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Thread: My New Project: LS/T56 swap into a 2003 E39 M5

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    My New Project: LS/T56 swap into a 2003 E39 M5

    This is my third LSx swap and the first I will attempt to document from start to finish. For those that remember, my previous project was an LS1/T56 swap into a 2000 528i. The details on that swap can be found on the link below, complete with broken photo links thanks to Imageshack
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...1489862-528-ls

    That 528i has since been parted out and the chassis sent to the salvage yard. It's probably a Kia now. Remind me never to part out a car again; what a pain!

    I parted out the 528i because the body had a lot battle scars. These included rust from the great Minnesota winter salt and damages sustained following an unfortunate and abrupt acquaintance with bambi on one foggy November night in 2010.


    Fast forward to early this year, a ‘03 M5 with a hurt S62 popped up for sale locally.

    The S62 timing chain felt the guides were too restrictive and decided it was time to break free. Amidst the quest for freedom, a valve or two may have introduced themselves to their respective pistons.
    The previous owner was not interested in fixing the engine and neither was I so the S62 had to be replaced. Cue the LS .

    Details
    Engine: LS 427.
    Engine ECU: E38 ECU from 2012 LS3 camaro
    Transmission: T56 Magnum XL. Ratios: 2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.00, 0.74, 0.50
    Shifter: MGW shifter for mustangs with GM Hurst shifter knob
    Differential: Ford 8.8 with 4.10:1 ratio (see the previous thread for details)
    Driveshaft: DSS 3.25" Carbon Fiber driveshaft with 1350 joints
    Suspension: Koni shocks + B&G springs for non-V8 E39s
    Headers: SS Tri-Y headers stepped from 1.875 to 2.000 to 3.000"
    Exhaust: Dual 3" with dual cats into C7 Corvette factory mufflers with NPP (vacuum actuated exhaust valve)
    Exhaust tips: 3.25" SS quad tips.


    Since I am switching from the T56 to T56 XL, I needed to fabricate new engine and trans mounts.
    This is necessary because my old mounts would place the XL too far back; the engine and trans need to move forward about 0.34” to position the shifter appropriately. I also need to raise the engine a bit to ensure max driveshaft-exhaust clearance (more on that later).

    I prefer to order my driveshaft before making the mounts. This way I can situate the entire driveline in the exact desired position and also check for potential interference under load before making the mounts. Final angles were 2.70 at the trans, 2.75 at the diff, and the driveshaft at 3.5. That gives a working angle of 0.8 at the trans and 0.75 at the diff. I’m ok with these angles.





    Shifter placement with the XL is spot on. However, I will have to enlarge the shifter hole a little bit to allow the shifter to be installed from inside the car.


    Mount almost ready for final welding
    The main tube is cut at 10 degrees on the motor mount plate end and coped at 50 degrees on the other end.
    For the 'feet', I holesawed a circular plate out of 3/16" plate then tiged it onto the tube.


    Once everything was set, I cooked the mounts. The foot has the top cut so that I can thread the nut by hand.




    Level says I’m level. Seeing that bubble right in the middle made me smile





    They are not necessary, but I may add some gussets onto the mounts as with my older mounts.
    Trans mount is next. Hope to fabricate that this weekend.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 07-02-2017 at 05:11 PM.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Good luck with this iteration, so far so good

    It looks like you are using an I6 front subframe?
    Last edited by rao; 11-06-2014 at 12:20 PM.
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  3. #3
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    Thanks
    Yes, I'm using the I6 front subframe.
    This allowed me to keep the suspension parts from the 528i which are pretty much new. Those from the M5 were completely shot.
    I also wanted to keep my current oil pan which wouldn't work with the M5 subframe.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  4. #4
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    Robert,
    I just wanted to say that although parting out that 528 was a pain for you, I really, really appreciate what you did. The interior worked out great for me, and you did a very thorough job. Nothing was broken which is quite a feat considering all the 15 year old plastic pieces involved. I hope this project goes great for you! I really admire the work you do in the space you have. Keep up the great work, you are a huge asset to this community. Thanks again,
    Jeremy

  5. #5
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    Schitzo, Good luck buddy. You're a maniac. I've been contemplating whether to replace my clutch over two years now. Maybe I'll start soon.

  6. #6
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    I thought the XL was only for Ford engines though. I originally looked into that but Tremec told me the splined shaft was different and therefore wouldn't mate to an LS. Given that was a few years ago and they may have come out with a GM variant.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    Thanks
    Yes, I'm using the I6 front subframe.
    This allowed me to keep the suspension parts from the 528i which are pretty much new. Those from the M5 were completely shot.
    I also wanted to keep my current oil pan which wouldn't work with the M5 subframe.

