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Thread: S38B38 into my 1977 e12 chassis'd 633CSi

  1. #101
    Join Date
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Here's the uncracked dash to go in, and the recaro's to replace the old front seats. The recaro's look fantastic in real life. Not good photos. Car interior is light blue so seats should fit right in.

    20160925_181149_zpsl4irgpvi.jpg

    20160925_181234_zpscaghe3lo.jpg

    20160925_181243_zps6xupa9xk.jpg

    20160925_181225_zpsizeeo4e5.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  2. #102
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    99 740iL, 12 VW TDI
    Lovely pieces mate!
    Those recaros are sweet.

  3. #103
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    The PLX sensors and gauges are now in the country. Still awaiting the gasket set for the head/valves etc. Engine rebuild commences as soon as the gaskets arrive.

    We have started the big brake swap using the 135i calipers. Here are the issues;

    * - Current disc has 72.5mm dia hub and hat size 56.30.
    * - Purchased 135i 6 piston front calipers. Disc 26mm thick and hub 79mm. Hat 47mm. So disc from 135i will not fit. (338mm diameter disc)
    * - Holden Commodores performance arm (HSV) makes a 343mm diameter disc (345mm is claimed as the maximum that will fit my 17 inch wheels) with a 52.5mm hat.
    * - The HSV disc is 32mm thick and has a hub diameter of 71.5mm.
    * - Called the HSV disc manufacturer and he notes that I can machine the hub centre to 72.5mm. So this disc may fit, we are very close dimmensionally.
    * - We are now fitting a used HSV disc to see if the 135i calipers will fit. Admittedly we will need to take 3mm off of each pad to take into account the loss of room from the 26mm BMW disc to the 32mm HSV disc.
    *- I will need to fabricate a brake adaptor plate.


    Here's the disk we are trying. Note that they are a 5x120 bolt pattern. If I can get this to work I'll have 6 piston calipers on 343x32 vented floating discs which is much better than the single piston 850 brake setup at 345mm in diameter.

    http://www.dba.com.au/dba-part-finde...id=DBA5055BLKS
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  4. #104
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    3.73 LSD now in with big modified diff mount. The large case LSD has locating bolt offset to the left. The new modifications allow me to swap in the medium case 3.46 LSD if needed.

    20161025_175008.jpg

    20161025_174911.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  5. #105
    Join Date
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  6. #106
    Join Date
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  7. #107
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    Jul 2014
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    Riga, Latvia
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    e24 635csi
    Needs a little tidy up, but more or less it is finished, here is the engine bay of my e24 with s38 swap:

    2016_31_10-1.jpg

    2016_31_10-2.jpg

  8. #108
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    '85 635 CSi Euro 5sp.
    Doesn't get too much nicer than that. Excellent work on all the various aspects of that car.
    Dean
    Lutz, FL

    '85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
    '87 Spider Veloce
    '92 Spider Veloce
    '08 350Z


  9. #109
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    99 740iL, 12 VW TDI
    Love it!!

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

  10. #110
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    2013, BMW M550d
    Looking good!!

  11. #111
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    The large case diff has been cleaned and painted. The big diff mount is now painted and back in.

    Awaiting the correct valves from VAC. They sent B36 instead of B38.

    Oh, and the big CATCAMS weigh about half that of the OEM's. The CATCAMS are hollows.

    20161101_190642_zps4cxhylqd.jpg

    20161101_190649_zpseomx55qb.jpg

    20161101_191511_zpsly6i9dqe.jpg

    20161101_191545_zps5cu6eqhq.jpg

    20161101_193146_zps3dbqyqhu.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  12. #112
    Join Date
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  13. #113
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Problem, we were going to bolt up the shafts but the hat on the cv did not fit into the E34 large case LSD. The right diameter but;

    1. As you can see below the medium case 3.46 LSD has diff drive plates with checkouts around the sides.
    2. The hat on the cv for these drive plates as regular weld leafs to fit into these checkouts and the hat is flat.
    3. The large case 3.73 LSD has a tapered plate so the shaft cv plate needs to be tapered as well.

    I now need to chase these cv hat plates. Are they e34 only? Anyone seen them before??


    20161105_093937.jpg
    This is the old diff. Note the 6 checkouts.


    20161105_093924.jpg
    Here's the old cv hat. Fits into the medium case above. But not the new large case lsd.


    20161105_093920.jpg
    Here's the conical shaft plate on the new large case diff. Old cv hats will not fit.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  14. #114
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    Diff in. Bomb Proof Diff Mount has been strengthened. Does that make it double bomb proof??

