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Thread: M70 mated with 5HP30

  1. #51
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    Reason why I say that is I was under the impression that trans fail safe also limits the throttle position to <1\3 as well, but I could be confusing motors just the same.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteghost1 View Post
    You might loose cruise control, ASC, etc... but who cares at that point.
    I do. Who wants a GT car without cruise control. Certainly not me :p
    Current Cars:
    1994 BMW 850 CiA (2017 km). My black on black Wokke'd 5.4l V12 autobahnmuncher
    1992 Donkervoort S8AT (105k km). The mad dutch "Super 7." 300hp/ton of turbo power!
    2013 VW Caravelle 4Motion (57k km). A dark wine red 180PS/400Nm 2.0 BiTDI rocketvan
    2007 SMC F-Kart 50. 88cc of street legal go-kart hilarity, and a 1968 Cadillac Coupé DeVille Convertible 472.

    "The best way to go broke-by-german-car is to buy an 8 series bmw with a v12" - Perc
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  3. #53
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    Yeah. Cruise control is a must on those cars!!!

  4. #54
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    e31-e38 trans swap

    Quote Originally Posted by wokke View Post
    No one said the auto tranny is that much faster and above values are like fuel consumption values. All measured under top conditions with professional drivers I guess.
    And BTW, compare the standing start kilometre: 0.7sec between auto tranny and 6-speed with the M70 engine - WOW
    And the 80HP more powerful CSi in the same discipline outperformes the 850i by just 0.8 sec.

    - - - Updated - - -



    something I'm absolutely non familiar with - yet
    Hi Wokke -

    Jon Steven here - I am one of your latest customers - you just sent me a set of chips and I am very impressed with them. I pulled out a set of Dinan chips as well as 2 big red piggy back computers and replaced it all with your new chips.

    I, just like you , would like to replace my 4 speed automatic with a 5 speed automatic from one of my 750il cars, but have not attempted to do so yet. I am also interested in the M70B54 conversion you mentioned above - I think I saw a thread about it somewhere - could you ppoint me back in that direction please.
    I have 4 e38 750il cars and 4 e31 850i cars - all automatics. I put in a 4 post rack at my ranch this year so I can put the cars up in the air and work standing up (getting too old to lay in the dirt) so anyone who knows how to do this transmission swap and likes to drink burbon should come visit!By the time the bottles are empty - we should all know everything about swapping transmissions.

    Jon Steven

    4x1991 850i (silver, red, red, black)
    2x2001 750il (red,blue)
    1x1999 750il (silver)
    1x1997 750il (silver)
    1x1998 740il (black)
    84 E31 cylinders - 72 Running

  5. #55
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    It's gonna take more than one bottle of Bourbon to figure out how to put a 5-speed auto onto an M70 Engine....
    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiss Metallic
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  6. #56
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    Cases GR8White Cases

    Quote Originally Posted by TxGR8White View Post
    It's gonna take more than one bottle of Bourbon to figure out how to put a 5-speed auto onto an M70 Engine....
    The may be a limit to how fast we are allowed to drive, but luckily there is no limit on how much BarterHouse OrhanBarrel Burbon we are allowed to consume while standing under a 4000+ pound car and operating pneumatic tools.
    I will put up the first case!

    Jon
    84 E31 cylinders - 72 Running

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by fursideup View Post
    Hi Wokke -

    Jon Steven here - I am one of your latest customers - you just sent me a set of chips and I am very impressed with them. I pulled out a set of Dinan chips as well as 2 big red piggy back computers and replaced it all with your new chips.

    I, just like you , would like to replace my 4 speed automatic with a 5 speed automatic from one of my 750il cars, but have not attempted to do so yet. I am also interested in the M70B54 conversion you mentioned above - I think I saw a thread about it somewhere - could you ppoint me back in that direction please.
    I have 4 e38 750il cars and 4 e31 850i cars - all automatics. I put in a 4 post rack at my ranch this year so I can put the cars up in the air and work standing up (getting too old to lay in the dirt) so anyone who knows how to do this transmission swap and likes to drink burbon should come visit!By the time the bottles are empty - we should all know everything about swapping transmissions.

    Jon Steven

    4x1991 850i (silver, red, red, black)
    2x2001 750il (red,blue)
    1x1999 750il (silver)
    1x1997 750il (silver)
    1x1998 740il (black)

    Hey John,

    glad to hear that you like the chip set. If you need three more for the other three 850s let me know
    Here's the story about the M70B54 swap: M70B54 project
    Not mentioned in this thread is the option of using the M70 heads instead of the M73 ones. They are a 1:1 fit and what you get is a slightly sharper cam shaft (M70) or you can upgrade to Schrick cams which raises the engine performance close to the S70.
    And a practical aspect is, that you do not need adapter downpipes to mate the M73 headers with the M70 exhaust system (see conversion thread).
    All in all this conversion is absolutely worth it.

    Cheers
    Wolf

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TxGR8White View Post
    It's gonna take more than one bottle of Bourbon to figure out how to put a 5-speed auto onto an M70 Engine....
    Putting it on is no issue. It is a direct fit Getting it to use more than one gear is the challenge.
    And I quite honestly doubt, that Bourbon will be of great help

  8. #58
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    All kidding aside - I am very grateful for this forum being in existence - it would be almost impossible to keep all these cars running without it. I am going to build an engine for one of the 850i cars using the engine in the 97 750il. I will try to take as many pictures as possible and post them once I get started.

    Wokke - I will most likely need more chips so keep that burner handy!
    84 E31 cylinders - 72 Running

  9. #59
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    If you need any help in performing this upgrade don't be shy and ask
    I've done it five times so far and project #6 is already in the pipeline.