    Chicken

    Looks good

    Quote Originally Posted by RVAE34 View Post
    I thought the XL was only for Ford engines though. I originally looked into that but Tremec told me the splined shaft was different and therefore wouldn't mate to an LS. Given that was a few years ago and they may have come out with a GM variant.
    He has a special set up which he mentioned in another thread.
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  8. #8
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    Ah sweet!! I will need to read about that. My bubble was burst when I was first looking/inquiring about it. I figured the XL would be near perfect for proper shifter location (at least for the magnum).

  9. #9
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    From other thread
    Schitzo:
    "They (Liberty Gears) started with the Ford Mustang XL then installed a different input shaft and front plate.
    I do not know what input input shaft they used but apparently it is not same one from the regular LSx Magnum."

    E39 LSX SWAP PARTS FORSALE


  10. #10
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    Very cool, thanks!!

  11. #11
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    Excited to see it come together! Might as well put a blower on that thing while you're doing it...

  12. #12
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    Nice!
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

  13. #13
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    May I be the first to say blasphe///My! But these M5s are so much faster without a soul, or all the extra camshafts and such to lug around. If those M5ers give you a hard time about push rods tell them at least it has rack and pinion steering! I can empathize with parting out a car, I did that with a camaro parts car I bought for a past project. Not going to do that again.

    Nice project, looking forward to watching your build.
    2001 M5, 5.3 LSx/T56 swap with I6 subframe (rack and pinion steering):
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...th-I6-subframe

  14. #14
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    Looks great so far, I'll be following this one.

    Great work on the driveline - getting the driveshaft made before everything is "set in stone" is a great idea.

    Nice fab on the engine mounts and nice welds - I was planning to do pretty much the same exact thing in terms of design.
    Last edited by ckpitt55; 11-06-2014 at 07:35 PM.

  15. #15
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    Post some pics of the M5!!!1
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

  16. #16
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Robert, nice to see your making progress.
    The E38/LS1 swap is going slow. The 2 front mounts didn't fit right which was a big delay. The new mounts are now finished, we should be be bolting them in soon.
    Last edited by JimLev; 11-06-2014 at 10:38 PM.

  17. #17
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    I'm in for this build!!!
    2003 DINAN 5 | M54B30 | Titanium Gray Metallic | Stage 3 Engine Software | High Flow Throttle Body | Cold Air Intake | Free Flow Exhaust | Performance Automatic Transmission Software | Front Strut Brace | OE 18x9 BBS RS745 Style 42 on 265/35-18 MY BUILD THREAD: [Click]


  18. #18
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    I love this project. Truly the best of both worlds! Looking forward to a ton of pics :-)

  19. #19
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    Sweet. Can't wait to see what's next.
    :: 1999 BMW 528iT ::
    LS3 / T56 swapped

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Thanks all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Capo72 View Post
    Robert,
    I just wanted to say that although parting out that 528 was a pain for you, I really, really appreciate what you did. The interior worked out great for me, and you did a very thorough job. Nothing was broken which is quite a feat considering all the 15 year old plastic pieces involved. I hope this project goes great for you! I really admire the work you do in the space you have. Keep up the great work, you are a huge asset to this community. Thanks again,
    Jeremy
    Thanks for kind words Jeremy. I'm glad the interior worked out for you.
    The garage does get tight but that's not an excuse for me not to get this swap done. Our lease here ends in the spring so we just started house hunting. I'll miss being in downtown but a larger garage will be most welcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
    Schitzo, Good luck buddy. You're a maniac. I've been contemplating whether to replace my clutch over two years now. Maybe I'll start soon.
    Alex, careful hanging around these parts. A clutch swap may turn into an engine swap.
    Quote Originally Posted by rao View Post
    Chicken
    With the S62 gone, there isn't enough power to warrant the M5 subframe.

    Quote Originally Posted by byrden View Post
    May I be the first to say blasphe///My!
    What do you know about M5 soul snatching lol
    Btw.. thanks to Thaniel's work, I was able to get the oil temp gauge and LED lights working with the GM oil temp sensor. Will document that thoroughly in case you would like to do the same for your car.

    Quote Originally Posted by ckpitt55 View Post
    Looks great so far, I'll be following this one.

    Great work on the driveline - getting the driveshaft made before everything is "set in stone" is a great idea.

    Nice fab on the engine mounts and nice welds - I was planning to do pretty much the same exact thing in terms of design.
    Thanks Chuck.
    Having the driveshaft in place is very helpful. Really all that is needed to order a driveshaft is the length which you can determine well before fabricating the mounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by James39 View Post
    Post some pics of the M5!!!1
    Never really took pics of the car.
    I learned of this car from a fellow local BFC member, went looked at it, bought it, then had it delivered a week later. I started tearing it down as soon as I received it.
    It's Jet black with black/silver interior. Here are some pics I got from the seller. Better pics when it's driving again.
    http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...414_160634.jpg
    http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...7/IMG_0824.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Robert, nice to see your making progress.
    The E38/LS1 swap is going slow. The 2 front mounts didn't fit right which was a big delay. The new mounts are now finished, we should be be bolting them in soon.
    Thanks Jim. Glad you have have made some progress on the 7.
    I haven't had time to test out the comparator circuit but when I do, will discuss it here

    Quote Originally Posted by unnatrl View Post
    I love this project. Truly the best of both worlds! Looking forward to a ton of pics :-)
    Worry not lad, a ton pics there will be.

