track down, but it's in pretty nice shape overall. The upholstery is pretty nice as well, except for a few small cuts in the driver's seat. The driver seat's inner left lower bolster was repaired with a Natur panel, but perfectly done.

    The car came with a bit of history - PO bought it in Florida after it had an '88 M5 engine swapped in. He parked it after the M88 spun a bearing back in '02.

    After we struck a deal, I had it towed to my place and started cleaning her up. This one has a lot of goodies...original options include premium audio, OBC II, rear sunshade and TRX rims. The original tool kit is mostly there too. Upgrades include a nice sporty Momo steering wheel and an adequate Sony CD/MP3 head unit. First upgrade was an OEM first aid kit I had sitting around.





    It's nice to be back in the 6er forum; I haven't spent much time here since I traded off my old '82 633CSi. I missed that old tank...even though it had to be the red-headedest stepchild of all E24s. The very last of the E12-based cars had Motronic M30B32 motors with the early bullet-type fuse box and a hybrid wiring harness. Oddities abounded on that car - it was quite a task to sort it all out. Production date was 12/81, schwartz over cardinal comfort manual leather. No options except power windows, locks, sunroof & A/C. Happily it had Bilstein struts and stainless brake lines. Despite all the troubles I had, the car was a joy to drive. She had some rust issues too, so when I got a trade offer (a scruffy '95 Honda VFR750f), off she went.

    Casually, I'd been looking for another E24, hoping for something red and with an E28 chassis. PO contacted me out of the blue - he'd seen my E30 parts F/S on CL and thought I'd be interested...he was absolutely right!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also a parts car on the way. The donor is a horribly rusted wreck but it will get me a transmission, diff and some brakes. I like to have spares too. If that works out, all I'll need is a nice M30B35 to finish her up.





    I know it sucks to chop up a slicktop Euro but this car has led a very hard, rough life indeed. There isn't a lot of it left...and it will give its life for a good cause.

    - - - Updated - - -

    First question...how's the memory seat function supposed to work? I'm assuming we just press a button and the seats move around? I don't have an owner's manual yet, and my Google-fu let me down for once.

    I got nuthin' from it. So before I take it apart to clean it, is there something I should do?
    Last edited by DesktopDave; 11-16-2014 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #2
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    This was posted on the Roadfly Board by someone with the handle of 'amd ' back in October of 2003.

    QUOTE
    This is how it works on my M6. I assume that's pretty standard.

    Just to the front of the seat adjustment controls there should be bank of
    small buttons labeled 1, 2, 3, with a wide button labeled "STOP" just ahead
    of them. Make sure the STOP button isn't depressed, or you won't be able to
    adjust the seats at all.

    By each button is a small hole. Once you've adjusted the seat to your
    liking, stick a pen or pencil into the small hole next to the button you
    wish to program (the same way you would to set the time on the OBC) for a
    couple of seconds. The LED next to the button should flash when you do this.
    If it goes red, there's been an error.
    Also, key needs to be in 2nd position, the one just before starting the car.
    ENDQUOTE

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor Marshall View Post
    This was posted on the Roadfly Board by someone with the handle of 'amd ' back in October of 2003.

    QUOTE
    This is how it works on my M6. I assume that's pretty standard.

    Just to the front of the seat adjustment controls there should be bank of
    small buttons labeled 1, 2, 3, with a wide button labeled "STOP" just ahead
    of them. Make sure the STOP button isn't depressed, or you won't be able to
    adjust the seats at all.

    By each button is a small hole. Once you've adjusted the seat to your
    liking, stick a pen or pencil into the small hole next to the button you
    wish to program (the same way you would to set the time on the OBC) for a
    couple of seconds. The LED next to the button should flash when you do this.
    If it goes red, there's been an error.
    Also, key needs to be in 2nd position, the one just before starting the car.
    ENDQUOTE
    Thanks for the description; it does work just like that. I determined the problem, although the solution isn't incredibly helpful. The seat memory switch should be plugged into the harness correctly. It doesn't seem to be keyed, so odds of plugging it in properly are about 50:50.

