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Thread: My New Project: LS/T56 swap into a 2003 E39 M5

  1. #76
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    357is (e30 w/LS1)
    Great work as usual! Really like your engine mounts - a lot like ones for an R2800!



    E30-LS1 Swap Guide and Kits, email us at e30ls1@gmail.com !!! or check our website e30ls1.wordpress.com

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1NAWTY5 View Post
    Any updates on this?
    No updates on the exhaust.
    Unfortunately, my hard drive crashed so I lost a lot of information I needed for this build including my header design notes and measurements. I also lost my build pics, wiring schematics, part numbers for parts I still need to purchase, as well as the A/C control and oil temp sensing CAN-BUS code. I've spent the last few days trying to retrieve the info without much success. Between that, hosting family for the holiday, and proposing to the girlfriend , there has been little time left for the car.
    Quote Originally Posted by garretvs View Post
    Great work as usual! Really like your engine mounts - a lot like ones for an R2800!
    I had to look up R2800; neat!


    The engine block I'm using for the 427 build is a gen IV block therefore, it doesn't have provisions for gen III knock sensors which my current ECU requires. From what I'm reading, most people drill and tap the sides of the block to accept the gen III knock sensors. The tune must also be adjusted to account for the relocated sensor. This is not something I'm comfortable doing so I started looking into Gen IV ECUs, specifically the E38 and E67 ECUs. A gen IV ECU would also help control my new alt which requires pwm control. After some research it looks like it should be relatively straight forward to switch from my current ECU (411) to an E38 ECU so I ordered a used one this afternoon. It is out of a 2010 Camaro SS with manual transmission so I don't think I will have to mess with the OS.

    Changing the wiring harness should be pretty easy; I just need to delete some wires (TPS, IACV), add others (knock sensors, DBW throttle and pedal), and change the ECU connectors. The E38 ECU uses Molex connectors which are readily available for purchase. I also need to re-evaluate A/C compressor control since the E38 ECU receives the A/C request signal via CAN-BUS. Luckily Thaniel and Lenny (Zr6SBC) have already tackled this and provided the info on their respective threads. The cooling fan wires won't need to be changed since the Camaro E38 ECU uses the same strategy to control dual fans as my current 411 ECU. Time to go geek out on wiring diagrams.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  3. #78
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    1998 540i
    I have been using Gen III knock sensors in a Gen IV block since my first e36 swap
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  4. #79
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    What changes did you make to the tune to account for the different knock sensor location? Or did you not make any changes?

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  5. #80
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    I used existing threaded bosses in the block and changed the sensitivity. The values are pretty easy to find. If you want I can dig up what is in my tune.
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  6. #81
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    Sure, I'd like to see what you have.
    I did read what others have done but didn't find anything describing the rationale behind changes.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  7. #82
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    All of this is the "Knock Sensor Global Gain" table.

    Stock LS1



    My Settings - LS2 Block



    Difference



    It has to do with the sensitivity of the sensors in their new location.
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  8. #83
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    Congrats on the engagement, Robert

    2001 BMW 560i 6.0 LSx/T56 SOLD


    2000 Corvette Hardtop FRC

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    No updates on the exhaust.
    Unfortunately, my hard drive crashed so I lost a lot of information I needed for this build including my header design notes and measurements. I also lost my build pics, wiring schematics, part numbers for parts I still need to purchase, as well as the A/C control and oil temp sensing CAN-BUS code. I've spent the last few days trying to retrieve the info without much success. Between that, hosting family for the holiday, and proposing to the girlfriend , there has been little time left for the car.
    .
    Damn I feel your pain on losing all your info from your hard drive as I just experienced that 2 weeks ago.

    Congrats on your engagement to your future wife
    Last edited by 1NAWTY5; 12-30-2014 at 01:12 AM.

    E39 LSX SWAP PARTS FORSALE


  10. #85
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    Might I suggest google drive for PC for your next set of super-duper important things?
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by rao View Post
    All of this is the "Knock Sensor Global Gain" table.

    Stock LS1



    It has to do with the sensitivity of the sensors in their new location.
    Thanks for the tables.
    Quote Originally Posted by nsogiba View Post
    Congrats on the engagement, Robert
    Quote Originally Posted by 1NAWTY5 View Post
    Damn I feel your pain on losing all your info from your hard drive as I just experienced that 2 weeks ago.

