Bosch 5.7 ABS module questions

[mpo]

Looks like I am the 1 millionth person with a bad 5.7 module...

I sent to Automotive Scientific (ate1234) in Tennessee for rebuild and they kept it 2 weeks then sent it back still broken, so now I am without the module for 3 1/2 weeks so far. They didn't bother to tell me of course and no refund either, some guarantee.

I understand that if I buy a new or used one it will need "coding" and that will cost $100 (which is probably 200 "Seattle Dollars", since BMW dealers use a different monetary system out here)

My questions are these:

Do they have to have the car to program the module? I am guessing yes.

Can I buy any used 5.7 module from any car (Audi, etc) and they can recode it? The number on mine is 295 950 002. I see some for sale that end with 054, 055, 001. The 001 is the one they sell on Amazon for $420

Can I code it myself with a OBD Diagnostic cable with INPA Ediabas Ncs Expert, etc?

If I get the same 295 950 002 would I even have to code it?

If I get one from the exact same year and model would I have to code it?

Thanks

[freethrowdunk]

Did you send it to Autoecu?

See here.

Not quite sure on the other stuff so let the others chime in.

[mpo]

I sent it to ebay seller ate1234 who claims their name is Automotive Scientific. However that post you linked seems to suggest they are or were Autoecu? Don't know. Just know that I am very unhappy. Now I have to chase them for the money.

[freethrowdunk]

I sent it to ebay seller ate1234 who claims their name is Automotive Scientific. However that post you linked seems to suggest they are or were Autoecu? Don't know. Just know that I am very unhappy. Now I have to chase them for the money.

Yes, same company, same eBay vendor. If you do not have the time/resources/etc. to pursue the route I did, then definitely fight them for your money back.
Otherwise, they are obligated to honor their lifetime warranty service and you should seek getting the unit fixed if in fact it's a feasible option.

[KevinMullins]

Do they have to have the car to program the module? I am guessing yes.

Yes.

Can I buy any used 5.7 module from any car (Audi, etc) and they can recode it? The number on mine is 295 950 002. I see some for sale that end with 054, 055, 001.

Hard to say, I don't have a complete cross reference list of any kind, and been a while since I researched that aspect of it. Part numbers get superseded all the time, so some may be the same physical part but with a different number.... best to match numbers if there is any doubt.

You could look your specific vehicle up on http://realoem.com and look under BRAKES -> CONTROL SYSTEMS -> HYDRO UNIT DSC/CONTROL UNIT/FASTENING and get the BMW part number and see what comes up during searches with that number. Might give an idea if you have a superseded number or anything like that on yours.


Also, any that you might look at need to have the same number of solenoids. Some modules have fewer than others for different ASC/DSC/etc systems. I'd bet yours has all 12.

Can I code it myself with a OBD Diagnostic cable with INPA Ediabas Ncs Expert, etc?

Yes. Sometimes a bit tricky, but yes.

If I get the same 295 950 002 would I even have to code it?

For basic functionality...most of the time no.
But if something like the steering angle sensor values are too far off, then yes, because it'll cause errors.
Just really don't know until you put it on. I recommend coding it anyways for VIN, mileage, and overall module communication sake with the rest of the system.

If I get one from the exact same year and model would I have to code it?

Same answer as above.

Hope that helps some.

- - - Updated - - -

Recommend getting INPA and all that setup for ease of trouble shooting problems that may arise in the future.

What were your symptoms and troubleshooting that determined you needed a module repair? (newer ones were suppose to be better and less prone to failure)
Just curious in case it's actually a problem elsewhere with a wheel sensor or something like that, but without codes it's hard to help troubleshoot the system.

[pshovest]

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1765680

[mpo]

Wow, After reading all that I think I will just pay the stealer to do it. Main problem is making the appointment and waiting around, dropping the car off etc.

I had the classic "trifecta" three lights on. I did the sensor voltage test from the connector described in another thread and it passed that perfectly. Based on that I decided the module was bad. The eBay seller is stating it is not rebuildable so I guess it was bad or they don't know what they are doing, or both.