    After my button triumph, I noted one oddity. I programmed a memory setting then moved the seat to test. I pressed the "1" button, got a green LED for my efforts, and nothing happened. So you have to hold down the "1" button until the seat returns to the set position? It's not sheer laziness; it's my fear of burning out a motor or stripping a gear. Is it the quirky vintage BMW behavior we've all come to know and love? Or...is it designed to work that way? I'm guessing it's working properly.

  4. #4
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    Took advantage of the beautiful weather to work on the donor. :o

    The car arrives...donor & recipient shot:


    Eww. Admittedly, the car is a mess. We knew that going in. There's a little more here than I expected; I prefer to start out pessimistic. Given, it's a flood car...but I have my fingers crossed that it's not a total loss. Insurance-wise it is...although I find it odd that Experian's AutoCheck didn't note the flood damage on the title. They did flag a mileage discrepancy; that information saved me a bunch of money.

    Today's fun was cleaning it up a bit to see exactly what I have. I've been very curious about the motor's condition. I knew the oil pan was cracked; but I had some hope that flood damage could include F&R dents, a cracked pan and lots of rust. So I pulled the air filter & plugs; they seemed OK. I squirted a good bit of SeaFoam's penetrating oil down the plug holes to let it soak in. Then I pulled off the cam cover...it wasn't completely trashed! No severe rust, nothing really awful. Then I pulled the engine fan & radiator - the entire system is bone dry. Not exactly promising.

    Got my big honkin' 36mm socket onto the crank bolt...with a 3' length of conduit on the wrench as a breaker bar...and gave it a yank. The motor gave a bit of a groan, then broke loose & spun! ;D
    Too early to tell about compression though...the electrical system is a disaster.

    Surprisingly, cam box isn't all that bad, just surface rust. Plugs weren't awful either.


    I also put up an ad to see if anyone needs anything from the car. I'm not going to use much, bought it for the transmission & diff. Here's my CL ad:
    https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/pts/4774897383.html
    Just bought a 1982 E24 for the engine, tranny & diff. I don't need the rest of it. I figured I'd ask if anyone needed anything before the car gets chopped up and scrapped. The car was definitely a fresh-water flood victim....so it's REALLY rough, please email me for any details.

    Before you ask, the Euro bumpers are trashed. There are a few trim bits that might be salvageable, but the bumpers are too far gone to save. The front and rear spoilers are still OK. If you desperately need some TRX rims for hose reels, the car still has three good ones. Vintage Michelin TRX tires are free, great for conversation starters!

    The interior is completely trashed but there are a few salvageable parts. I'd think the steering wheel, Euro cluster, HVAC panel, Becker Mexico and other hard plastic pieces could be OK. Front seats are missing...the black leather rear seats are very dirty but still intact.

    The glass, passenger door and trunk lid are structurally OK, but the attached trim is a moldy mess.

    Unusually, this is a non-sunroof 635 - the only one I've ever seen - so the roof panel is also available. I'm not sure why you'd need it, but I hate to see rare stuff go to waste. If you're auto-crossing an E24 it'd help out with weight distribution!
    Last edited by DesktopDave; 11-23-2014 at 05:10 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesktopDave View Post
    Thanks for the description; it does work just like that. I determined the problem, although the solution isn't incredibly helpful. The seat memory switch should be plugged into the harness correctly. It doesn't seem to be keyed, so odds of plugging it in properly are about 50:50.

    After my button triumph, I noted one oddity. I programmed a memory setting then moved the seat to test. I pressed the "1" button, got a green LED for my efforts, and nothing happened. So you have to hold down the "1" button until the seat returns to the set position? It's not sheer laziness; it's my fear of burning out a motor or stripping a gear. Is it the quirky vintage BMW behavior we've all come to know and love? Or...is it designed to work that way? I'm guessing it's working properly.

    Dave,

    The functions of the power seats should be described in a E23 Owners manual. When I get home, ill look it up and let you know!