    Diff has also been cleaned.

    20161105_094249.jpg

    20161105_094259.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  15. #115
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    Jul 2014
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    Riga, Latvia
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    e24 635csi
    I am not going to make new thread for my ride, hope Shipper doesn't mind, if I post some pics here from today:

    1.jpg
    3.jpg

    did not catch the best moment, but the headers were glowing red, I mean really red

    4.jpg

    Made a dyno run, engine horse power ~ 350 hp, this dyno was used to adjust the car, not to measure the hp and torque (it isn't very accurate), I will do a more accurate dyno run next year. Still, did drive the car today for a while, it runs very nice, I would say better than e34 m5 I am happy with the results, now have to wait for next summer to drive it
    Last edited by crime; 11-26-2016 at 05:01 PM.

  16. #116
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    1986 e24 635csi, 1999 Saab 93, 1992 Saab 9000 turb
    Love it. Awesome work there!

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

  17. #117
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    Love it. Crime, what model S38 engine and what are the specifications of what has been done to it.


    My valves turned up today, well, are currently with the courier. Will get them to the mechanic tomorrow and hopefully the engine is back in and ready for dyno over the next week. We'll see what difference the CATCAMs 294 degrees make to the B38.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  18. #118
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    Riga, Latvia
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    e24 635csi
    Quote Originally Posted by Shipper View Post
    Love it. Crime, what model S38 engine and what are the specifications of what has been done to it.
    Hey Shipper, it is s38b36 with few modifications, that include:
    bore from 3535cc to 3617cc and Wiseco pistons 94,50mm, comp. ratio 12:1
    Bosch EV14 670cc injectors
    Bosch 044 fuel pump
    OEM connecting rods with new bushings
    ignition coils from m54 engine, for each cylinder
    VEMS engine ECU, adjusted for super plus gasoline (e98)
    equal lenght stainless steel headers
    full lenght Supersprint Race exhaust
    K&N air filter in OEM air filter box
    SPAL electric vent. (OEM fan coupling delete)
    engine oil cooler
    getrag 280/5 gearbox
    maybe few more things, that I missed

    few more upgrades for the car:
    drive shaft from e46 328i, 5 cm shortened and rebalanced
    shortshifter
    front axle: bolt on e31 840i front brembo 4-piston calippers, brembo brake discs, EBC yellow stuff pads, bilstein b6 dampers with AP lowered springs, BBS RS wheels 8.5J with custom ET
    rear axle: OEM calippers, bosch brake discs, EBC yellow stuff pads, bilstein b6 dampers with AP lowered springs, BBS RS wheels 9.5J with custom ET
    Nardi black line steering wheel, M shifting knob
    OEM cluster upgrade to 300 km/h and redline 8000 rpm + engine oil temperature meter replaced the econometer

    it has LSD diff 3.64 (OEM from factory)

    that's it more or less
    Last edited by crime; 11-28-2016 at 04:08 PM.

  19. #119
    Join Date
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Quote Originally Posted by crime View Post
    Hey Shipper, it is s38b36 with few modifications, that include:
    bore from 3535cc to 3617cc and Wiseco pistons 94,50mm, comp. ratio 12:1
    Bosch EV14 670cc injectors
    Bosch 044 fuel pump
    OEM connecting rods with new bushings
    ignition coils from m54 engine, for each cylinder
    VEMS engine ECU, adjusted for super plus gasoline (e98)
    equal lenght stainless steel headers
    full lenght Supersprint Race exhaust
    K&N air filter in OEM air filter box
    SPAL electric vent. (OEM fan coupling delete)
    engine oil cooler
    getrag 280/5 gearbox
    maybe few more things, that I missed

    few more upgrades for the car:
    drive shaft from e46 328i, 5 cm shortened and rebalanced
    shortshifter
    front axle: bolt on e31 840i front brembo 4-piston calippers, brembo brake discs, EBC yellow stuff pads, bilstein b6 dampers with AP lowered springs, BBS RS wheels 8.5J with custom ET
    rear axle: OEM calippers, bosch brake discs, EBC yellow stuff pads, bilstein b6 dampers with AP lowered springs, BBS RS wheels 9.5J with custom ET
    Nardi black line steering wheel, M shifting knob
    OEM cluster upgrade to 300 km/h and redline 8000 rpm + engine oil temperature meter replaced the econometer

    it has LSD diff 3.64 (OEM from factory)

    that's it more or less

    Nice. And big CAMS?

