Broadway Static by fortune auto coilovers

[stevenC330ci]

Think about getting Broadway Static by fortune auto coilovers for my e46. What do you guys think about this suspension?

[stancyeze]

Think about getting Broadway Static by fortune auto coilovers for my e46. What do you guys think about this suspension?

Great group of guys working there. They're a lot of help, also a great suspension. Been running on them for about a year now and haven't had any problems.

[RVAE34]

I love my Fortune's. They built the prototype touring kit using my car. They also do in house repair/warranty. Products and service are top notch.

[GGray]

Be careful with spring rates.... Someone had issues with their car "bouncing all over the place" they had some ridiculous spring rates on the car from the Broadway Static/Fortune guys. Higher than what we spec on a pure gutted race car.... Street car E46 you do not need much over 8-10k front, 10-12k rear. 2k split front to rear.

Look at ISC... I have them on my E46 touring I flog on track. Zero issues...

[JP BMW]

I have 15/16k Broadways on my e36 and it isn't bouncy at all. The only reason people are getting bouncy rides is they are preloading the springs too much.

[GGray]

I have 15/16k Broadways on my e36 and it isn't bouncy at all. The only reason people are getting bouncy rides is they are preloading the springs too much.

That is a ridiculous spring rate for a street car...

To put it in a rate that is easy to understand
15k is 840 pounds
16k is 896 pounds

Typically to set an E36/46 up properly you need a 2k split front to rear not 1k split. Which is why we spec our ISC kits with a 2k split, or any of the MCS, JRZ or even Ground Control with a 100-150 pound split.

15k/16k is higher than a lot of gutted club race cars run.. Even with full interior that is a ridiculous rate. My guess is they do it to keep the car from moving much for the stance crowd...

[M3Alpine99]

I have 15/16k Broadways on my e36 and it isn't bouncy at all. The only reason people are getting bouncy rides is they are preloading the springs too much.

Those rates I have a hard time believing it isn't bouncy 'at all'.

[JP BMW]

That is a ridiculous spring rate for a street car...

To put it in a rate that is easy to understand
15k is 840 pounds
16k is 896 pounds

Typically to set an E36/46 up properly you need a 2k split front to rear not 1k split. Which is why we spec our ISC kits with a 2k split, or any of the MCS, JRZ or even Ground Control with a 100-150 pound split.

15k/16k is higher than a lot of gutted club race cars run.. Even with full interior that is a ridiculous rate. My guess is they do it to keep the car from moving much for the stance crowd...

I agree that the split is not optimal but I bought them used this way. Trm coilovers run 12/16k for their performance setup. The springs are very stiff for stance and going very low and that is who the coilover is made for. They are meant to be run low and I am running mine at the highest height I feel comfortable with and it is still very low. I do have a pretty high tolerance for stiff cars and I also run 75d akg bushings all in the rear and treehouse fcabs.

Those rates I have a hard time believing it isn't bouncy 'at all'.

The only time I would say it is bouncy is below 20mph over very bumpy roads. At speed the car is not uncomfortable at all and actually feels softer than my friends car with h&r race springs and bilstiens.

They will provide any spring rate you want and I high recommend them

[Jaze]

Be careful with spring rates.... Someone had issues with their car "bouncing all over the place" they had some ridiculous spring rates on the car from the Broadway Static/Fortune guys. Higher than what we spec on a pure gutted race car.... Street car E46 you do not need much over 8-10k front, 10-12k rear. 2k split front to rear.

Look at ISC... I have them on my E46 touring I flog on track. Zero issues...

Actually, any 15/16k coilovers were ordered that way by a customer. We recommend at least a 2k split, a simple glance at our website reveals that.

99% of cases of bounce are because the rear springs are pre loaded too much. Once that is explained, the "thank you, I love my suspension" email is never too far behind. In the extreme case that is not the issue, we have revalved and changed rates for the customer at no cost. This has happened a max of 3 times in the years we have been in business. I think that's a pretty high success rating.

As you may know, there is no set path to go fast. Some people go fast with soft rates, and some people go fast with stiff springs. Many guys in the track section use similar rates, even rates f/r, or super soft from every shock mfg in the world. What works for you, isn't set in stone as the only path...same as what is fast for me.

My 16/21k set up with no sway bars works phenomenally for my car, and similar set ups have also worked phenomenally on customer cars. We also do a lot of 12/16k set ups which are more for "street" cars but still follow our preference of higher spring rates.

That is a ridiculous spring rate for a street car...