    Before fabricating the trans mount, I needed to decide what rubber mount to use. The GM F-body transmission rubber mount will not work with the XL, at least not without modifications. I reached out to Tremec for a recommendation on what mount works with the XL and they suggested Anchor part # 2369. This mount is used on older Ford Explorers, Rangers, Broncos, Aerostar, and also some older GM Suburbans. As with the vehicles it's used in, it is huge! I just don't like how low it hangs so I'm considering using BMW rubber mounts.

    Here is the Ford Mount. Sucker is huge and hangs low (don't even......).
    A scissor jack is great at setting the pinion angle. You can sneak up on the desired angle at 0.3- 0.5 degree increments then hold the trans in place. This jack is from my '94 Grand Prix that I had in undergrad. I have used it in every one of my LS swaps.




    I'm thinking I could adopt the BMW mounts somehow. I like that the BMW's approach places the mount under compression and in shear. GM does the same with the trans mounts on some of their newer cars. This is a great way to optimize stiffness while keeping NVH in check. Will mock up the BMW mounts using cardboard tomorrow morning. If that doesn't work then the Ford monster will have to do, for now.



    This is what I'm thinking I could do.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 11-07-2014 at 08:17 PM.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  21. #21
    Join Date
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    Sweet car. In the end, I think the M5 is the way to go. So much of the good stuff.

    I recall my 2002 E39's NAV display having engine related data. Do you think it can be Thanielized? That would be neat.
    540i-LS3-TR6060 swap thread

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    Thanks all.

    Thanks for kind words Jeremy. I'm glad the interior worked out for you.
    The garage does get tight but that's not an excuse for me not to get this swap done. Our lease here ends in the spring so we just started house hunting. I'll miss being in downtown but a larger garage will be most welcome.

    Alex, careful hanging around these parts. A clutch swap may turn into an engine swap.

    With the S62 gone, there isn't enough power to warrant the M5 subframe.


    What do you know about M5 soul snatching lol
    Btw.. thanks to Thaniel's work, I was able to get the oil temp gauge and LED lights working with the GM oil temp sensor. Will document that thoroughly in case you would like to do the same for your car.


    Thanks Chuck.
    Having the driveshaft in place is very helpful. Really all that is needed to order a driveshaft is the length which you can determine well before fabricating the mounts.


    Never really took pics of the car.
    I learned of this car from a fellow local BFC member, went looked at it, bought it, then had it delivered a week later. I started tearing it down as soon as I received it.
    It's Jet black with black/silver interior. Here are some pics I got from the seller. Better pics when it's driving again.
    http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...414_160634.jpg
    http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...7/IMG_0824.jpg


    Thanks Jim. Glad you have have made some progress on the 7.
    I haven't had time to test out the comparator circuit but when I do, will discuss it here


    Worry not lad, a ton pics there will be.

    Before fabricating the trans mount, I needed to decide what rubber mount to use. The GM F-body transmission rubber mount will not work with the XL, at least not without modifications. I reached out to Tremec for a recommendation on what mount works with the XL and they suggested Anchor part # 2369. This mount is used on older Ford Explorers, Rangers, Broncos, Aerostar, and also some older GM Suburbans. As with the vehicles it's used in, it is huge! I just don't like how low it hangs so I'm considering using BMW rubber mounts.

    Here is the Ford Mount. Sucker is huge and hangs low (don't even......).
    A scissor jack is great at setting the pinion angle. You can sneak up on the desired angle at 0.3- 0.5 degree increments then hold the trans in place. This jack is from my '94 Grand Prix that I had in undergrad. I have used it in every one of my LS swaps.




    I'm thinking I could adopt the BMW mounts somehow. I like that the BMW's approach places the mount under compression and in shear. GM does the same with the trans mounts on some of their newer cars. This is a great way to optimize stiffness while keeping NVH in check. Will mock up the BMW mounts using cardboard tomorrow morning. If that doesn't work then the Ford monster will have to do, for now.



    This is what I'm thinking I could do.
    Wow! That's a lot of porn there, I love it. What transmission is that?

  23. #23
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Alex, T56 Magnum XL.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post

    With the S62 gone, there isn't enough power to warrant the M5 subframe.
    Great point

    I would use the Ford mount. It doesn't hang below the transmission and you know it fits.
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  25. #25
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    Love the interior! Looks like a Dynavin or something already installed too.
    Last edited by James39; 11-08-2014 at 08:28 AM.
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

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