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Thread: My New Project: LS/T56 swap into a 2003 E39 M5

  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by no7fish View Post
    Does the factory BMW M/C not push enough fluid for the GM slave?
    It does. And have no issue doing it. 2 different swaps and current street/track setup.
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by no7fish View Post
    It seems a lot of you guys are swapping out the clutch master cylinder. Asking the apparently dumb question... Does the factory BMW M/C not push enough fluid for the GM slave?
    The stock master does work with the GM slave but the thread below is what sold me on the larger bore master.
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...3-E39-M5/page8
    Last edited by Schitzo; 07-15-2017 at 08:19 PM.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  3. #378
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    Thanks a lot for the link. I have plumbed in the stock one but haven't confirmed that I'm getting proper disengagement. It doesn't feel very nice but it's hard to tell if it's working properly yet.
    It's good to know that it could work, although even better to see that the upgrade isn't a huge ordeal.

  4. #379
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    Happy new year all. I think it's time for an overdue update.

    Engine Harness
    After a lot of laziness and procrastination, I finally finished the last big project which is the wiring. Since connectors and terminals for the LS engine sensors and ECU are readily available and cheap, I decided to build the engine harness from scratch. This also allowed me the route the harness exactly as I wanted. Once I knew where things needed to go, I assembled the various connectors including the appropriate length of wiring. I also covered the wires with heat shrink tubing.



    Once the engine sensors were done, I started populating the two ECU connectors. There were about 80 pins in total between on the ecu end that needed to be crimped in installed in ECU connectors. I double checked my working using two different wiring diagrams just to avoid any mistakes that might result in the engine not starting. As a third and final check, I tested each ECU pin for continuity between the ECU pin and the appropriate pin on the other end. I documented all of this in an Excel sheet to make sure I did not miss anything and to also have a reference for the wiring harness. This should also help the future owner if and when I decide to sell the car.





    Once everything was done, I added the necessary relays (ECU power relay and AC relay), fuse boxes, battery power connector, and two body connectors that interface with wiring inside the car (throttle pedal, cluster, OBD II socket etc). I chose to use BMW relay sockets, fuse panels, and body connectors since they mount nicely within the ebox. I was able to purchase all the necessary parts from BMW save for the fuse boxes. I reused old BMW fuse boxes I had and just added new terminals and wiring. I then wrapped everything in BMW cloth tape.



    Finished harness


    Installed in the ebox. The ECU is small enough to fit where the original BMW DME resided. The relay sockets and fuse panel fit nicely which is why I wanted to use the BMW parts.



    Fuel Pump and Cooling Fan Wiring
    The M5 fuel pump relay is not a conventional relay so it wouldn't work with the GM ECU. I had to wire in a conventional relay and there were two ways in which I could approach the job: cut off the wires going to the stock relay socket and solder them in the appropriate orientation or I could remove the pins from the stock BMW relay socket and re-insert them in the appropriate positions. The latter was most appealing to me and would certainly be the cleanest. However, during my previous E39 LS swap, I was never able to figure out how to remove the pins from a BMW socket. This time around I was determined to figure it out.

    As it turns out, most of the BMW relay terminals are held within the relay socket in four places all of which must be relieved simultaneously in order to remove the terminal. I have never ran across any other connector that is designed this way. You have to insert a two pronged tool on the top face of the relay and another two prong tool on the bottom of the relay socket. The terminal can then be pulled from the bottom of the relay socket. Once I was able to remove all the pins, I re-inserted then in the correct orientation.





    Wiring for the cooling fans was pretty straight forward. I chose to take advantage of the PWM capability of this ECU. This required using the PWM fan controller out of a C6 Corvette. For the wiring, I used the stock BMW wiring since it was already setup the way I wanted (fused power wire, ground wire, and PWM signal wire). I placed the PWM controller in the airbox.




