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Thread: S38B38 into my 1977 e12 chassis'd 633CSi

  1. #376
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    First dyno run complete. Firstly a correction, 525cc injectors not 550cc.

    Comments:

    1. Engine sounds fantastic.
    2. Engine ran smoothly.
    3. Wiring is dodgy. If ignition key on engine climbs to 2500rpm by itself. If ignition key off, engine will not turn off but settles back to 800rpm idle.
    4. Need to sort out the wiring issue as the car is getting 7 volts when the ignition key is off.
    5. To turn off the car we need to remove a relay.

    So next week we will fiddle with the wiring, get that right, then re-try the dyno tune.

    But engine sounds fantastic.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  2. #377
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    292
    My Cars
    1982 628CSi
    Great news!

  3. #378
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    30
    My Cars
    1986 BMW 635 1976 911
    Great news mate
    You’ve done well to hang in there especially the hard road you’ve been on with this car. Cruising down the freeway with those itbs sucking down the air!! All those previous problems will be a distant memory 💪

  4. #379
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    That's the plan. I've nearly given up a few times.

    Still, if my good friend Elie (and mechanic) had not had the accident where the battery went flat, starter motor went backwards jumping timing chain on cam gears and all the valves being tapped, then I would be driving a stock engine'd car (not a bad thing at 350hp). Elie had 3 insurance claims in and one approved before I went down to see the car. That's the difference between an expert (who is fully insured and a member of relevant industry bodies) and your back yard mechanic. The net result is a full endurance race engine, brand new with zero miles on it.

    This is a work in progress, there's a few more years in it yet. I need to splice two bell housings to get the 6 speed in. I'll take a break from working on it once it is running now and spend a year or two enjoying, prior to hitting the other items. Things we can finish now include;

    1. PLX gauges in.
    2. M-Tech steering wheel.
    3. Recaro sports seats, one is already in.
    4. Battery to the boot.

    Things I'll leave for a while include;

    1. New MPower 300km/h gauge cluster.
    2. New uncracked dash.
    3. 6 speed. New gearstick nob (MPower) because it must add 25hp! Come on!!!!!!
    4. brake upgrade to 333mm fronts (135i). The rears are already 540 and larger than the fronts.
    5. New carpet. I've got new OEM carpet sitting in a TV box in my office.
    6. Interior.
    7. e28 front subrame for better handling.
    8. I'm sure I've missed a few things.

    Honestly, post the rolling road dyno (probably next year, things are getting busy pre Xmas), it will be time for some spirited driving.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  5. #380
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    We believe we have worked out the start/stop issue and the high idle issue.

    The idle control valve. When we disconnected it the car stopped and started fine (without pulling out a relay to stop it) and idled fine. The idle control valve has 3 wires running to it. A positive (I'm assuming from the fuse box) and two wires from the Megasquirt ECU. We are guessing but believe that the ECU wiring is the issue as the ECU may be completing the circuit with one wire and the other remains live feeding 12v to the idle control valve all the time.

    Hoping to get back into tuning tomorrow but may be next week.

    We may (this is a big MAY!.... considering the engine first went in in May 2014) be ready to commence the work shop tune. Then if that Stage works, the 30 min drive Megasquirt auto tune and to be fair, given the time of year, a Late Jan early Feb 2020 dyno tune. But to be honest, this last sentence probably jinxed me again. Crap!
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  6. #381
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,903
    My Cars
    E24, E34 x2, E36
    golly gosh this build has been very difficult and traumatic. Hope you have a change of luck and it goes smoothly for you. Hope the chassis stuff goes smoother for you as you will need some decent upgrading to harness the torque this engine will finally make
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  7. #382
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    golly gosh this build has been very difficult and traumatic. Hope you have a change of luck and it goes smoothly for you. Hope the chassis stuff goes smoother for you as you will need some decent upgrading to harness the torque this engine will finally make
    Thanks Gaz,

    My Megasquirt Guru Aaron was a bit under the weather last week but booked in for this Thursday. He is confident we can get the workshop tune completed now. May take more than one Thursday night but we just need a safe base tune. I then need to re-register to do the drive tune using the Megasquirt autotune function. Aaron sits next to me for 20 min as we drive the highway and chase rev's and mapping in each gear. A slight chance we can do that this year. Either way getting ready to do that with a safe benchmark tune this year would be awesome. We also need to clean up the wiring loom. It's a new Megasquirt loom but has lots of redundant wires. Like things for knock sensors (we may keep that) and twin turbos. Basically it is a loom you could use for a twin turbo V8, so a bit we can take off.


    The chassis we stiffened in Dromana. If you scroll back pages you will see it. And the car has an as new e28 rear subframe and a bomb proof diff mount. So that should all be good.

    If this Thursday goes well we can get registered and do the on road tune. If the on road auto tune goes well, we will book in the dyno. Actually book it in. That has always felt 4 years away.

    I'll let you know how Thursday goes.

    Josh
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  8. #383
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    111
    My Cars
    M3
    If you are changing the front subframe then why not add a steering rack at the same time? BMW e46 lhd rack as it allows fitment at the rear. The e46 rack in an e30 totally transforms the car.

  9. #384
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    4,885
    My Cars
    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by jmpower View Post
    If you are changing the front subframe then why not add a steering rack at the same time? BMW e46 lhd rack as it allows fitment at the rear. The e46 rack in an e30 totally transforms the car.
    But this car is an E24
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  10. #385
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Not overly interested in further modification past the e28 front subframe. It is superior to the e12 front subframe and a direct bolt in.