    Congrats on your engagement to your future wife
    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by James39 View Post
    Might I suggest google drive for PC for your next set of super-duper important things?
    I usually back up most of my files but got lazy this time around and learned my lesson. I'll look into Google drive.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  12. #87
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    Make absolutely certain that the pedal and TB are from the exact year as the harness or you'll run into problems.
    :: 1999 BMW 528iT ::
    LS3 / T56 swapped

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoRotate View Post
    Make absolutely certain that the pedal and TB are from the exact year as the harness or you'll run into problems.
    Yeah, I have read of people having issues mixing and matching parts. From what I can tell, the throttle body is shared among several models (camaro, corvette, G8) however, the pedal appears to be unique to the respective cars. The pedals do appear to have different connector pin assignments therefore, would not work; at least not without changing the pins assignment. The voltage vs. pedal position may also vary. I plan to see if I can use the M5 pedal.

    E38 ECU came yesterday and I was able to connect Hptuners to it to verify it was what I purchased. Thankfully it is from a 5th gen V8 camaro with manual trans therefore, I won't have to mess with the OS.
    Also started probing it for Can messages

    The setup; Beaglebone + can-cape running Can-utils on Debian Linux . Can-utils can be found on the link below for anyone interested (JimLev, see anything you recognize )
    https://gitorious.org/linux-can/can-...d221e58e8bb69:



    Here is part of the initial dump. It appears RPM is on 1EF. 7E0 followed by 7E8 appears when I make a change using HPtuners so I'm guessing those contain requests to the ECU and response from the ECU respectively.

    Last edited by Schitzo; 01-06-2015 at 03:23 PM.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  14. #89
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    Nice work
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  15. #90
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Yes, I do. The power supply and possibly a comparator circuit.
    I was wondering if I was going to have to send you the print again when your HD crashed. Looks like you built it.

    The LS1/E38 swap is going slow, I haven't been over there for weeks, don't like working on cars when it's friggin cold.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Yes, I do. The power supply and possibly a comparator circuit.
    I was wondering if I was going to have to send you the print again when your HD crashed. Looks like you built it.
    Yep, PS and the comparator circuit. The PS has been really helpful as a source for a clean/steady 5V. The comparator is almost done then I still have to test it to see if I built it right.....I'm still a newb at building small circuits. Luckily, I was able to retrieve the schematic from the email you sent me. You may need something similar for the E38.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev
    The LS1/E38 swap is going slow, I haven't been over there for weeks, don't like working on cars when it's friggin cold.
    I hear ya'...really kills the motivation to be in the garage.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post

    The LS1/E38 swap is going slow, I haven't been over there for weeks, don't like working on cars when it's friggin cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post


    I hear ya'...really kills the motivation to be in the garage.

    Generation Wimp
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  18. #93
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    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by rao View Post
    Generation Wimp
    LOL, I don't think so...probably have a decade on most of you guys here.
    Guess I've got accustom to my heated garage.

  19. #94
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    Fantastic project! Good luck with the rest!

  20. #95
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    sooooooooo you guys all thawed out up there?

    2001 BMW 560i 6.0 LSx/T56 SOLD


    2000 Corvette Hardtop FRC

  21. #96
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Yup, nice an 80ーF here today. Was over at the LS1/E38 swap garage today, didn't actually do anything to it, he just got an '03 540 M-sport to part out that I'm picking parts off of.
    After getting an M5 front bumper last fall I'll now have the M-sport rear bumper, the ///M door sills, in dash CD player so I can use the Aux input, etc.
    It's an auto, engine sounds good and will possibly be going into an E30.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsogiba View Post
    sooooooooo you guys all thawed out up there?
    Barely. It's in the 30s here this morning!

    I suppose an update is in order.

    Back in February we found and purchased a house so that took time away from working on the car. We found the house much sooner than we had expected; it was the 8th house we looked at. It met all our requirements so we put down an offer the day we saw it; the following day we reached an agreement with the sellers. The house is relatively new so the inspection was unremarkable. We closed at the end of March and moved in mid April. It has a finished 3 car garage so the larger working space is most welcome.

    With the house purchase it meant I needed to put the car back together so that it could be towed to the new place. In order to do so, I had to install both the front and rear subframes, install all the front suspension, and install and bleed the brakes. The LS swap took a backseat to these tasks. I finally had it towed on April the 24th. I also had to haul the S62 and M5 rear subframe and transmission to the new place; that sucked!

    Even with the winter and house purchase, I was still able to get a few swap related tasks completed.