    I have the start up tune where I want it so now I just need to put fluids in, do a final check, and start here up.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  5. #380
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    Nice job Robert. I'm guessing your wiring chart should be about the same as my LS3 wiring? I wimped out and bought the complete wiring harness, I'll have enough to do putting the car together.
    What's that on the far corner of the ping pong table? Doesn't look like a crimp tool to me.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Nice job Robert. I'm guessing your wiring chart should be about the same as my LS3 wiring? I wimped out and bought the complete wiring harness, I'll have enough to do putting the car together.
    What's that on the far corner of the ping pong table? Doesn't look like a crimp tool to me.
    The engine sensors are the same as those on an LS3 but the ECU is different from what you have so the ECU pinouts are different. I believe GM uses the E67 ECU for the crate engine. My ECU is an E38.
    That tool is a brain crimper

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  7. #382
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    Thats a great looking wiring loom.

    I'm using the E38 ecu as well but I am having trouble finding a pinout for the Australian Spec ECU.

    A few people have told me that they are different to the US spec but no one can provide the details.

    Did you buy tools to remove the terminals from the BMW relay block or make something up?
    Last edited by E39Touringoz; 01-01-2018 at 05:24 AM.

  8. #383
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    Can't wait until spring to hear this scare all the little ones in the neighborhood Robert!
    6 spd swap, M5 diff, M5 steering box, B&G springs, G.A.S. Monoballs, M5 rear chasis braces, Eibach rear swaybar, EBC red brk pads, EBC slotted rear rotors,
    StopTech frt rotors, StopTech brk hoses, aFe CAI, 4" MAF, M60 Manifold, N62 Throttle Body, DUDMD Stg 2+ w/ SAP & EWS Deletes,
    muffler delete w/ Magnaflow tips, 18x8/9 style 69, BMW lip spoiler, Hella G4 projectors, & 1.4 bar coolant cap.

  9. #384
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    Awesome as usual! I've been looking for an update -- thx for the detailed info. Nice to
    have a reliable engine in the E39.... BMW does not seem to know how to do a proper
    oil system for their E39 M5 engine:

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...re-thread.html

    Probably ok as long as the revs are kept below 5000



    E30-LS1 Swap Guide and Kits, email us at e30ls1@gmail.com !!! or check our website e30ls1.wordpress.com

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by E39Touringoz View Post
    Thats a great looking wiring loom.

    I'm using the E38 ecu as well but I am having trouble finding a pinout for the Australian Spec ECU.

    A few people have told me that they are different to the US spec but no one can provide the details.
    I can't think of a reason why the Australian E38 ECU would be pinned differently from that used in the US cars.

    In the link below are wiring diagrams for a 2009 HSV (I believe it was LS3 powered in that year?). The ECU connector pinout on page 107 of 335 is similar to what I have and is what is used on US L99, LS3, and LS7 engines. The only difference I saw was pin 71 and 72 on the X1 connector is marked as not used but these pins are connected to the vehicle speed sensor in the US cars.
    http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=33446

    Quote Originally Posted by E39Touringoz View Post
    Did you buy tools to remove the terminals from the BMW relay block or make something up?
    One of the tool was part of a kit (which is a real POS) I received as a Christmas gift a few years ago; I had to modify the tool in order for it to work. The other "tool" I made out of thin Tig welding rod. The arms are different lengths as I found it easier to insert them into the socket one at a time.


    How they work. The tool on the right depresses metal locking tabs on the terminal while the tig rod depresses plastic locking tabs within the relay socket. The spacing between the "arms" of the tig rod is much wider than the opening on the relay socket so that when inserted, they push back against the plastic tabs holding the terminal in the socket.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
    Can't wait until spring to hear this scare all the little ones in the neighborhood Robert!
    Can't wait to fire it up. I'm nervous but also very excited.

    Quote Originally Posted by garretvs View Post
    Awesome as usual! I've been looking for an update -- thx for the detailed info. Nice to
    have a reliable engine in the E39.... BMW does not seem to know how to do a proper
    oil system for their E39 M5 engine:

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...re-thread.html

    Probably ok as long as the revs are kept below 5000
    Glad you are still following
    It's amazing that the M engines still have rod bearing issues but I guess that is bound to happen considering how tight they go with some of the bearing clearances.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    I can't think of a reason why the Australian E38 ECU would be pinned differently from that used in the US cars.

    In the link below are wiring diagrams for a 2009 HSV (I believe it was LS3 powered in that year?). The ECU connector pinout on page 107 of 335 is similar to what I have and is what is used on US L99, LS3, and LS7 engines. The only difference I saw was pin 71 and 72 on the X1 connector is marked as not used but these pins are connected to the vehicle speed sensor in the US cars.
    http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=33446
    Thanks for that, I hadn't found those pin outs yet.

