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Thread: testify's E36 Sedan DSP Build

  1. #1
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    testify's E36 Sedan DSP Build

    Time to start a build thread.

    I've been autocrossing since 2008, I've run a few different cars. I've run a ST 07 Impreza, GS 07 Civic Si, RT 11 WRX, and SMF 92 Civic Si. I've been lucky enough to be able to hold onto the RTA and SMF car through all of this.

    But since my first event in 2008, I knew that one day I would build my E36 into a DSP monster. It has eaten away at me since day one. There is nothing like the exhaust note of a DSP BMW, lifting its tires past every cone in the slalom, you can see the air buffeting off the rear spoiler on a hot day!

    I mean, really, who wouldn't want to build one?

    The car

    1996 328i
    Nice and heavy with all the options
    I'm the original owner, bought as a leftover in '97 from Wide World of Cars in NY, and just cracked 80k miles

    Regrettably I actually let the car sit for about 7 years, from April 2004 to February 2011. I was in a motorcycle accident in 04, and couldn't drive a stick for a while, and just ended up moving on to a bunch of other cars while the 328i sat.

    Pulled it out of the weeds, err, snow in 2011. All it took was a jump and it started right up, no smoke, no issues.








    I shoveled it out, and in true BMW fashion, it promptly got stuck in a half inch of snow








    She cleans up nice!














    Hard to see in the picks, but there are lots of dents and a cracked windshield from the tree it was parked under for the better half of a decade, but restoring the body and paint is on my list.


    And if I weren't the tech chair at my local club, I'd be trying to sneak it onto the course with the broken windshield


    My goal is to get it together for the 2015 season.

    Anyway, on to the fun stuff!



    Motor

    AKG Motorsports Motor Mounts 75D
    aFe Cold Air Intake
    S50/M50 OBD1 Intake Manifold and Eurosport Conversion Kit
    Koyo 48mm Aluminum Radiator
    SPAL Thinline 16" Puller Electric Fan
    Aluminum Thermostat Housing
    Supersprint Resonator
    Supersprint Long Tube Headers


    Transmission

    AKG Motorsports Transmission Mounts
    AKG Motorsports Stage 2 Shifter
    AKG Motorsports DSSR
    Mason Engineering Clutch Pedal
    Driveshaft Shop Chromoly One Piece
    UUC Clutch Delay Valve Delete


    Differential

    AKG Motorsports Rear Differential Bushing Set 75D
    RRT 12mm Rear Differential Bushing Front Position
    BimmerWorld 12mm Differential Bolt
    BMW 3.91 Limited Slip Differential 60% Lockup
    Redline Synthetic Gear Oil with Slip Additive 140w90

    Steering and Suspension

    Garagistic Reinforced Rear Subframe
    AKG Motorsports Offset Front Lower Control Arm Bushings 75D
    AKG Motorsports Rear Subframe Bushings 75D
    AKG Motorsports Rear Trailing Arm Bushings 75D
    SPC Aluminum Adjustable Rear Control Arms
    OEM Inner and Outer Tie Rods
    OEM Front Lower Control Arms with OEM Ball Joints
    Ground Control Adj. Front Sway Bar
    Ground Control Adj. Rear sway bar
    OEM X Brace
    Phony Yellow Adj. coilovers
    Mason Engineering Strut Tower Brace


    Brakes
    OEM Pad Wear Sensors
    OEM Brake Rotors
    OEM ABS Wheel Speed Sensors
    ATE SuperBlue Racing Brake Fluid
    Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake Lines
    Hawk HP+ Brake Pads Front
    Hawk HP+ Brake Pads Rear

    Wheels/Tires

    BBS CH007 17x8.5" +38 Wheels
    Dunlop Direzza ZII 255/40/17 Tires
    OEM Style 30 16x7" Wheels
    General Altimax Arctic 205/55/16 Tires


    Exterior

    OEM Headlights and Turn Signals
    OEM Bumper Cover
    OEM Foglight Covers
    OEM Hood Release
    OEM Grill Kidneys
    Safelite Replacement Windshield

    The car is pretty solid. The only issue I've come across so far was that the driver side OEM motor mount was actually in two pieces when I removed it. There was lots of drivetrain slop, but the car seriously drove fine right up until I removed it. I was stunned that it was broken when I pulled it out.