    -Gunner
    06/86 735i Delphin Metallic
    11/11 X5 35i ​Alpineweiss ii

  6. #6
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    Were gunna need more pics of the engine in that red car then....

    And I just pm'd you about that parts car but only looked at the pics after.. wow she really is rough, too bad.





  7. #7
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    The red car has no motor. It was totally upgraded with E28 M5 parts...the whole nine yards...M88, Getrag 280, 210mm LSD, brakes, suspension, etc. The M88 sadly spun a bearing...so the PO pulled the goodies. I only own a bare E24 chassis...that's why I bought the silver Euro - I needed the parts! Now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure the PO still has it sitting around. I'll see if he'll shoot a few pics for us.

    I'm hoping that the dirty M30 in this Euro will come back to life so I can update it with some later-model parts like a Motronic 1.3, M30B35 manifolds, later-model under drive pulleys, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyone have an oil pan for the earlier M30B34 motors? If so, LMK. If not, I'll be trying metal filled epoxy for a temporary fix.

    I'll post it later on in the WTB section.

  8. #8
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    Ah, gotcha. I was hoping you had a fun little franken M like Im working towards.

    I actually have ALL the b35 goodies for an e34's m30 and a couple e28 base oil pans if you need some stuff.





  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6erWEBB View Post
    Ah, gotcha. I was hoping you had a fun little franken M like Im working towards.

    I actually have ALL the b35 goodies for an e34's m30 and a couple e28 base oil pans if you need some stuff.
    I'll keep that in mind, great to know.

    I did a bit more work on the car today, getting closer to the root of the problem.

    Here's why we can't have nice things anymore:







    Freshwater flooding. Most likely this is oh-so-dead, but it never hurts to try. Bosch usually overbuilt these DMEs. Maybe we'll get lucky? I have the boards in a bath right now; we'll see if a little soaking helps with what ails them.

  10. #10
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    I just posted this to help out another enthusiast...if anyone has corrections, please let me know.

    One of these days I'll have an E9, but it hasn't happened yet. I've heard they're pretty beastly to restore, but they're such pretty cars! You are perfectly warranted in wanting the best motor for that car, despite it not being strictly original. I hope we leave numbers-matching to the muscle car boutique buyers...BMW guys are cut from a different cloth, right?

    There's a bunch of variants to look for. Your CS could also benefit from an M90B35; the big bore/short-stroke (93.4mmx86mm) SOHC version of the M88/S38 family. That's not a typo; the M90 is a different casting than the M30, although virtually all parts interchange. That's a whole different can of worms. I haven't verified any of this personally, but it was equipped with the multipart bananafold and Jetronic except at the very end of production...a few E12 and E24 got the M90 with the Motronic manifold...DME should be an 002. Here's a picture of a stripped block with the very distinctive raised coolant passage:
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...83#post7448283

    There's only one way to really tell for sure on the Motronic motors. The pistons have a different crown on the late model Euro M30B34. It's impossible to tell otherwise; the motors look identical externally. Same one-piece manifold, same system, etc. The DME is a good first hint, the high-compression motors should have an 011 with the matching AFM (I don't recall that number, but AFMs are not all created equal!). An 059 was the stock US part, with provision for an O2 sensor and tuning for the lower compression motor. However, some thorough federalizers could have swapped that part in. I'm told later Euros will have an 061 DME.

    I've been told that the build sheet (rear seat cushion or online) on any true dirty M30 will note that the catalyzer was not installed, that's 'Kat=ohne' in German. That was true on my car, and several others I looked at. Earlier than '82, you'll need to find the sheet on the car as BMW didn't keep perfect records on earlier cars.

    The E24 and E28 535i are well-known for having these motors, but if you'd like to find one cheap, they're also common in Euro E23s.