Mine has the same BMW and Bosch PN's that you show in the photo. However, realOEM shows 34526769862 as the current PN.

- - - Updated - - -

Good call on the coil count. The $420 one on Amazon had only 10 coils. The 12 coil is $470. Any opinion if this one would work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-05-Audi-A...31492192&rt=nc

[mpo]

Well, I got a refund from ate1234. But I had to ask for it. You would think when they ship the thing back not fixed they would tell you and give you the refund. So I have wasted about a month on them and lost my shipping charge to them also. BBA-Reman said they don't want to touch it after the other guys worked on it, but they sell a rebuilt one for $249. I called the local dealer in Bellevue and I wasn't far off in my price guess for recoding. Their base labor rate (drum roll please)..... $192 per hour. Yeah, I made the guy repeat that since I couldn't believe it. Maybe they hire lawyers to work on the cars?

My local indie shop is trying to figure out if he can do it. Meanwhile I can buy the programming kit from the guy in Romania on eBay for $35 but it takes 10 days to get (or more). And the instructions look pretty complicated.

[DUDMD]

I posted in your other thread as well.
I can code your module for you, just get a hole of me. No need to drop off the car, you can come in and wait while I do it.

[mpo]

Latest update is I received a guaranteed rebuilt unit from BBA Reman today. I hooked it up per instructions (disconnected the battery). I expected two of the 3 "trifecta" lights to go out (they did). I expected the triangle light to still be on since it isn't programmed yet (it is). However, the speedo, which worked fine even with the old bad module now doesn't work. Is this something that requires programming to work also?

Thanks

[KevinMullins]

Is this something that requires programming to work also?

No. That should work regardless of vehicle coding.

Does the cruise control, odometer, trip meter, etc work?
Have you tested any of the actual wheel speed sensors?

[m5hoot]

No. That should work regardless of vehicle coding.

Does the cruise control, odometer, trip meter, etc work?
Have you tested any of the actual wheel speed sensors?

I have an extensive "history" with ATE and it has not been good. It is too bad that you were not able (possibly) to make the connection between Automotive Scientific and ATE as I personally have posted about them as well as many others. I had to help a college guy who was a member of this forum get his money back from them after a YEAR! I had to develop a relationship with the owner to rectify my own bad situation which was very similar to yours. ATE had my module 3 times and kept telling me that it was good. The owner of ATE claims that the 3rd time my module went back, he personally re-built it adding multiple redundant wires to be "extra sure" my module would never fail again. It still was DOA and I finally told BBA what had happened and they said they would take a shot at it and I only had to pay *if* they could get it right. BBA said it tested BAD on 2 out of 3 of their tests (remember ATE still maintained it was not the module as it tested just fine in Tennessee) and that the board was so butchered, that they could not take the time to reverse engineer whatever ATE did and they shipped it back as bad and they even paid my shipping! I think they might have wanted to see for themselves what one of their competitors did. They had no re-builds in stock that they were trying to sell me so BBA had "no dog in this fight*. I bought a new module, my Indy programmed it for nothing, and I was good to go and have been ever since (several years ago). I left a $50 for beer money knowing I got really taken care of. Star Automotive in the Western burbs of Chicago is absolutely the BMW & MB best. $60 an hour labor and they will allow you to buy the parts and they will just charge labor. They never are more than what BMW rates the repair at and almost always can do in about half the time. I.e. put my new main display in when BMW was still doing goodwill pixel issue replacements. Star Automotive charged me for 15 minutes labor as they said that is all the time it takes to change one out. Palestinian family all ASE certified and even BMW & MB authorized repair facility. They maintain the warranty on every repair. Nuff free promotion. Good luck getting into their lot which at any given moment has probably 50-60 German cars in their parking lot waiting for repair. They don't do bodywork, however :-(

I would send your old module to BBA anyway and don't tell them it has been worked on previously. If they can get it going, they will. If they can't, I highly doubt they would charge. At the worst they may agree to try and repair it even after ATE, but will not want to warranty if they do succeed. BBA is as honest as the day is long. Read the many posts (ad nauseam) on Bimmerfest, but echo'd here more concisely. Call around and see if the INDY you choose has the right coding equipment (I can't recall the name and I knew it like the back of my hand...autologic programmer or similar). Someone will chime in and correct me. I do not believe it can be coded w/o the car, but it is really just reading the Vin# to know what your car is- engine size, touring vs. sedan, etc. so it can set the ABS up accordingly. Maybe some can code it with just a vin and the BMW database behind it such as real.oem does to figure out what options you have. Good luck and post your final outcome pls.

