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Thread: S38B38 into my 1977 e12 chassis'd 633CSi

  1. #326
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    I bought the last one Addam is commissioning. They are, at the moment, AUD$2.5k a pop.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  2. #327
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
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    M3evo-Twin Screw/M635csi
    Looks promising josh. Hope to see it on the road soon. Group C look is an interesting twist. Once it’s mechanically sorted is just be keen to drive it around abit.
    BMWs
    74 2002 2.3ltr
    84 E24 M635csi
    86 E23 735i
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 14psi
    97 E36 M3 euro SC

    OTHERS
    02 Landrover D2 td5, 08 Holden Ute 6.0, 11 Audi S5 APR


  3. #328
    Join Date
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    M3evo-Twin Screw/M635csi
    Any progress with this build josh
    BMWs
    74 2002 2.3ltr
    84 E24 M635csi
    86 E23 735i
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 14psi
    97 E36 M3 euro SC

    OTHERS
    02 Landrover D2 td5, 08 Holden Ute 6.0, 11 Audi S5 APR


  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    Any progress with this build josh
    Engine has been sitting wrapped at the mechanics. He has recently lost his mum and godmother but, like myself, is burnt out. Waiting for the engine builder for 3 years has broken both of us.

    I've got the Group C kit put away with Addam in Queensland so will, post completion mechanically, drive it for a good 6 months before doing anything else. It will go to Addam when I'm ready for a complete body resto.

    The 6 speed I got from the E39 M5 has the wrong bell housing. I've just bought a 6 speed from an E36 M3 Evo that has the correct housing (but is stuck in 2 gears). I'll pick up the bell housing next week and drop it to the mechanic so he can put box and engine together prior to installation. Once he has that, things should move a little quicker. I can put my E39 bell housing onto the 6 speed and there's a complete box to sell once the syncho is sorted. Might even get most of my money back.

    Still, this has been absolutely draining. After 6 years (we are into the 6th now, MH took the car to Melbourne May 2014) of not driving it as you can imagine life has moved on. So I would expect things could really move on, get going, from Saturday week onwards.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  5. #330
    Join Date
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    1982 628CSi
    I hope my car is ready in less time, that's for sure! Would it be motivational to keep a list of things to do and to tick them off to see the list decreasing?

  6. #331
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    '86 M635/'10 Clubman
    Quote Originally Posted by Shipper View Post
    Engine has been sitting wrapped at the mechanics. He has recently lost his mum and godmother but, like myself, is burnt out. Waiting for the engine builder for 3 years has broken both of us.

    I've got the Group C kit put away with Addam in Queensland so will, post completion mechanically, drive it for a good 6 months before doing anything else. It will go to Addam when I'm ready for a complete body resto.

    The 6 speed I got from the E39 M5 has the wrong bell housing. I've just bought a 6 speed from an E36 M3 Evo that has the correct housing (but is stuck in 2 gears). I'll pick up the bell housing next week and drop it to the mechanic so he can put box and engine together prior to installation. Once he has that, things should move a little quicker. I can put my E39 bell housing onto the 6 speed and there's a complete box to sell once the syncho is sorted. Might even get most of my money back.

    Still, this has been absolutely draining. After 6 years (we are into the 6th now, MH took the car to Melbourne May 2014) of not driving it as you can imagine life has moved on. So I would expect things could really move on, get going, from Saturday week onwards.
    I hear ya brother. But when you start scooting that thing around, I think you'll find some spark there.

  7. #332
    Join Date
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    M3evo-Twin Screw/M635csi
    Good to hear. I guess the goalposts keep getting raised. My m3 is still being built from c/2010. It’s so long ago I can’t even remember. Only got a stand-alone and a few things to finish but I keep get distracted. Planning an overhaul on the 6 prob 2020-21. Sounds so far away. The 540i sc is pretty well sorted just a few tidy ups on the 2002 then I can have a crack at the e36 & E24.
    BMWs
    74 2002 2.3ltr
    84 E24 M635csi
    86 E23 735i
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 14psi
    97 E36 M3 euro SC

    OTHERS
    02 Landrover D2 td5, 08 Holden Ute 6.0, 11 Audi S5 APR


  8. #333
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    I'm in Brisbane on Thursday and will pick up the bell housing for the 6 speed then. Will drop it off at the mechanics on Saturday. We can then look at getting things going.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  9. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shipper View Post
    I'm in Brisbane on Thursday and will pick up the bell housing for the 6 speed then. Will drop it off at the mechanics on Saturday. We can then look at getting things going.
    Where's the LIKE button around here...

  10. #335
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    Brisbane trip delayed a week. But hopefully once I have the bell housing next week we can prep and get back underway. Too much work in Sydney this week.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  11. #336
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    Picked up the bell housing. Now to get things going. Will drop off tomorrow. Matt, a renowned ECU BMW guy from Brisbane notes that unfortunately this bell housing will also not fit. And that an adaptor plate and extending the spline will be needed. Still, another BMW nutter with an M30B35 and 6 speed has worked it out and with me now having all available bell housings for the 6 speed, it may take a while but we should get this done. Once the 6 speed is on the engine things should really get moving.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  12. #337
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    Jul 2018
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    1982 628CSi
    Do you have a comparison of the reductions of the old setup vs the new? I'm going to change my gearbox to a newer too and will look into this as well.