To put it in a rate that is easy to understand
15k is 840 pounds
16k is 896 pounds

Typically to set an E36/46 up properly you need a 2k split front to rear not 1k split. Which is why we spec our ISC kits with a 2k split, or any of the MCS, JRZ or even Ground Control with a 100-150 pound split.

15k/16k is higher than a lot of gutted club race cars run.. Even with full interior that is a ridiculous rate. My guess is they do it to keep the car from moving much for the stance crowd...

I agree with at least a 2k split, I just think you have heard some misinformation because that has been a formula always in place here unless specified by a customer.

The rates are simply that high because I prefer to set cars up that way, and so do my customers. We do plenty of the regular 8/10k and 10/12k too, but when someone comes to me for my professional opinion and wants to go fast or low (99.9% of my business) high rates are my go to, and I am not alone on that one. I don't force it on anyone, and I am very thorough at explaining the positives and negatives when consulted. Calling them ridiculous is a bit derogatory IMO considering how many guys run these rates and higher on MCS, JRZ etc.

Those rates I have a hard time believing it isn't bouncy 'at all'.

IMO no suspension rides like a Cadillac at all times, you just have to get it in to the wrong scenario. That's why i consult with all my customers who want a custom set up, so we can figure out a spec based on what they encounter daily, that minimizes the bad times.

I agree that the split is not optimal but I bought them used this way. Trm coilovers run 12/16k for their performance setup. The springs are very stiff for stance and going very low and that is who the coilover is made for. They are meant to be run low and I am running mine at the highest height I feel comfortable with and it is still very low. I do have a pretty high tolerance for stiff cars and I also run 75d akg bushings all in the rear and treehouse fcabs.


The only time I would say it is bouncy is below 20mph over very bumpy roads. At speed the car is not uncomfortable at all and actually feels softer than my friends car with h&r race springs and bilstiens.

They will provide any spring rate you want and I high recommend them

Thank you for the kind words! We are really proud of our shocks and I'm thrilled you like them. I wish more people would try a product before speculating but such is life.

[GGray]

Unfortunately what I stated was not derogatory, and yes that rate for a street car is to high and will not be "fast" anywhere but on a smooth race track with the car set up properly... Slaming, aka: stanced cars, are not "fast". An entirely new dynamic comes into play when a car is running as low as the car in your SIG. Take that to a track and run it against a properly set up track car you will find out very quickly it is not the "fast" set up.

When an E30,36, or 46, is run that low on track, or the street, you get horrendous bump steer from the geometry change primarily in front due to the camber curve on the McPherson strut design. We make, and other vendors make, bump correction kits for track/race cars to correct the camber curve change from running the lower control arms and tie rods level or above level. Google "E30M3 DTM front suspension" you will immediately see how much BMW Motrosports did to eliminate the bump steer on the DTM cars running super low for pure aerodynamic reasons.

Comparing what people run on a true race damper like an MCS, JRZ, or Ohlins on a race car is a little silly. Broadway Static, and ISC, both are nowhere close to the level of quality or performance. They are good but not a true race damper. And I have ISC's on my car currently and they work great for the money.

I am at the track a lot instructing, or racing.. Rarely do you see cars slammed like a stanced out car sits... If I have a student with a car that low I explain to them why on track it does not work well.

You can run stanced out super low... it will not be fast...
or
You can run set up for the track, which will be fast, but not super low...

Does it look cool... Yes... is it fast no...

To give you an example.... My track buddy's all claim my wagon is "stanced out" which it is a little to low for track but I just deal with it not being optimal since it is my street car primarily..

[Jaze]

Unfortunately what I stated was not derogatory, and yes that rate for a street car is to high and will not be "fast" anywhere but on a smooth race track with the car set up properly... Slaming, aka: stanced cars, are not "fast". An entirely new dynamic comes into play when a car is running as low as the car in your SIG. Take that to a track and run it against a properly set up track car you will find out very quickly it is not the "fast" set up.

When an E30,36, or 46, is run that low on track, or the street, you get horrendous bump steer from the geometry change primarily in front due to the camber curve on the McPherson strut design. We make, and other vendors make, bump correction kits for track/race cars to correct the camber curve change from running the lower control arms and tie rods level or above level. Google "E30M3 DTM front suspension" you will immediately see how much BMW Motrosports did to eliminate the bump steer on the DTM cars running super low for pure aerodynamic reasons.

Comparing what people run on a true race damper like an MCS, JRZ, or Ohlins on a race car is a little silly. Broadway Static, and ISC, both are nowhere close to the level of quality or performance. They are good but not a true race damper. And I have ISC's on my car currently and they work great for the money.