    Then there's the hybrids...swapping later parts onto the early motors is fun and rewarding. I'll be doing a bit of this myself. The last of the line was the M30B35 ('88-'93?). It also looks identical, but most parts were improved. All motors had provision for Catalysts and O2. Motronic 1.3 is a big improvement (DME 079). The valves are bigger, head passages and intake manifold passages are larger internally. The exhaust manifold is slightly larger and flows a little better as well. Front-mount crank sensor is more reliable IMHO than the flywheel speed sensors of the earlier motors. Gear reduction starters are lighter and more powerful without that troublesome spade connector for the start signal. Coolant and alternator pulleys are smaller, with an OEM factory over-drive. A/C compressors can easily be upgraded to R134. OTOH, the combustion chamber is larger, so you'll lose a bit of compression. Be aware that the block castings will require adapters for earlier motor mounts, and the oil pan does not have bosses for the earlier P/S pump.

    So you have a lot of choices, LOL.

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesktopDave View Post
    The DME is a good first hint, the high-compression motors should have an 011 with the matching AFM (I don't recall that number, but AFMs are not all created equal!). An 059 was the stock US part, with provision for an O2 sensor and tuning for the lower compression motor. However, some thorough federalizers could have swapped that part in. I'm told later Euros will have an 061 DME.

    Dave
    The 011 was the DME used on the early euro motronic systems and the US counterpart was the 008 unit. The 008 unit was often swapped in with provisions for the o2 added when the cars were federalized during the gray market importation. The next generation motronic saw the use of the 061 unit for the euro non catalyst models and for the catalyst system including the US; received the 059 unit. These later units could not be swapped into the earlier systems without a complete change over.


    Quote Originally Posted by DesktopDave View Post
    Be aware that the block castings will require adapters for earlier motor mounts, and the oil pan does not have bosses for the earlier P/S pump.

    Dave
    Depending on the model that the B35 is coming from and going into: an oil pan swap may not be necessary. And the oil pan mating to the block is the same as other m30s. The b35 as used on the e24 had the standard casting as the previous m30s so the same motor mounts were used and an adapter was not required. Some of the early e32 b35 blocks had both sets of mounting holes cast in place as well so the adapters were not needed so you will have to check the block in question before you jump to conclusions on this matter. Similar things happed with the medium case differentials during this transition period.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinacsi View Post
    The 011 was the DME used on the early euro motronic systems and the US counterpart was the 008 unit. The 008 unit was often swapped in with provisions for the o2 added when the cars were federalized during the gray market importation. The next generation motronic saw the use of the 061 unit for the euro non catalyst models and for the catalyst system including the US; received the 059 unit. These later units could not be swapped into the earlier systems without a complete change over.




    Depending on the model that the B35 is coming from and going into: an oil pan swap may not be necessary. And the oil pan mating to the block is the same as other m30s. The b35 as used on the e24 had the standard casting as the previous m30s so the same motor mounts were used and an adapter was not required. Some of the early e32 b35 blocks had both sets of mounting holes cast in place as well so the adapters were not needed so you will have to check the block in question before you jump to conclusions on this matter. Similar things happed with the medium case differentials during this transition period.
    That's some outstanding info, thanks for the corrections!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesktopDave View Post
    That's some outstanding info, thanks for the corrections!
    He's got tons of info... It's ridiculous sometimes lol
    Kai Xing
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  14. #14
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    Hello everyone! Sorry I do not know how to post a new thread here. I'm new to this I recently bought a 1985 635CSi, it's actually my first car. If anyone has the time to send me a message to show me how to add a new thread it will be so much help! I will also post new pictures too. Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexTheBeaner View Post
    Hello everyone! Sorry I do not know how to post a new thread here. I'm new to this I recently bought a 1985 635CSi, it's actually my first car. If anyone has the time to send me a message to show me how to add a new thread it will be so much help! I will also post new pictures too. Thank you!
    Greetings, Alex, and welcome! You might want to start on this page: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/fo...mp-Suggestions
    That should get you going!
    Last edited by WWW89E24; 11-30-2014 at 08:28 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexTheBeaner View Post
    Hello everyone! Sorry I do not know how to post a new thread here. I'm new to this I recently bought a 1985 635CSi, it's actually my first car. If anyone has the time to send me a message to show me how to add a new thread it will be so much help! I will also post new pictures too. Thank you!
    Go back to the E24 main page, then click the "Post new Thread" button at the top left. It'll be just under the Announcements. Welcome!