    We got the idle tune completed last night. The car now turns on and off normally and is idling well at around 950 rpm. We will now look to cleaning up the wiring. We need a relay and fuse for;
    1. Fuel pump.
    2. Injectors.
    3. Coils.
    4. Wideband #1 and Wideband #2. Individual fuses and relays for these.
    5. Radiator fan.

    We also need to put a 1/4w resistor across the crank angle sensor wires as the megasquirt confuses the 60-2 crank trigger and the missing tooth as a flat spot and drops off to zero fuel. It then picks up again but 3100rpm is reading as engine off. This is a known issue and known fix so no biggy.

    Once this is done and a bit of wiring (a hell of a lot) is tidied up we'll do the higher rpm tunes. Once we have the car revving smoothly to around 5000rpm on the shop floor, we'll head out to do the road tune. We then need to add additional sensors and reconnect the Map sensor as we are currently tuning just off of the TPS.

    Small steps but all in the right direction.

    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  11. #386
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Next session and first for 2020 this Wednesday night. Will also get the car registered ready for the rolling auto-tune later this month or early Feb.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  12. #387
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    10,579
    My Cars
    '86 M635/'10 Clubman


  13. #388
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
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    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    A few issues. We placed the resistor across the crank angle sensor so as to rev above 3000rpm (where it was cutting out) and the car would not start. So we removed it, fiddled around and the car now cuts out at 4000rpm. Some fine tuning to do. We really need to get an auto electrician in to clean up all of the wiring. Would make final tuning so so much easier. Back at it this week.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  14. #389
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Success.

    We ran the resistor on the crank angle sensor in series and cazaaaam, rocket reving to the 7200rpm limiter we set.

    8 weeks wait until she gets to Motorsport Wiring.

    See video below. We cleaned all plugs prior to startup as running dyno runs previously very rich fouled them.


    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  15. #390
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    30
    My Cars
    1986 BMW 635 1976 911
    Bloody brilliant

  16. #391
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    10,579
    My Cars
    '86 M635/'10 Clubman


  17. #392
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    292
    My Cars
    1982 628CSi
    Music to my ears!
    Undergoing restauration; my 1982 628CSi: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...628CSi-rebuild

  18. #393
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    We did all of the above tuning using just one wideband air/fuel sensor. Intelligently (obviously someone else's decision) when I had Buck (not his real name but an old welding genius with the surname Rogers..... so you older guys will understand Buck inheriting his first name) weld in the one lug, at the right angle, on one bank of 3 extractors, I had him weld the other lug in place just past where the other bank of 3 injector pipes come together.

    The second air/fuel sensor arrived today. Thanks PLX. I'll get this installed this weekend. Megasquirt will let us run multi air/fuel sensors so now we can balance cylinders 1,2 and 3 to 4, 5 and 6!

    Better fine tuning!

    I also have a PLX multi-gauge to install that will read separate air/fuel ratios for each set of 3 cylinders, live while driving!

    20200204_122937.jpg

    20200204_163002.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  19. #394
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Car is now pencilled in to go to Motorsport Wiring at the end of the first week of March. Here we get the;

    1. Wiring cleaned up.
    2. 300km/h M635CSi gauge cluster in.
    3. PLX gauges in.
    4. Dyno tune.

    So getting close.

    In the mean-time we have been fiddling with a few items. Starter motor and alternator are currently being rebuilt. We also replaced the power steering line with a new E34 unit. The old line was a series of about 20 welded pipes to get around the extractors.

    IMG-20200215-WA0000.jpg
    old line out.

    IMG-20200215-WA0001.jpg
    new line in.


    Again, old line before we pulled it.



    New line in place.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  20. #395
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    10,579
    My Cars
    '86 M635/'10 Clubman

  21. #396
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Motorsport Wiring pulled the plug. I could not, in the end, even book it in, in line behind their last car. Found them most unprofessional to say the least. Spent a week trying to get an auto-electrician. The engine builder Tony turned up on Friday of last week with his auto-electrician. After a great chat his electrician agreed to take the car on, as early as the end of next week. We'll leave it in his garage at home so he can work on it at nights and over weekends.

    Talk about a ship-fight.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  22. #397
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    10,579
    My Cars
    '86 M635/'10 Clubman
    jeebus

  23. #398
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Car went off to the auto electrician last Thursday. Will call him today and see what eta's we are expecting. hopefully if I break it down to manageable projects we can get this done in a timely manner.

    IMG-20200402-WA0001.jpg

    IMG-20200402-WA0000.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  24. #399
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    The Auto electrician is making good headway. He has;

    1. Wired the car to run from battery in the boot.
    2. Started to clean up the engine wiring loom.
    3. Found the through-port in the fire wall where the last wiring loom was. It was just cut off flush with the fire wall.
    4. He pulled this out to find it still attached to the old 633 ECU? WTF?
    5. He needs to buy a new high performance race battery. Dry cell so no chance of acid in the boot. And the rear strut tower cradle is too small for a stock battery.
    6. He needs to lengthen wiring from the engine wiring loom to get all into the clove box. In particular the wiring from the ignition box is too short.


    So things are underway. No photos yet as we are in lockdown in Sydney but I'll get some up in the coming weeks.

    More to come.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  25. #400
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    292
    My Cars
    1982 628CSi
    Sounds like what will be done to my car minus the mistakes, it's great to hear you found a quality shop this time.

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