    I still can't decide on shocks. I'm tempted to buy Taiwanese knockoffs like BC Racing to hold me over for a while. I figure they are cheap and reliable, even though the damping is atrocious. I don't expect the car to be competitive right out of the box, and don't have a tow rig, so I don't think buying shocks that wear quickly and cost big dollarbucks is the smartest move right now.

    I'm sure I'll have an endless stream of questions, and I welcome any comments or suggestions. I've got a thick skin so don't hold back.

    Thanks for looking!
    Last edited by testify; 11-25-2017 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #2
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    nice 4dr!

    might as well get the TRMs if you are going to go on the cheap side. They'll at least be able to handle the spring rates you can run with R-comps
    98' M3/4/5 - Boston Green / modena
    Forever in process - DD/AutoX/HPDE

  3. #3
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    1994 BMW 325i Sport
    Sport package equipped 1996 328i? Sound like a great car for G Street.

    I bought some cheap R-compounds for my 1994 325i, so I will be running in DSP at least occasionally. No budget for a full build. My 325i is both originally heavy and now even heavier from repairs.



    I am on used AST 4100s. Maybe a step or two up from BC or even TRMs.

    Real E36 DSP cars are awesome:

    Last edited by MatthewH; 09-16-2014 at 02:40 PM.

  4. #4
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    You will hate your life with a 3.91 FD. 52mph on 25" tires with a 7,000 rev limit. Not enough for autocross. 3.15 is where it's at for a DSP E36.

  5. #5
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    bmw e36 328i 4dr saloon
    sorry for my ignorance, but what are the qualifications for DSP?
    1996 328i (m52B28US) OBD1 euro ZF 5spd. 3.23LSD conversion / Chem. PnP Head/ DINAN stg.2 CHIP/ VAC race valves/ S52 cams/ A/C delete/ fan delete/ Washer Fluid resv delete/ ARP head studs/ Cometic 140MLS / VAC Solid Engine/trans Mounts/ CAI / 2.5"Borla race exahaust/ NGK R spark plugs, M50 Mani, S50 Oil Res, Riot Racing HFTB, SAMCO Hoses, JBR FW, X-Brace, Mtech Front Bumper, RE RSMs, stoptech SS lines, Bilstein sports, H&R Race Springs, S52 Reinforcement plates, Kosei K1 w/ bridgestone RE960as, Brembo/stoptech slotted rotors, M3 Trailing arms, M3 Calipers, M3 Axles, ACS strut brace, weight reduction.

    http://mbuild.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
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    It's not an easy read, but section 15 of this book tells you most everything you need to know about what's permitted in Street Prepared (D SP). If it does not say you CAN do it, then you can't.

    http://www.scca.com/assets/2014%20So...nd%20links.pdf

  7. #7
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    Thanks everyone!


    Quote Originally Posted by berny2435 View Post
    nice 4dr!

    might as well get the TRMs if you are going to go on the cheap side. They'll at least be able to handle the spring rates you can run with R-comps
    Those look nice, but if I was going to spend $2000, I'd probably go with a Koni Race setup. I like Koni, and I know the company isn't going to fold tomorrow, so rebuilds will always be available.

    On the topic of matched valving, BC Racing coilovers, as horrible as the damping is, they are supposedly valved to match whatever spring rates you choose. And this isn't a forever shock. I'm just looking for a shock with a nice warranty that is known to be reliable, and can handle the rate I'm going to throw at it.


    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewH View Post
    Sport package equipped 1996 328i? Sound like a great car for G Street.

    I bought some cheap R-compounds for my 1994 325i, so I will be running in DSP at least occasionally. No budget for a full build. My 325i is both originally heavy and now even heavier from repairs.

    I am on used AST 4100s. Maybe a step or two up from BC or even TRMs.
    I'm not interested in G Street. I thought about it briefly last winter, but decided it was too complicated to get an LSD into my 328i legally. You could only get factory LSD on a 328i on a non-ASC+T car. The Throttle body, and the ABS system are different. It's actually a pretty involved process, and fairly expensive to do the conversion if you want to make the car legal.

    Didn't I read that AST is out of or going out of business?

    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    You will hate your life with a 3.91 FD. 52mph on 25" tires with a 7,000 rev limit. Not enough for autocross. 3.15 is where it's at for a DSP E36.
    I know it's not necessarily ideal, but I got it for next to nothing.

