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Thread: M70 mated with 5HP30

  1. #26
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    (5) 850Ci, E9,SL65,911S
    About a two years ago while looking to buy an 850 I drove a beautiful 1991 850i 6 speed. The car with a 6 speed was a slug out of the hole! I was very unimpressed... When I questioned about the car being slow from other experienced E31 owners I was told that the E31s are heavy and that the 6 speed cars are typically slow until they get moving.

    I now own both a 1991 850i (auto) and a 96 850Ci with the M73 and 5HP30. The 850Ci is totally different to drive in EVERY respect! I know there are may differences but the 5 speed trans makes a HUGE difference in performance. I still have yet to install the 3:15 LS and that should make the car even more fun to drive...

    Just my $.02
    Last edited by execmalibu; 08-29-2014 at 10:43 AM.

  2. #27
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    e34 540 e30 335
    I love the 5hp30 in my 540 and if it's possible to fit into my 8, then count me in as well.
    E30 1992 335 Cabriolet - Transplant nearly finished
    E31 1992 850ci - Hartge H8 6.0 conversion
    E34 1995 540A - Stock, low mileage, hi spec and soon to FI'd
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    M62B46 with TTV flywheel, dual plate clutch and 6 speed box sitting in a corner waiting for me to decide where to put it.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wokke View Post
    No one said the auto tranny is that much faster and above values are like fuel consumption values. All measured under top conditions with professional drivers I guess.
    And BTW, compare the standing start kilometre: 0.7sec between auto tranny and 6-speed with the M70 engine - WOW
    And the 80HP more powerful CSi in the same discipline outperformes the 850i by just 0.8 sec.
    If you drop your V2 chips in and add a 3.91LSD (for the 4-speed auto), you will most certainly be FASTER than the manual, which allows you a free hand to do more of this:


    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiss Metallic
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  4. #29
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    to register your 8 @ www.8coupe.com!

    Best regards from good old Germany Harry!

  5. #30
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    1993 850ci 2001 M5
    Do the M60 cars with the 5hp30 use the same can-bus interface as the later model M73/5hp30, or do they use the same interface between engine and transmission as the m70 cars with 4hp24? In other words, are the OBD-1 cars set up differently than the OBD-2 cars?

    I too, would prefer the 5hp30 to the 4hp24.
    Last edited by bdiefAZ; 09-26-2014 at 03:45 AM.
    Regards,

    Brian
    Cave Creek, AZ

  6. #31
    Join Date
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    M70 mated with 5HP30

    5hp30 +M70 with Dinan EGS s/w and SMG steering wheel with paddles would suit the 8er so well!! 3.15 LSD is the perfect ratio for that gearbox IMO.

  7. #32
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    i envision you will need some for of circuit board to do the CAN bus conversions, and other various signal adjustments. IF someone designed this as a plug and play option(plug it into the M70 EGS connector, and it plugs into the 5HP30 EGS) the swap would be very straight forward.

    Where is an electrical engineer when you need one?
    Current:
    - 04 330CI

    Ex's: 1984 325e, 1988 325IX, 1992 525I, 1995 540i/6, 2002 330i, 2005 330xi, 1992 850i, 2003 330i #1, 2003 330i #2, 2002 330ci

  8. #33
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    1996 ACS 850Ci
    You could just opt for the M73

  9. #34
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    1993 850ci 2001 M5
    Long term goal would be the m70/m73 hybrid for me, aka m70b54, or s62 with 6 speed...

    I have seen that swap in person at Bimmerfest, there was a guy there that installed that combo in an e31, e46, and e38.
    Regards,

    Brian
    Cave Creek, AZ

  10. #35
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    This is a cool idea,, as E31/E32 have 3.15 ,, vs E38 2.81... diff ratio and the 1.st gear in 5HP30 is shorter vs 1.st in 4HP24... the accleration will be quite good,,,

    these performance numbers ..850 auto vs 850 CSI... this must be some kind of misprint.......... under 1 sec and we have 75+ ponies and 100nm

    this is a huge theft ,, from BMW to all their customers if this is true... buying a lame auto 850 vs top of the line ///M-powered car.....

    this cant be true at all
    Last edited by B10 BITURBO; 09-30-2014 at 11:46 AM.
    Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson

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  11. #36
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  12. #37
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    I've done some reading and according to the ZF spare parts catalogue the A5S 560Z has been used in early E34-540I as well as in late E38-750iL.
    Also looking at the pins of the EGS they look identical to the pins of the 4HP24 EGS units and not like the ones on my '99-E38-750iL with Steptronic.
    I'm a bit confused now biut on the other hand have some hope that it may be possible to mate the 5HP30 from an E34-540i with the M70. I guess i have to talk to ZF at some point to find out about details.
    If anyone has any usefull knowledge please share it with us.