[KevinMullins]

The owner of ATE claims that the 3rd time my module went back, he personally re-built it adding multiple redundant wires to be "extra sure" my module would never fail again.

That alone is enough of a red flag for me....you can only mess with the "broken wires" inside before some of the finer stuff gets damaged which is almost impossible to repair.
I'm surprised BBA even touched it after being opened, most won't.

And yes, you do need the car for coding, VIN and mileage and whatnot is only part of it, there is a calibration process that needs done as well which definitely requires the car itself (steering angle, etc).

The fact that the speedo isn't working in MPO's case is either still a bad module, or wheel speed sensor....the rest (DSC light) may work itself out once properly coded/calibrated. Getting the error codes read from the DSC module would certainly help in troubleshooting.

[m5hoot]

Everything you said is "spot on". You got the big picture-too bad the name change bought ATE a second chance to mess people up. It is my belief that they *MAY* want to get it right, but whatever they bought or built in the way of testing equipment simply is not accurate. They pass too many BAD modules as good. I talked at length with BBA about their test stand and found out that they hook (iirc) your module to a dc motor and the module will control voltage to their motor and they send commands to the module with a motor load hooked-up which they then monitor for motor to change speeds, torque, etc. This is just the last of three tests. As I said, the owner of ATE told me that at first, he talked to the tech that supposedly worked on my module the first time and by going by his notes about my module, the repair went as it was supposed to and the module passed their "rigorous tests". Second pass, the owner took to a different tech who said my module was intermittent which is why it would pass and still be no good. He told the owner he positively "got it" and no issues. Said they pounded it with hot air from a hair dryer and made sure there were no heat-related intermittents. The third time the boss fixed personally despite it testing as *good* upon receipt. He added redundants, etc. That the boss fixed it himself is certainly the kiss of death. I took the old module apart myself and was the source of a lot of additional posts on the "fest" about removing the "snot-like" goo that protects those uber-fine gold wires in there and the knowledge that a conventional solder repair was all but impossible, fine wires are more like "spot welded" in place. There is absolutely no reason for Bosch to use such fine wires as space was not an issue, but BMW was obviously dictating to Bosch that they did not want this ABS module to be re-built. It would not need to be re-built if Bosch had used heavier gauge wires that would not be affected by heat and vibration. The *goo* is put on last to additionally thwart repair. Removing the goo will often tear the frog-whisker gold wires right off. Good luck re-attaching! The end of my story is that I had two issues-one may have caused the other. When I got my new module in and programmed, I was then able to isolate a bad RF wheel sensor as well. I believe the speed sensor may have caused that channel in the ABS to fail. Just a guess.


PS: As I think more about this old issue.... I replaced an ABS module on my realtor's car and with a new module and all speed sensors known to be good, the module would not accept being coded because over time (front-end alignments, steer angle sensor rotating on arm) the values the old module "liked" for seeing a full left hand turn steer angle sensor output had been compensated for. The steer angle lock-to-lock was being interpreted by the new module as +533 counts one way and with steering wheel turned full the other way, the module was reading like -468 counts(going just from memory, don't quote me). A properly calibrated module to the steer angle sensor would output +500 counts one way and -500 counts the other way or closer to it. So, if you old module was correcting for this and the null point is too far off, the new module will not calibrate until this second step is performed. On cars that are not far off to start with, the module will accept the re-code of the new module straight-away and not require this additional calibrate step. My realtor's car had been in a relatively minor front end collision and the front end was either re-aligned to compensate or the steer angle sensor rotated on the arm. In any case, if steer angle is too far out, that step must be performed before all 3 lights in the dash will extinguish. I guess in a crude way to make a parallel, it would be like your car tracking straight down the road (not pulling either way) except the steering wheel is at 10 o'clock rather than at 12 o'clock position like it should be. You remove the steering wheel and re-position it at 12 o'clock to make it "feel better". If you then turn steering wheel full one way compared to full the other way, you might get 2 3/4 turns one way and 3 1/4 turns the opposite way. The steer angle sensor would not be putting out +500/ -500 until you got car re-aligned and then steering wheel would also have to be "re-coded" (put back right again).