    I'm planning to run a 23" tire, which should give me 72mph in 3rd. That's not that much of a leap, since by my calculations the car would be running somewhere in the area of 67mph at the top of second with 25" tires and the 3.15.
    Last edited by testify; 09-17-2014 at 08:05 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by testify View Post
    Didn't I read that AST is out of or going out of business?

    I'm planning to run a 23" tire, which should give me 72mph in 3rd. That's not that much of a leap, since by my calculations the car would be running somewhere in the area of 67mph at the top of second with 25" tires and the 3.15.
    I don't think so. These were serviced by Brian Hanchey and seem to be working well. They didn't cost me much more than the Koni Sports they replaced.

    I am also thinking 23" tires especially in front. I ran 205/50R15 V710s in DS at first. Too easy for these to bicycle. The suspension/tire stuff seems pointless if that isn't fixed.
    Last edited by MatthewH; 09-17-2014 at 08:22 AM.

  9. #9
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    Yeah, Koni Sports definitely wouldn't be worth it from a long term standpoint. I think Koni says the Sports can only handle a 450# spring, so they won't cut it on a DSP BMW. Fine for a stock car, but they do reach their limits very quickly on a modified suspension.

    I was considering their Race shocks for this car. The Race version is double adjustable, has different valving than the Sports, and comes with shortened shafts and bodies. I think you can get the Race shocks valved for springs up to 1000lbs/in.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was thinking about getting rid of the rubber flex disc on the driveshaft but I'm not 100% sure it's legal.

    Rule 15.10.W says:

    "Axle/halfshaft and driveshaft retention/location devices may be installed for safety reasons to control the motion of attached driveshafts upon failue of a coupling or universal joint. They may serve no other purpose."

    Anyone have any input on that?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by testify View Post

    I was thinking about getting rid of the rubber flex disc on the driveshaft but I'm not 100% sure it's legal.

    Rule 15.10.W says:

    "Axle/halfshaft and driveshaft retention/location devices may be installed for safety reasons to control the motion of attached driveshafts upon failue of a coupling or universal joint. They may serve no other purpose."

    Anyone have any input on that?
    Looks to me like what you quoted has no impact on the flex disc or any other part of the actual driveshaft...meaning it provides no allowance for driveshaft modification. It only allows for "retention/location devices" that serve no other purpose.
    Last edited by rodhx; 09-17-2014 at 02:09 PM.

  11. #11
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    I don't think it's part of the driveshaft though, its part of the coupling mechanism between the driveshaft and the transmission. I wouldn't have to modify anything on the driveshaft, just change the material on the flex disc to limit movement.

    I think the rule's intention is to allow driveshaft hoops, but they don't specifically say that you must use a hoop, just 'retention location devices', which an upgraded flex disc would certainly accomplish.
    Last edited by testify; 09-17-2014 at 02:22 PM.

  12. #12
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    2011 E92 M3, 2007 335i
    I've considered this whether it's as a DSP car or M3 where the migration is STU -- BSP but would be less preferable.
    Now in E92 M3 ZCP -- Absolute beast

  13. #13
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    Like I mentioned before, if it doesn't say specifically that you can do it, you can't. Plus there are several reports of those aluminum flex discs/guibos with poly bushings leading to new and unwanted drivetrain vibrations/imbalances.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    Like I mentioned before, if it doesn't say specifically that you can do it, you can't. Plus there are several reports of those aluminum flex discs/guibos with poly bushings leading to new and unwanted drivetrain vibrations/imbalances.
    I'd fully expect more NVH with it. If there is an issue with the balance of the part, I'd like to think that's something that could be resolved.

    I understand how a permissive rulebook works, and the rulebook does give us a driveshaft allowance.

    By my interpretation, a different material guibo does satisfy the two requirements of the rule (locates the driveshaft better by allowing less movement and retains the driveshaft by being less prone to failure).

    But it also does also serve another purpose (better throttle response).

    Then again, I think the intention, though not written as such, is to allow hoops. So the 'may serve no other purpose' is probably leaning towards the intention of hoops, and the hoops not being a brace.