    My valves came in yesterday. Off to the machine shop today for the head back together and hoping for car to be ready for dyno and megasquirt next week. Actually booking it in may be difficult this close to Christmas. Fingers Crossed!!!
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    Riga, Latvia
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    e24 635csi
    OEM cams, I need it to be street legal, I guess with "bigger" cams I would risk not to pass the emission tests.

    Tried to add OEM camshaft sensor with OEM magnetic rotor from s38b38 engine, but VEMS ecu is not understanding the signal sent from it, because of the magnetic rotor, that OEM Motronic understands.

  21. #121
    Join Date
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    E24, E34 x2, E36
    Nice too see you move forward with the project. What compression are you running again Josh?

    With the bigger cam some extra compression would not go astray. If u have the piston to valve clearance consider ordering a thinner cometic MLS gasket. If the head is off already you could get your machinist to create more clearance if its marginal. It would only be a modest cost if the head is off already. That cam will work nice with 12:1 or high 11's. You could easily make 370-380bhp@ wheels (maybe more if u wanna spin it up to 8200rpm or so) if you have the comp which will make an easy 440-450 bhp @ flywheel. What comp they ran in the 80's and 90's is not the comp u want in 2016.

    The higher comp will smooth out the bottom end and calm the negative effects of the big cam. The chap in USA with the red shark racing (forgot his name) made nearly 390rwhp with the dr schrick 284 cams but he ran 12:1 comp with his 3.8. It would be a shame to leave 50bhp on the table by having modest compression with the big cam.
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  22. #122
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    Stock 10.5:1 compression Gaz. But to be fair, the Group 'C' 635 running 420hp at 3.453 litres runs 10.5:1 compression. Stock for that M88/3 based engine was 9.8:1.

    The pistons are one size bigger and the head has been decked twice so compression may be just a little bit over 10.5:1. Still, the megasquirt, high performance valves, springs, retainers and the 294 degree camshafts that weighs about half the weight of a stock camshaft should all add up to 7750 rpm and somewhere around 380-390hp with luck. That should be plenty in a car weighing about 1480kg (3263lb).
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  23. #123
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    E24, E34 x2, E36
    Hey. No doubt it's going to make massive power as it is. Just with the bigger cam, some more compression will give lots of benifit.

    Going for another point of compression will give approx 10% more power, better fuel consumption on part throttle, and significantly better street manners out of the bigger cam. It may be as simple as installing a thinner cometic MLS for prob about $400-450aud landed. The std head gasket thickness is 70thou. I got mine for 2002 in 027thou. I know it's a different engine but I can give it full throttle in 5th at 2500rpm even with carbs running a 308deg cam. I have pretty tall diff3.64 with and OD 5spd. It idles only with a bit of lope at 950rpm and sips under 10 l/100km on a trip. With the lower comp before it was pretty crap below 3000rpm.

    Anyway if u can do it cheap (without skimming head or changing Pistons) id be seriously considering it.
    be
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  24. #124
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    I'll consider this Gaz but for now getting it tuned and running is the way to go. The 293/279 camshaft is the largest you can go to increase hp without sacrificing torque and low end performance. The previous owner of the engine, Svein, had the engine stock running 390hp/420nm on an Alpha-N chip. It ran lean and number 1 piston was damaged hence the complete rebuild. It was then decked, overbored and new forged one-size-up light pistons placed in. With the megasquirt MS3-Pro, the lightened and high lift camshafts I think I should be able to get to 390hp safely. The Alpha-N is known for making engines fragile. Calling mechanic now to see how machine shop is going.

    It had a Euro$5k head rebuild before I got it and was prestine. The engine is effectively brand new, zero wear with 1200km on the clock. Svein got his 390hp from a 150k mile engine.

    Still, even if it gets good numbers on the dyno, we both know it is how it drives. Weight should soon be below 1450kg (just 70kg more than my Renault Megane RS hot hatch, or golf GTI) and with a 5 speed, 95kw more than the RS hot hatch and large case 3.73 LSD it should absolutely storm along. I better get those bucket seats in before I fall off the old seats sideways!
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
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    E24, E34 x2, E36
    It will go super hard. I'm thinking power to weight around 280bhp/tonne closer to Porsche gt3 than hot hatch. I guess josh things like how tight the LSD is and the mechanical grip of the tyres will determine how hard it goes.
    Im going to try the hankook rs-3 tyres on my m635. There is a diminishing choice of 17" tyres available. I would have preferred the Michelin pilot supersports but they can't supply 255/40/17
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


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