  10. #60
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    On this ZF North America application chart it shows 5hp30 with M70B50 on 94-97 850ci. That's just a typo, right? Or were there crossover M70 850cis that had the 5speed?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffbebe View Post
    on this zf north america application chart it shows 5hp30 with m70b50 on 94-97 850ci. That's just a typo, right? Or were there crossover m70 850cis that had the 5speed?
    typo
    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiss Metallic
    ALPINA B7 -Alpinweiss III

    BMWCCA E31 Chapter President



    ...the price of cool ain't cheap!

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDO5OO1A View Post
    There are m60 engines in 740's that have a 5hp30 but are not steptronic shifters. Shifter is like 94 & earlier 850's. So I guess the question is are there 7 series with M70 engines & 5HP30s ? IDK...
    Nope...
    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiss Metallic
    ALPINA B7 -Alpinweiss III

    BMWCCA E31 Chapter President



    ...the price of cool ain't cheap!

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxGR8White View Post
    typo
    Thought as much... While a six-speed conversion is very appealing, it's also very expensive, particularly here in New Zealand. I really liked the 5hp24 gearbox with Dinan s/w in my E39 540i so finding (not overly complicated) solution to mating the 5hp30 tiptronic box with the M70 would be fantastic. I know some very bright and creative guys on the electrical side, so will do some digging but won't be surprised if they suggest a complete M73 and gearbox conversion is the simpler route. Plenty of cheap M73s with auto boxes available.

  14. #64
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    Check with WOKKE, he just did a M73 with M70 heads and SCHRICK cams, mated to a 4-speed auto= CSi numbers...

    Add a 3.91 LSD rear end with a set of Wolf's chips, and you will have one blazing hot 850 on your hands...
    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiss Metallic
    ALPINA B7 -Alpinweiss III

    BMWCCA E31 Chapter President



    ...the price of cool ain't cheap!

  15. #65
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    That would be nice... I think the Schrick cams would probably cost more than the engine though!

    I do really like the 5 speed tiptronic - particularly with the Dinan tune which gives faster shifts and higher rpm limit in each gear AND holds the gear regardless of speed in manual mode which is really fun!!

    Guess I'll just stay subscribed to this thread and hope Wolf can come up with a simple solution for the 5hp30 M70 conversion!

  16. #66
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    I've been talking to several people and the CAN bus is the big issue.
    Next step for me will be to find out if any other car manufacturer has used the 5HP30 and controls it without using a bus system.
    Parallel to that I'm looking into custom programmable tranny ECUs.
    So I haven't given up yet but I'm slow due to very limited time.

    Merry Xmas to all of you.

  17. #67
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    Aston Martin and Rolls Royce both used the 5hp30... But not sure if CANbus or not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm thinking engine swap for M73 with the 5hp30 might be easier!

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffbebe View Post
    Aston Martin and Rolls Royce both used the 5hp30... But not sure if CANbus or not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm thinking engine swap for M73 with the 5hp30 might be easier!
    Maybe easier but less challenging
    Seriously, easier most likely but you'd need all the wiring looms and those are E31 specific which means you have to get them from BMW = big bucks for sure.
    Plus it won't allow you to mate the M70 with a 5HP30 which I think would be nice as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As a matter of fact the 5HP30 EGS doesn't seem to be full CAN bus at all. I found a pdf document which explains the tranny pretty well and according to this only engine speed is transmitted as a CAN bus signal.
    Also the repair manual for the E31Ci with M73 and 5HP30 gives the same info.
    And the gear display in the instrument cluster is CAN bus based but this is currently less interesting IMO.

  19. #69
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    Interesting... The boffins I know are thinking about it and it would be great to share that PDF. Can you post a link or email it to me, Wolf? Thanks.

    Another option suggested was to try getting the M70 to work with M73 DMEs.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffbebe View Post
    Interesting... The boffins I know are thinking about it and it would be great to share that PDF. Can you post a link or email it to me, Wolf? Thanks.

    Another option suggested was to try getting the M70 to work with M73 DMEs.
    If I had an email address I could of course send it over
    What is the sense of running the M70 on M73 DMEs???? This idea must come from someone who has very little knowledge about both engines.

    I'm BTW in contact with a company which supplies custom programmable ECUs for engine as well as tranny management and it looks promising.

  21. #71
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    You have my email address... You probably just don't know it's mine! I will email you.

  22. #72
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    Very well possible but my CRM system is crap
    PM or email (info@wokke.de) and I'll send it over asap.
    I'll be out of town in about 2 hours though (Xmas stress starts).
    Last edited by wokke; 12-24-2014 at 05:15 AM.

  23. #73
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    Merry xmas Wokke - I am on pins and needles waiting for you to find a way through the maze so the rest of us can follow! Thanks for your pioneering spirit.

    Jon
    84 E31 cylinders - 72 Running

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by wokke View Post
    Maybe easier but less challenging
    Seriously, easier most likely but you'd need all the wiring looms and those are E31 specific which means you have to get them from BMW = big bucks for sure.
    Plus it won't allow you to mate the M70 with a 5HP30 which I think would be nice as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As a matter of fact the 5HP30 EGS doesn't seem to be full CAN bus at all. I found a pdf document which explains the tranny pretty well and according to this only engine speed is transmitted as a CAN bus signal.
    Also the repair manual for the E31Ci with M73 and 5HP30 gives the same info.
    And the gear display in the instrument cluster is CAN bus based but this is currently less interesting IMO.

    Hi Wokke, any progress with this project?

  25. #75
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    In a way yes.
    I'm now in contact with a company which manufactures custom programmable ECUs for engines as well as for auto trannsmissions.
    I'm currently just a bit short of time to really dig into it but once I do I should also be able to offer a custom programmable ECU for the 4HP24.
    But all this takes time as the ongoing jobs have priority.

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