  15. #15
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    I worked on a Lotus for a guy one time who decided that aftermarket polyurethane rotoflex joints would be a good idea (rather than the heavy-duty rubber ones) and we almost lost both half shafts after about 5 laps when we pulled the car in for an inspection on its first time out. I think there are good places for urethane materials and there are places where people are using it because it's cheap and easy to make, rather than because it is the proper material for the application. I'm not going to say that those aluminum disks won't work, but I would suggest if you get one, that you inspect it OFTEN, because those little bushings are going to be very highly loaded and I don't think they are going to last very well.

  16. #16
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    Not much progress this winter with all the snow.

    I have to work on the BMW outside because I only have a one car garage, and the Honda has to stay in there so that it doesn't get stolen by the Honda theives.

    I just bought a set of the SPC Aluminum Rear Lower Control Arms.

    I also made my decision on shocks. I'm just going to bite the bullet and put something halfway decent on it from the start. I'll be ordering a set from Ground Control with Koni Race DA's, and GC camber/caster plates.

    I'm also thinking about going with a GC front swaybar, but haven't decided on size. It looks like they have 3 different diameters available. I may start with the largest one.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by testify View Post
    I'm also thinking about going with a GC front swaybar, but haven't decided on size. It looks like they have 3 different diameters available. I may start with the largest one.
    I have the medium one and I think it's just right. I suspect the large one will be too much bar.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    I have the medium one and I think it's just right. I suspect the large one will be too much bar.

    I figured as much.

    I really can't imagine these cars need that much front bar with high spring rates.

    Big bars seem to do more on MacPherson strut suspensions, and with the links all the way out on the struts, it just seems like even a smaller bar will have a profound effect.

    I don't think I'll make it to r-comps this year either, so a large bar would probably really be too much in the short term.

    Thanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay, here's another one.

    I haven't put my trailing arm bushings in yet.

    Normally when I put the car on jackstands, I use the trailing arm pockets as the place where I put the stands.

    What are some other rear jackstand points I can use?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by testify View Post
    Okay, here's another one.

    I haven't put my trailing arm bushings in yet.

    Normally when I put the car on jackstands, I use the trailing arm pockets as the place where I put the stands.

    What are some other rear jackstand points I can use?
    I jack the car up from either the subframe under the diff or the diff housing itself and put the jack stands under the rocker panels where the jacking points are. Been doing it that way for almost 4 years now and no issues whatsoever.

  20. #20
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    By under the rockers where the jacking points are, you mean where the round rubber pads, correct?

    I just feel like that isn't a really secure spot for a normal jackstand. I know they have special jackstands and pads for that location, but I don't have them.

  21. #21
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    I have no rubber pads on my car. The jackstands go directly against the metal on the bottom of the rocker.

  22. #22
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    Alright, I'll have a look when the snow melts.

    I'm just mentally going through the job in my head now.

  23. #23
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    Wow, 3 years almost to the day since I started this thread.

    I think I win the procrastination award since I haven't touched a single nut or bolt on this thing in that time.

    I had to give up on autocross for the most part after a really badly broken wrist that didn't heal correctly. I don't have the range of moton and the thing just hurts all the time. Autocrossing is just a day of pain now.

    But I still love the car, so the build shall commence! For real this time! Probably not a purpose built autocross car, but I may do some track days with it.

    I should be able to dig out the car and get it started by this weekend, and start ripping everything in the rear apart immediately.

    Can't wait!

  24. #24
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    I've learned a bunch too over the years. My front sway bar is actually the small GC bar (0.120" wall thickness) and even with 800lb fr/900lb rr springs, it's not enough. I'm going to try the medium (0.150"), but more than likely I'll jump straight to the large (0.188"). Then again, I'm running the bar attached to the LCA, not the strut which puts more emphasis on the bar (leads to needing a larger bar for same effective sway bar "rate").
    Last edited by jakermac; 09-12-2017 at 03:57 PM.

  25. #25
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    I did end up buying the GC front bar, but I bought it 2 years ago and don't remember whether it is the large or medium bar.

    And my emissions lapsed, and registration got cancelled, so I have to go through emissions again. Only problem is the dash is lit up like a Christmas tree because I have a wheel speed or ABS sensor that broke off in one of the rear hubs a long time ago. I think it's going to be very hard to get it out, but hopefully doable once the trailing arms are off the car.

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