  13. #38
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    Anyone know what the differences are between the E34 and the E38 versions? Obviously the bellhousings are different but are the electronics and valveblocks the same? I would think that using the E34 trans controller would be the way to go, find out what the pins on that do and try and marry them to the E31.
    E30 1992 335 Cabriolet - Transplant nearly finished
    E31 1992 850ci - Hartge H8 6.0 conversion
    E34 1995 540A - Stock, low mileage, hi spec and soon to FI'd
    E36 1994 M3 - GM LS3 Transplant
    E38 2001 735 - Daily driver
    E46 2002 330 Cab - Stock
    M62B46 with TTV flywheel, dual plate clutch and 6 speed box sitting in a corner waiting for me to decide where to put it.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamoda View Post
    Anyone know what the differences are between the E34 and the E38 versions? Obviously the bellhousings are different but are the electronics and valveblocks the same? I would think that using the E34 trans controller would be the way to go, find out what the pins on that do and try and marry them to the E31.
    that's exactly my idea. And 5HP30 is basically 5HP30 although they do have various codes depending upon which BMW model they are mounted to.
    CAN bus is not an issue anymore and I doubt the M60 DME delivers more data to the EGS than the M70 DME.
    Last edited by wokke; 11-03-2014 at 01:55 AM.

  15. #40
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    I just learned that the CAN bus was already in use on the E34 when equipped with M60 engine. So I guess I have no choice but need to implement a CAN-bus translator. Doesn't make thing easier
    Last edited by wokke; 11-03-2014 at 03:00 AM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wokke View Post
    I just learned that the CAN bus was already in use on the E34 when equipped with M60 engine. So I guess I have no choice but need to implement a CAN-bus translator. Doesn't make thing easier
    It would help to get a pin out diagram of the E34/E32 trans controller posted up here if anyone has one.
    E30 1992 335 Cabriolet - Transplant nearly finished
    E31 1992 850ci - Hartge H8 6.0 conversion
    E34 1995 540A - Stock, low mileage, hi spec and soon to FI'd
    E36 1994 M3 - GM LS3 Transplant
    E38 2001 735 - Daily driver
    E46 2002 330 Cab - Stock
    M62B46 with TTV flywheel, dual plate clutch and 6 speed box sitting in a corner waiting for me to decide where to put it.

  17. #42
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    I wondered why you said that CANBUS was not an issue any more! Everywhere the M60 was used, DME 3.3 was used as well, and that was always CANBUS connected to the EGS.

    Circuit diagram of E32 740i here:

    http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E32/e32_93_etm.pdf

    Converting the CANBUS messages to something else (parallel digital I/O and analogue signals) is not trivial and would require software to emulate signals that the DME's expect - and, probably a lot harder - CANBUS messages that the EGS would expect.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    I wondered why you said that CANBUS was not an issue any more! Everywhere the M60 was used, DME 3.3 was used as well, and that was always CANBUS connected to the EGS.

    Circuit diagram of E32 740i here:

    http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E32/e32_93_etm.pdf

    Converting the CANBUS messages to something else (parallel digital I/O and analogue signals) is not trivial and would require software to emulate signals that the DME's expect - and, probably a lot harder - CANBUS messages that the EGS would expect.
    Yep, the issue would be to convert the DME signals to CANBUS signals as well as probably vice versa. And I can just guess what the EGS wants to see.
    I assume the DME just has to deliver rpm info but the EGS also delivers some signals back to the DME when shifiting AFAIK.

  19. #44
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  20. #45
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    I'm completely speaking from ignorance, but what about trying to fit the egs sensors into the hp30? Basically eliminating the CANBUS.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by IJustDrive View Post
    I'm completely speaking from ignorance, but what about trying to fit the egs sensors into the hp30? Basically eliminating the CANBUS.
    Only the communication between the engine control units and the EGS is CANbus based. I'm quite sure the tranny would go into trans fail safe mode right away if this communication is disturbed.
    And the 4HP24 EGS doesn't know about a 5th gear otherwise I would see a chance to adapt it.

  22. #47
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    also note the auto M62 is out performed by the 850i by 0.1 sec after it was quicker through the 0-60 i suppose that may show the worth of an extra gear or the fact the M70 makes it's peak torque higher in the rev range

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by wokke View Post

    Only the communication between the engine control units and the EGS is CANbus based. I'm quite sure the tranny would go into trans fail safe mode right away if this communication is disturbed.
    And the 4HP24 EGS doesn't know about a 5th gear otherwise I would see a chance to adapt it.
    The latter part is kind of where my head was at. I see your point about 5th gear. Could that be solved with a chip or flash like the Dinan?
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  24. #49
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    When a 4hp24 car swaps to a 6spd, isn't the solution to ground one of the wires to the EGS, thus circumventing a trans prog error?

    Couldn't one do this then run a standalone computer as suggested to the 5hp24?

    You might loose cruise control, ASC, etc... but who cares at that point.

  25. #50
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    I never did a 4HP24 to 6-speed conversion but would have thought that you just unplug the EGS and that's it.
    Trans fail safe means that the transmission is stuck in 3rd gear but what if there isn't any 4HP24 anymore?
    And in terms of communication between EGS and engine elctronics it is basically limited to rev info from engine to tranny and all the rest is tranny info to the engine electronics (shifting mainly so the engine electronics adjust ignition timing).
    But as said above, no experience yet so just theoretical thoughts.

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