    My motor is an L77 designation, 6.0L with displacement on demand and flex fuel.

    Cheers

  12. #387
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    Happy new year Robert. Your work is just beyond my comprehension.

  13. #388
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    Just stopping in and saying hello, looks like you're just about ready to fire it up. Love the harness made from scratch.

    Tackling an L92/LS3 swap into my C5 this winter, I think yours might be a bit quicker when it's done!

    2001 BMW 560i 6.0 LSx/T56 SOLD


    2000 Corvette Hardtop FRC

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
    Happy new year Robert. Your work is just beyond my comprehension.
    Thanks Alex and happy new year to you too.
    Quote Originally Posted by nsogiba View Post
    Just stopping in and saying hello, looks like you're just about ready to fire it up. Love the harness made from scratch.

    Tackling an L92/LS3 swap into my C5 this winter, I think yours might be a bit quicker when it's done!
    Hi Norb, do you still have a build thread for the C5? I haven't seen recent updates in the E39 section. The bigger engine should be fun in a C5.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    Thanks Alex and happy new year to you too.

    Hi Norb, do you still have a build thread for the C5? I haven't seen recent updates in the E39 section. The bigger engine should be fun in a C5.
    Folks were understandably not that interested in the C5 in the E39 section so I stopped updating.

    https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...to-c5-frc.html

    Looking forward to more updates on your build!

    2001 BMW 560i 6.0 LSx/T56 SOLD


    2000 Corvette Hardtop FRC

  16. #391
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    Norbert, I guess only us real gearheads liked your C5 build. Thanks for the link.
    I'll be doing my '33 build soon, not exactly sure where I'll stick it.

  17. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsogiba View Post
    Folks were understandably not that interested in the C5 in the E39 section so I stopped updating.

    https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...to-c5-frc.html

    Looking forward to more updates on your build!
    Great! Started reading it. PMd you about your garage floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Norbert, I guess only us real gearheads liked your C5 build. Thanks for the link.
    I'll be doing my '33 build soon, not exactly sure where I'll stick it.
    Post one in the FFR forum and include a link in your sig. I want to follow that build.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  18. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post

    Post one in the FFR forum and include a link in your sig. I want to follow that build.
    I do have a build thread on the FFR forum, it gets loaded up with a bunch of back and forth BS that usually isn't too interesting.
    It already has 53 posts and all I have is the engine, tranny, wiring, and CPU's sitting on the garage floor.
    Nothing too exciting yet. Car kit won't arrive until the end of Feb.
    About all I've done is paint to top cover and install some shorty block hugger headers on it.
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...JimLev-s-Build
    A bunch of guys want me to post it on the E39 section.

    DSCN1373.jpg

    DSCN1367.JPG
    Last edited by JimLev; 01-10-2018 at 09:33 PM.

  19. #394
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    The engine is looking good Jim. Will that header clear especially in the driver's side?
    Thanks for the link.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  20. #395
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    One of the other guys that is building the same car already has them on his '33, which is why I bought them.
    I still need to buy a starter and alt. They are priced just as high as BMW parts.

  21. #396
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    Very cool, be sure to post in the E39 section (maybe OT to keep it in the right section?)

    You might want to look out for low mileage used parts on LS1Tech and the like, lots of people remove parts from crate motors to "upgrade".

    2001 BMW 560i 6.0 LSx/T56 SOLD


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  22. #397
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    updates? lol

  23. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotalon1g View Post
    updates? lol
    No update worth posting at the moment but I will have one soon

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  24. #399
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    Schitzo, you must be close to done by now.

  25. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Schitzo, you must be close to done by now.
    You'd think! Got the engine running a few weeks ago but noticed it was making a noise. Thad suggested it was piston slap and that I should run the engine as is. I instead chickened out, pulled the engine and opened it back up to ensure it wasn't a bearing issue. I didn't find any issue...bearings were fine. I should have listened to Thad! Anyway, the engine is reassembled now ready to go back in the car. Will provide more details when I update the thread.

    How is the 33?

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

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