I am at the track a lot instructing, or racing.. Rarely do you see cars slammed like a stanced out car sits... If I have a student with a car that low I explain to them why on track it does not work well.

You can run stanced out super low... it will not be fast...
or
You can run set up for the track, which will be fast, but not super low...

Does it look cool... Yes... is it fast no...

There is an incredible amount of misinformation in your posts. I respect your knowledge of suspension, as i see you help out a lot of gentlemen on here so, forgive me if I am taking it wrong because you are coming off patronizing to me. I am quite aware that a slammed stock M3 will not be fast on the track for various reasons, and never have i suggested that. The car in my sig is over 6 years old and merely a street car at the time. Anyone who knows me or of me...knows that even that car in the sig was a monster by the time it was finished. I know a lot about roll centers, bump steer etc. as I produce a kit to correct the curves for e30-e46 as well, using all aurora everything and hand machined in the USA for about 4 years now. I don't know where you got the impression I was uneducated .

I'm OK with you not liking my personal preference of higher spring rates and no sway bars. I have plenty of customers that do not either, that is why we do the kind of customization we do. I am not ok with you commenting on my shocks performance without any knowledge of them and somehow lumping it in with isc (but god forbid JRZ MCS). Our street and race shocks are second to none, and I have data to prove it if you would like to discuss it privately since I am not a vendor. So if you would like to stop not only assuming but spreading your incorrect assumptions, I would be glad to show you why i feel as passionate as I do about my product. I am very disappointed in a person like you, with so many years of experience under their belt to be so quick to publicly throw a young hard worker, doing quality work under the bus for no reason.

[GGray]

There is an incredible amount of misinformation in your posts. I respect your knowledge of suspension, as i see you help out a lot of gentlemen on here so, forgive me if I am taking it wrong because you are coming off patronizing to me. I am quite aware that a slammed stock M3 will not be fast on the track for various reasons, and never have i suggested that. The car in my sig is over 6 years old and merely a street car at the time. Anyone who knows me or of me...knows that even that car in the sig was a monster by the time it was finished. I know a lot about roll centers, bump steer etc. as I produce a kit to correct the curves for e30-e46 as well, using all aurora everything and hand machined in the USA for about 4 years now. I don't know where you got the impression I was uneducated .

I'm OK with you not liking my personal preference of higher spring rates and no sway bars. I have plenty of customers that do not either, that is why we do the kind of customization we do. I am not ok with you commenting on my shocks performance without any knowledge of them and somehow lumping it in with isc (but god forbid JRZ MCS). Our street and race shocks are second to none, and I have data to prove it if you would like to discuss it privately since I am not a vendor. So if you would like to stop not only assuming but spreading your incorrect assumptions, I would be glad to show you why i feel as passionate as I do about my product. I am very disappointed in a person like you, with so many years of experience under their belt to be so quick to publicly throw a young hard worker, doing quality work under the bus for no reason.

Actually I was not [I]"throwing you under the bus... No clue why you seem to be so defensive about information...

You made the statements about how "fast" your cars were... See posts above...

I believe if you go above, you also lumped your dampers, no one calls them shocks, technically they are dampers, in the same realm as JRZ/MCS when you compared running high springs rates... And I know about your dampers...

There is not an incredible amount of misinformation in my posts" I suggest you stop attempting to turn around information with pointed derogatory comments with no merit, comments like that are completely unprofessional. ANY information I am posting I can verify is correct.

I sell and help people set up all types of suspension on BMW's, daily drivers, street hot rods, track and race cars. My knowledge base is not only from BMW's...

[Jaze]

Actually I was not [I]"throwing you under the bus... No clue why you seem to be so defensive about information...

You made the statements about how "fast" your cars were... See posts above...

I believe if you go above, you also lumped your dampers, no one calls them shocks, technically they are dampers, in the same realm as JRZ/MCS when you compared running high springs rates... And I know about your dampers...

There is not an incredible amount of misinformation in my posts" I suggest you stop attempting to turn around information with pointed derogatory comments with no merit, comments like that are completely unprofessional. ANY information I am posting I can verify is correct.

I sell and help people set up all types of suspension on BMW's, daily drivers, street hot rods, track and race cars. My knowledge base is not only from BMW's...

You are everywhere and missing my point. You are not being truthful about knowing about how my custom dampers compare to any others because I know for a fact you have no interaction with them or myself and that is not fair. I am still willing to give you an in depth look, so you can make an informed statement, if you wish. We can talk suspension tuning all day, drop me an email.