    Engine build
    In early January, I took the engine block and rotating assembly to be machined and balance respectively. Amidst all this, I decided to reevaluate my camshaft selection. I had initially settled on, and purchased, a Katech torquer camshaft with 116 LSA and 0 overlap. It is considered mild when compared to other common LS7 camshafts. However, I felt it might still be aggressive for my liking. It also uses aggressive lobes so it tends to cause a noisy valvetrain. With all that, I decided to have a milder cam ground for me; it is basically a luke warm stock LS7 cam. I should receive it any day now at which point I値l start the engine assembly; I値l discuss the cam a little more at that time.

    Loaded the girl痴 car with parts headed to the machine shop. I used TPIS inc out of Chaska MN. They were great to work with.




    A/C
    Since I値l be selling my LS1 complete with the accessory drive, I needed a new setup for the new engine. I chose to go with the CTS-V FEADs this time around. That means I need to fabricate new A/C lines. What I didn't know prior to purchasing the drive setup is that the CTS-V A/C compressor uses fittings that are different from those used on F-body and corvette compressors. The CTS-V compressor is made by Denso as is the E39 M5 compressor. It is no wonder the fittings used on the M5 are very similar to those used on the CTS-V compressor. However, they are dimensionally different therefore, would not work; no surprise there.

    My options were to either buy CTSV-V A/C lines and modify them to work or have fittings machined for me. I opted for the latter. That said, I recently learned there is a company that makes A/C fittings for this compressor (see the links below).

    http://www.apairinc.com/shopping/pro...=129153&c=4340
    http://www.apairinc.com/shopping/pro...=129156&c=4340

    I drew up the fittings and had them CNC machined. I will then TIG weld the BMW steel lines into the female pilot on the fittings. More on that later.

    Fittings


    On the compressor


    In the car.


    Cooling.
    The M5 came with a brand new M5 radiator so I chose to use it instead of my previous setup that used a C5 corvette radiator and F-body fans. I will pair the M5 radiator with dual fans out of a Pontiac Grand AM. I have been using a similar setup on my DD 530i for almost 3 years now and it has worked great. I trust the fans + M5 radiator should be adequate to keep the new engine cool.

    I riveted tabs on the shroud that allow it to fit in the same tabs as the stock fan shroud. I have yet to cut holes for the fans.



    Exhaust
    The one big item I did not fabricate myself on the previous swap was the exhaust. I had a shop fabricate it for me and they ended up doing a shoddy job and charging me way too much for it. The exhaust hang too low and was a complete pain to take a part. It also promptly rusted since it was made from mild steel. This was despite having it painted with high temp exhaust paint. I didn't expect it to last very long but also didn't expect it to start rusting within days of having been fabricated. This time around I知 doing all the work myself and will be using 304 stainless.

    I have never fabricated an exhaust before so the learning curve is steep. I知 also learning just how much stainless tubing is a pain to work with. I initially used my portable band saw to cut the tubing but that was painfully slow and was very difficult to make a clean and straight cut.

    When I cut and join two tubes, I want the joint to be absolutely tight; not gaps whatsoever are permissible. This makes TIG welding the joint much easier. I noted it was easy to blow a hole when welding if there was a gap. Achieving a tight fit after cutting the tube with the band saw required quite a bit of clean up so I opted to purchase a chop saw. I found one locally and I must say it is much faster than the band saw. The joints are also much cleaner.

    I started by fabricating the X-pipe.
    Fit up; nice and tight.







    That痴 all for now.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  23. #98
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    Looking good!!!

    I'm surprised by your comparison of band saw versus chop saw for fabrication purposes... Seems kind of the opposite of what I usually read, and also kind of the opposite of my experience. Using a standard 4x6 band saw with a good blade, I think the cuts tend to demand a lot less cleanup than I experience when I use a 14" abrasive wheel chop saw.

    So, maybe this is because you might have been using your portaband hand-held as opposed to in a table setup? Also, maybe you got yourself a proper "cold saw" chop saw instead of a cheap ass, metal smearing 14" abrasive wheel cutoff saw like I use?

  24. #99
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    It's a semi-cold cut saw; no coolant but uses a carbide tipped blade.
    This is the band saw and table I use.

    It works great most of the time but it's a little more challenging to achieve what I want when cutting exhaust tubing. In order to ensure a perfect fit at the cut joint, I must cut it at 90 degrees to the tangent of the bend (or to the centerline for a straight section of tubing). Achieving this with the band saw is what is proving difficult and time consuming. With the chop saw, I can have a cut done in under a minute; the band saw takes up to 3 minutes. Mostly because I'm cutting slowly for the sake of accuracy.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  25. #100
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Nice work as usual Schitzo.
    If you get sick of MN, there is a house right across the street from me that is for sale.
    Just think of all the trouble we could get in.

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