  17. #17
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    Thank you! It helped a lot, I just posted a thread with some pictures of my car also if you would like to check it out.

  18. #18
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    Hmmm. Possible new project car coming my way...keep your fingers crossed. Pics to follow.

  19. #19
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    It's been a little while since I updated this, but I've been slowly working on it. Too slowly....the weather has not cooperated but I've gotten a few things done. I pulled the motor, transmission, shifter, diff and driveshafts. They're all in decent shape, as far as I can tell.

    To summarize:
    • It's a 3.07 open medium case diff with the center mount.
    • Getrag 265/5 in good shape. Input shaft is a bit crusty but it spins and shifts. Sheet metal shifter is in good shape.
    • Driveshaft had a pretty rough CSB and cracking guibo, otherwise OK.
    • Motor has a cracked oil pan and a wee bit of surface rust from sitting.


    For the motor, I picked up an oil pan from 6erWebb (highly recommended seller BTW) and bought the 1K engine stand from HF (no CL bargains this time of the year ). I just started pulling the clutch and found that it's not very pretty in there. I was happy to find the lighter '463' flywheel still installed (19#). So I'm lookning into clutches. The E28 M5 clutch is a common upgrade but I'm waiting to pull the trigger until the weather clears...and I sell a few more things. I found a very useful thread with tons of info in the E28 forum here.

    To sum that thread up, I'll likely need most of these parts:
    1 - e28 m5 flywheel 11221271463 [this is what I have, the stock E24 Euro part. Just needs resurfaced]
    8 - flywheel bolts 11221717840
    6 - pressure plate bolts 7119919939
    1 - sachs 3 piece clutch kit 21212226428 [I might buy the cheaper Valeo]
    1 - pilot bearing 11211709681
    1 - input shaft transmission seal 23121220619
    1 - output shaft transmission seal 23121205340
    1 - rear crankshaft seal 11142245364
    1 - flex disc 26117511454
    6 - flex disc nut 7129900047
    1 - center driveshaft bearing 26121226723
    2 - transmission mounts 23711131664
    1 - tube of white lithium grease (from amazon, no p#, definitely necessary)
    I probably won't be buying all that stuff since much can be reused. AutoHauzAZ lists the bulk of it for $600. Pelican has a great 'super clutch kit' with virtually everything I'd need. It includes more parts but bumped the price up to $712. Blunttech came in under $740. I couldn't get the ECSTuning shipping cart loaded up in Firefox. Any other supplier suggestions? I've used all the above and they've all been great.
    Last edited by DesktopDave; 02-15-2015 at 12:38 PM.

  20. #20
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    Here's a few pics of the results of my labor over the weekend. First, I needed to pull the bellhousing and the clutch so I could put the motor up on my new stand.



    I suspect a new clutch is required:


    Victory!


    I flipped the motor over on it's side to swap the cracked oil pan. Annoyingly, the alternator mounting had a broken ear from the same impact. Nothing seems too bad inside the bottom end, although I'm still not sure how much I trust it. I'll be taking things apart over the next few weeks to see if the engine is good or not. I did manage to swap the oil pan tonight, although it still needs a gasket. Two pan bolts were bent too, I've never seen that before. Just a few more parts on the (rapidly growing) project list. Here's what the old sump looked like:


    It sure is dirty inside...but I'd expected worse. So I can't complain too much...I've only had to drill out one stripped fastener so far.

    This motor has led a rough life. She ran about 100K then sat for ten years. According to the story I heard, the owner gifted it to his nephew, who brought back to life. A year or two later she was flooded & totaled. A collector saved her from the crusher at an insurance auction but left her to rot in a field for five years. He sold all four of his E24s to a guy in Ohio, who towed them to another field...and there she decayed for another five years. Then she came to me, what was left of her. I bought the car for the gearbox and trim parts, but with any luck (and a lot of help from you guys) I can bring this motor back to life. Mostly every car I've owned gets a personality that suggests a name. Since this one has been through the underworld I'm naming her Persephone...
    Last edited by DesktopDave; 02-16-2015 at 12:10 PM.