I can also call them shocks if i want to

[GGray]

You are everywhere and missing my point. You are not being truthful about knowing about how my custom dampers compare to any others because I know for a fact you have no interaction with them or myself and that is not fair. I am still willing to give you an in depth look, so you can make an informed statement, if you wish. We can talk suspension tuning all day, drop me an email.

I can also call them shocks if i want to

Good grief... I am not "everywhere " nor am i "missing your point" .... Are you reading my posts??? I have maintained the same stance, (no pun intended) from the beginning.. You however have been all over the place with your random comments about your product, your specs, etc.. You made the statement about making a car "low and fast..." feel free to scroll up and read you post.... Then a few posts later go on about how you know all about camber curves and bump steer... Which directly contradicts your previous statement about making a car low and fast... You have absolutely ZERO on your web site regarding any custom arms you claim to be making, only one blurb with no information.... See your own site, link below... LOTS of stanced out cars in the gallery no race cars or track cars.... I also remember when the product was released aimed directly at the stance crowd.. So are you now claiming you are not...

Direct from your web site;

Broadway Static was founded in 2012 with a goal of providing the best
suspension set up for cars looking to push the limit of static
suspension.

http://www.broadwaystaticsuspension.com/

You do understand "static suspension" descries non moving...

Definition of Static:
stat·ic
ˈstadik/
adjective
adjective: static

1.
lacking in movement, action, or change, especially in a way viewed as undesirable or uninteresting.



When you claim to be an expert you need to use the vernacular that is correct.. You sell mid range dampers... A shock is what you put on a ford or chevy truck... But feel free to use the incorrect verbage...

AND assembling parts from an outside source that you do not manufacture... Is not Made in USA.. It is assembled in USA... You can get in deep trouble with the feds if you claim made, or built, in the USA and they are not... I know that from the industry I was in for 20 years when a company was busted by the feds...

With 30 years of working on, building, setting up, driving, tracking, and racing, nothing but German cars (BMW, Porsche, VW GTi's), minus a few Miata's I autocrossed and built for people, I know what I am talking about... So we can skip the email, contact not needed...



At this point we can agree to disagree... and move on....

[Jaze]

I think you are right about agreeing to disagree and moving on. You are still patronizing me and still talking in circles about my like for stance and what static means. My website is old and needs an update, the fact that you are convinced we only do stance stuff proves my point that you have zero experience with me or my product despite your "30 years" of setting up cars. All I ask is that you only speak on things that you have experience with.

NEVER have I claimed a product is made in the USA when it is not... once again, not being truthful.

PS the definition of damper is shock absorber, check dictionary.com. I can affectionately call them shocks if I want to.

[GGray]

I think you are right about agreeing to disagree and moving on. You are still patronizing me and still talking in circles about my like for stance and what static means. My website is old and needs an update, the fact that you are convinced we only do stance stuff proves my point that you have zero experience with me or my product despite your "30 years" of setting up cars.

NEVER have I claimed a product is made in the USA when it is not... once again, not being truthful.

PS the definition of damper is shock absorber, check dictionary.com. I can affectionately call them shocks if I want to.

I never see anyone, or hear about anyone, at any track I go to with your suspension. I go all over the south east...

Damper....

No big deal.. I like a heated discussion now and then... In the end we both serve enthusiast...

[Jaze]

I never see anyone, or hear about anyone, at any track I go to with your suspension. I go all over the south east...

Damper....

No big deal.. I like a heated discussion now and then... In the end we both serve enthusiast...

Still a young brand, and have a lot of branching out to do.

Tomato...tomah-toh. I hope we can still learn from each other in the future, and continue to serve the enthusiasts together. A nice (heated) discussion is what sparks innovation!

I'm gonna go change my sig now, to aviod confusion haha.

[propcar]

In the interest of curiosity and returning to a more focused base conversation, is Broadway Static as a brand doing more performance oriented stuff? Or is it Fortune Auto? I thought BS was just for the low crowd?

[Jaze]

In the interest of curiosity and returning to a more focused base conversation, is Broadway Static as a brand doing more performance oriented stuff? Or is it Fortune Auto? I thought BS was just for the low crowd?

We are definitely doing more performance oriented suspension set ups, it is becoming the majority of our business quickly and that is exciting because it allows us to really push envelopes. We still love the low stuff, and always will but there is nothing like euphoria of speed.