[007008]

The only coding needed is to change the setting to your car type and calibrate the steering angle sensor.

The 3rd line "CODIERWERT_DSC5.7
wert_??"
I just put a DSC from a 02 M5 into a 01 740iL. NCS to change the setting and INPA for the steering angle.
If you get a used one from the same model car (chassis and engine) just the steering has to be done.

[KevinMullins]

NCS to change the setting and INPA for the steering angle.
If you get a used one from the same model car (chassis and engine) just the steering has to be done.

For functionality, yes. For 100% matched to the specific vehicle, no.
Since you were using NCS anyways, why didn't you just code the whole module in one shot so the VIN, mileage, etc were transferred as well?

[mpo]

Let me summarize since the thread is getting long:

The original module in the car had the trifecta lights but no other symptom. Speedo worked fine. I did the sensor test with a multimeter from the connector (I am an Electrical Engineer...). The sensors all passed that test so I concluded it was a bad module.

I now have a guaranteed rebuilt unit from BBA Reman. The Bosch number is the same but the BMW number is different so it is probably from a different model (I guess).

With it installed and not coded, two lights went out but the triangle light is still on (I was told to expect that). However speedo no longer works. Worked fine before even with the bad module. I have been told by one person that if the replacement module is from a different car then this could occur. I now have NCS and Inpa. Do I need to run both or just one?

Any other wisdom for me?

[007008]

For functionality, yes. For 100% matched to the specific vehicle, no. Since you were using NCS anyways, why didn't you just code the whole module in one shot so the VIN, mileage, etc were transferred as well?

There is no vin or mileage storage in the DSC. At least not that I've ever seen.

[m5hoot]

From what I have been told, mileage is not the issue for the Bosch. Matters not how many miles on car, but what the ABS needs to know is "what kinda car am I setting-up for" as the same module can be used on a sport, non-sport, 6 cylinder, 8 cylinder, etc. for weight distribution of vehicle, braking difference, vehicle weight....all the things that are tuned by BMW differently for our various models. One configuration does not work for all models. With the vin known by the ABS, it applies the correct braking force to maintain vehicle stability in bad stability situation where the car takes over the braking to keep the car nose forward. There may also be tire size differences such that if the module does not know the tire diameter, it can't output a speed to the ECU. I can easily see where not being coded (just the new module) could prevent speedo operation even if bad module worked as it still retained function in that part of the module. Many inputs and outputs to and from the Bosch. If it does not know exactly what kind of car it is working on, it can't send proper stability (braking) commands. Don't sweat BMW part numbers if the component part number is the same. BMW and their money-hungry engineers made sourcing parts from different years and models less likely by just changing their part number to scare off DIY'ers. A prime example is the MID for radio. If the mid to be used has the exact same button configuration as yours, any part number MID will work. BMW actually added a spacer in the connector for the mid to make one think the mid they may have bought won't work (some MID connectors are black and some are white). If you look closely, you will see they added an extra connector "spacer" to the MID connector to make people who buy a MID from say an X5 think it will not hook-up. You simply remove this connector spacer/adapter and throw it away and then your pigtail will fit just fine. BMW has like 9 different part numbers for the exact same MID! They just added a BS adapter to make one think another MID won't work. I have bought several for a steal as the person who bought it swore it would not work in their car, despite faceplate buttons being identical. That's a freebie to any holding a MID they bought off someone with good pixels only to find their pigtail won't mate with the other MID. Remove the little part of the connector that was added by BMW and your MID will then plug in-guaranteed as long as the buttons on old MID are the same buttons as the one you bought. I digress....