  21. #21
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    Pulled some parts off the block tonight. It wasn't fun. I'm stripping it down to replace all the gaskets, pipes & rubber while it's out of the car. I figured the starter would be the hardest part, but that paled in comparison to the intake manifold.



    I'm glad that's done. The list grows longer...lots of gaskets and seals on that M30, isn't there? I've been pricing it out, best prices are at RockAuto and AutoHausAZ. Any other vendor recommendations? RockAuto's shipping costs are the only thing keeping them from being the best. I dislike jumping through their hoops for parts, but it tends to save me a bit of money.

  22. #22
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    I spent a little more quality time on the old gal today. Pulled all the PO's M5 stuff, started swapping parts from the Euro parts car. Wish I could keep those parts, they're a nice selection of items. If anyone is interested in these, please don't hesitate to ask, LOL. They are negotiable and reasonably priced, I'd prefer to sell them as a package deal. The E28 M5 quad-pot front brakes look good. The Getrag 280 spins very smoothly and includes a short shifter. The large case 3.64 LSD is a rare and really nice part. Diff has a few cracked fins on the late model E28 offset-type mount, otherwise it looks great. Massively heavy part though, it was a quite the project to swap it out.

    I have the later model diff, but the centered mount won't fit the '86 recipient. Early E28 & E28-based 6'ers used the late model medium case diff but with the centered E12 diff mount. I might fabricate a spacer temporarily. I'm willing to trade covers if anyone needs the centered cover. I'll also consider reasonably priced medium tall LSD. This car will have a dirty M30, 5-speed, heavier US chassis, and typically be used for suburban and highway casual driving. I'd think a 3.46 would be good, a 3.64 might be ideal, and a 3.73 would be OK too.


    I'll post my full "parts wanted" list sooner or later. I'm on a moderate budget, so I haven't considered eBay (except for emergencies). Off-hand, I know I need:
    Early model alternator & P/S bracket (the type that bolts to both block and oil pan)
    Offset medium case diff mount or decent ratio medium case LSD.
    Last edited by DesktopDave; 08-11-2019 at 11:19 PM.

  23. #23
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    My Cars
    '86 635CSi, '08 128i
    Unbelievably, the offset rear diff cover is listed as "in stock" at many online parts sources. It was pretty cheap too, only about $80 shipped. I was hoping that I didn't need to buy an entire diff just for that offset cover. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's actually on the way. I'll post some pics when (if?) it actually arrives.

    The tranny mounts I need are unpleasantly expensive, like $60/each. On my G265 they're mid-mounted to ears on both sides of the gearbox. The Euro had a slender alu trans subframe with two mounting holes instead of the more typical four-hole type. I might look into the rear single-mount subframe instead, if that was available for the 265 in the E24/2.

    I'm often surprised to find that most of those subframe variants are available brand-new; BMW does an excellent job of keeping old parts in the pipeline. I needed one for my last E24...after a few eBay mistakes I ordered one brand-new to suit my '81 633 with the G260/5.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    2,876
    My Cars
    1985 535i, 1980 635CSi
    Great progress Dave! Not sure how I missed this thread. You are still making good progress for the winter time!! It may be warming up soon and that's when you want to be driving it, not just working on it!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    1,718
    My Cars
    '86 635CSi, '08 128i
    Thanks. It's not as far along as I've wanted it to be, but it's satisfying to watch it come together. Feels like two steps forward & one back most weeks.

    I'm cautiously optimistic about the engine too. Here's the current game plan:

    1. Hopefully I can get a compression test done this weekend.
    2. New gaskets & seals on the bottom end.
    3. Resurface the flywheel & replace the clutch.
    4. Rebuild the injectors and repair the Euro Motronic 1.0 wiring harness. I'm hoping that the AFM and DME are OK.
    5. If not...collect the proper parts for an upgrade to Motronic 1.3.


    You can be sure it'll all be posted here as I tackle these tasks.

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