[M3Alpine99]

Can you explain what is being 'changed' that is going more performance oriented? I am not familiar with Broadway Static except it apparently is made by Fortune Auto. And to the eye test they are the generic made in Taiwan suspension/coilover setup. Can talk about the quality and 'performance' versions but 1600 with swift springs with camber plates? That is a far cry. A set of Bilstein Sports for an E36 is half that.

I just don't see and have not heard directly, except for those running Fortune Auto in Time Trial, that the Fortunte/Broadway/BC/Etc are any different than any other set of the 1000-1200 coilover kit.

[Jaze]

Can you explain what is being 'changed' that is going more performance oriented? I am not familiar with Broadway Static except it apparently is made by Fortune Auto. And to the eye test they are the generic made in Taiwan suspension/coilover setup. Can talk about the quality and 'performance' versions but 1600 with swift springs with camber plates? That is a far cry. A set of Bilstein Sports for an E36 is half that.

I just don't see and have not heard directly, except for those running Fortune Auto in Time Trial, that the Fortunte/Broadway/BC/Etc are any different than any other set of the 1000-1200 coilover kit.

That generic taiwan look you refer to, is actually a feature I and many others quite love. Adjusting height, independently of the pre load of the spring is just a superior design IMO by retaining full stroke no matter the ride height. It has been referred to as an asian coilover thing on here but that style actually comes from Penske going back as far as I remember.

To be fair, 1600 is with Swift springs which is an upgrade. My entry level coilovers cost 1399.99 and i think that is a bargain, just ask anyone who owns a set if they are the same or even comparable as any of the brands you mentioned. I wouldn't be in business if they had the same product for less. They simply cost more than a Bilstein Sport because they perform better and have more features, which is the same reason any other product should cost more than another. I am more than happy to post some shock dynos or any other analysis, if it is allowed with my status, so that you or anyone may come to their own conclusion. I am also willing to dyno, disassemble and reassemble any shock of your choice free of charge, for a direct comparison in ANY price bracket and i believe you will be pleasantly surprised at how even the entry level shocks stack up, let alone our performance based shocks. IMO, just our dual digressive shock pistons (designed in house) is worth the extra few bucks. That is a feature commonly found in higher end dampers, almost never in a damper at our price bracket (including the bilstein you mentioned.) To be fair, that is not a fair comparison for bilstein. I would compare it with anything pss10 or higher in their pecking order. I am quite familiar with bilstein, I use some of their components for my own products.

I can go on for days about how our warranty is 5x longer than the other "Taiwan coilovers", about how we hand build them in VA, the class/track records and reputation Fortune holds at national time attack/ trial events (including the most recent super lap battle), our customer service, our level of customization available, and most importantly..familiarity with our BMW chassis. I have never dealt with any other car in a professional capacity until about a year ago, and my customers get great consultations directly from the MFG (us) because of this. A quick google search will be clear as day that FA based shocks are regarded as superior to most if not all "taiwanese" brands, for reasons I have listed above (among many others).

You've been on my case for years alston, even before i formed Broadway. I hope one day, we can get over this. I certainly am. If you give me a fair shake, i guarantee you will love what we are doing.

[GGray]

Actually Ohlins is who did them first with the independent damper/spring pre load...

[Jaze]

Actually Ohlins is who did them first with the independent damper/spring pre load...

Good information. I only have experience with newer ohlins stuff, like the road and track but I have heard it said. Penske until this point has been the oldest I have come in contact with that style, I hope to see an ohlins assembly predating those penske I have. Would be an awesome addition to my collection.

[e39hamann]

I can definitely attest to Broadway's being a quality setup. I've had them on my car for over a year and 10,000 miles and still love them! I had Bilstein PSS coils before and I was very disappointed in how they rode, which is why I got Broadways in the first place (my car was also 2 inches higher on the Bilsteins than it is with the Broadways). I have 12k/10k spring rates (stock springs, not swift) on my e39 and it rides very nicely. My dad who is 62 and has had 5 back operations even drove my car last week and said he didn't mind the ride.

Also I can guarantee companies like BC etc. don't have the level of custom service that Broadway has, they're very professional and really want to make sure you get exactly what you need.

[M3Alpine99]

I am not on your case. I don't care what you sell or do. Honestly.

I was just wondering. I see a photo of them and see BC Private Label. It looks like every "eBay"(I am using this word just as a generic piece not that your coilovers are cheap junk). The same camber plates, the same lower design. Same adjusters. Etc. So for me it is trying to understand how it's 100% visually the same but internally there is some 'magic' going on. I have not personally tried them so I can't say that my opinion is based on facts. Only the exterior look is the same.

Carry on.