[ramitchell]

Let me summarize since the thread is getting long:

The original module in the car had the trifecta lights but no other symptom. Speedo worked fine. I did the sensor test with a multimeter from the connector (I am an Electrical Engineer...). The sensors all passed that test so I concluded it was a bad module.

I now have a guaranteed rebuilt unit from BBA Reman. The Bosch number is the same but the BMW number is different so it is probably from a different model (I guess).

With it installed and not coded, two lights went out but the triangle light is still on (I was told to expect that). However speedo no longer works. Worked fine before even with the bad module. I have been told by one person that if the replacement module is from a different car then this could occur. I now have NCS and Inpa. Do I need to run both or just one?

Any other wisdom for me?

Hi MPO: Just saw your original post so it may be too late for this but perhaps it will help out in the future. I sent my module out to Module Master (modulemaster.com) for a rebuild as I had the same three lights. I know they are more expensive than others (about $350) but the dealer quoted $1800 ($1400 for the part and $400 for "installation" (yea....5 min) and coding ). The car was driveable w/o the module although it did have a few quirks along with no speedo. However, since they rebuilt the original unit, no need for any coding. I just installed the part and everything was back to normal. They also include 5 year non-transferrable warranty.

[m5hoot]

Looks like I am the 1 millionth person with a bad 5.7 module...

I sent to Automotive Scientific (ate1234) in Tennessee for rebuild and they kept it 2 weeks then sent it back still broken, so now I am without the module for 3 1/2 weeks so far. They didn't bother to tell me of course and no refund either, some guarantee.

I understand that if I buy a new or used one it will need "coding" and that will cost $100 (which is probably 200 "Seattle Dollars", since BMW dealers use a different monetary system out here)

My questions are these:

Do they have to have the car to program the module? I am guessing yes.

Can I buy any used 5.7 module from any car (Audi, etc) and they can recode it? The number on mine is 295 950 002. I see some for sale that end with 054, 055, 001. The 001 is the one they sell on Amazon for $420

Can I code it myself with a OBD Diagnostic cable with INPA Ediabas Ncs Expert, etc?

If I get the same 295 950 002 would I even have to code it?

If I get one from the exact same year and model would I have to code it?

Thanks

Get it coded as the point is moot. All modules need coding as they must have the car's vin# to know what it is. Can't explain how previous post got his to work w/o coding, but I'm not going to go there. Get it coded and all will be fine.

[pshovest]

...............With it installed and not coded, two lights went out but the triangle light is still on (I was told to expect that). However speedo no longer works. Worked fine before even with the bad module. I have been told by one person that if the replacement module is from a different car then this could occur. I now have NCS and Inpa. Do I need to run both or just one?..........

"DSC only" light typically means the steering angle sensor needs calibration. But it could be the module came from an E39 with a different transmission or several other less likely issues. INPA can calibrate Steering Angle Sensor. Coding is required if problem is "CAN bus error".
In my experience with installing a used, previously coded (but NOT coded for my e39) module, speedo should work even with SAS and CAN bus errors.
You need to check for codes with INPA before anything else.
From Memory.....Select E39==> Chassis==> ABS5 ASC5 DSC5 DSC3, Select Error
Under live data you should be able to see wheel speeds to verify all wheel sensors are working.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...9#post23393159

[KevinMullins]

I now have NCS and Inpa. Do I need to run both or just one?

What version of INPA do you have running? (should say at the top or with the INFO button)
If v3 look under "Special Functions" for the E46 Steering Angle Sensor Calibration (it'll work on the E39)

Use NCS for the "coding" portion.
pshovest did a great writeup for that, look at his post for the link.

[mpo]

I posted in your other thread as well.
I can code your module for you, just get a hole of me. No need to drop off the car, you can come in and wait while I do it.

Mr. DUDMD is going to give it a try today. Hopefully that will be the end of the problem!

- - - Updated - - -

DUDMD got it coded no problem. Nice! Thanks for the help.

[KevinMullins]

DUDMD got it coded no problem. Nice! Thanks for the help.

So all is good? No dash lights? Speedo working?