  13. #338
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    New bell housing will not fit. We'll put the car back together as a 5 speed and modify the bell housing on the 6 speed to suit and install at a later time. So it appears there are no bell housing that fit the 6 speed and either an M30 or S38. All need adaptor plates or modification.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  14. #339
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    Aug 2011
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    Ireland
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    M3
    Hi
    Enjoyed reading your thread. I am doing a similar build of e34 3.6 plus six speed into a 6 series. Your experience is similar to many others who pay people to do the work, as was said "you do not get what you pay for". Unless the people who carry out the work have done it before then you are paying them to learn on your car.
    I have done many conversions and the interesting part is the learning experience. BMW's are like lego and it is a question of how to make the parts work together.

    With regard to the gearbox, the getrag 240 has the same bolt pattern as the S38 and M30. Before I got a 6 speed from a late 3.8(rare!) the route I was going down was to cut the bell-housing from the 240 gearbox and the 420g and make a detachable bell-housing like in the getrag dog leg as fitted to the first 6 series.

    I have seen someone has welded the two together which is an other option. I just thought it looked bad as the weld was so obvious, but until you try it yourself you do not know what is involved. I have not got around to trying it yet but I have all of the above gearboxes and will look at it sometime.

  15. #340
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    I have all of the above gearboxes as well. Plus a 4 speed with a bell housing that also fits. I think we will do the cut and shut but at this stage I want the car going. I'm into my 6th calendar year and the 6 speed swap would slow me down too much. The 5 speed overdrive was already attached to this engine and the drive shaft has already been modified. So I'll go this way for now.

    Cam Blazer has got a 6 speed on his M30B35 racer so I'll contact him as he is a member of my BMW club. He's currently getting an S38B36 ready, could be a B38.

    So at the moment I've got 2 420g's with two different bell housings, a 5 speed dogleg, a 5 speed overdrive and a 4 speed. I should be able to get something to work.

    There is an S38B42 M5 E34 floating around the E34 FB pages at the moment with 437hp and 397blft. I'm now actually an S38B39 so looking forward to the dyno run.

    Thanks for the interest. I've got a great mechanic now but he and I were burnt out waiting 3 years for the engine race build. Time to get reinvigorated.
    Last edited by Shipper; 05-20-2019 at 12:00 AM.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  16. #341
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    It is great that you still have the motivation to keep moving forward. Driving the car is the most important goal at this stage. Using a five speed makes sense. I look forward to the road test report!

  17. #342
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    We have begun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Elie, (the mechanic) has gotten over his writers block (caused by others aka 3 year race engine build by others!) and is into it. The photos are flowing and the conversations and plans are going back and forth quicker than in Churchill's Bunker!

    Note,

    1. On the inside of the RH guard there was bitumen peeling off. Probably as the exhaust baked it.
    2. Elie cleaned it off. Well all of it that was not baked on. My E3 racer extractors get to 475 degree's Celsius!
    3. There was light surface rust. Really just tarnish.
    4. Elie cleaned it all back.
    5. Elie has painted the affected areas with primer and will paint the rest of the engine bay.
    6. We may paint over the top.

    Additional to the above the car will, in the next 18 months to 2 years, go to Addam in Queensland for full paint job and Group C conversion so I'm happy for Elie to make temporary repairs now.

    The auto electrician is in tomorrow to quote moving the battery to the boot. It has been a long time so I'll refresh all readers by noting that a few years ago I bought the rear strut mount brace that has the race battery tray built into it. So this is going in very shortly. We will also look at putting in the 2 PLX Multi Gauges. Again you may need to go back a few pages to see what is going on.

    The gearbox will go in well after I've had some good twisty drives and track days.

    So the photos below and following are the RH guard check, clean and prime.

    More to come.

    IMG-20190521-WA0000.jpg
    Elie said he'll remove the old tar.


    IMG-20190521-WA0001.jpg
    Just surface rust. Very minor. Comes off with steel wool.

    IMG-20190521-WA0002.jpg
    Cleaning.

    IMG-20190521-WA0003.jpg
    And really cleaning.
    Last edited by Shipper; 05-21-2019 at 10:09 PM.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  18. #343
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    And some more of this operation.

    IMG-20190521-WA0004.jpg
    Nice and clean. Elie is a bit of a perfectionist and hates doing new good work over issues.

    IMG-20190521-WA0005.jpg
    Chassis rail cleaned. All nice and structurally sound, despite being 42 years old!

    IMG-20190521-WA0006.jpg
    Primer coated.

    IMG-20190521-WA0007.jpg
    Running around inside the engine bay.

    IMG-20190521-WA0008.jpg
    Looks far better even though only a temp repair.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  19. #344
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    IMG-20190521-WA0009.jpg

    IMG-20190521-WA0010.jpg

    IMG-20190521-WA0011.jpg

    IMG-20190521-WA0012.jpg
    Getting there.


    I'll post more when we have the entire temp repair finished.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  20. #345
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    1982 628CSi
    Great! I'll be posting pics like these in few months, keep on inspiring us with this progression.

  21. #346
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    Have you considered where to put the battery? When BMW mounted the battery in the rear for the M635csi and M5 they placed it diagonally from the drivers seat for weight distribution. In a right hand drive car the battery would be better on the left hand side rear. The e34 had a battery under the rear seat again diagonally across from the driver of a left hand drive car.
    Does your rear brace incorporate the battery in the middle?

  22. #347
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    Rear strut brace has battery in the middle. But hard to the rear of the back seat which is far better than left rear corner due to better weight distribution. And far far better than front left corner of car directly behind the headlights.

    This is not a race car so perfect location not critical. I will track the car but what we are doing is far better than what we now have.

    Very similar to the photos/links below.

    https://www.racetep.com/manufacturer...d-battery.html
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  23. #348
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    That looks like the ones I have seen before. It should be straightforward to run a cable from there. The M635csi and M5 cable runs under the rear seat to behind the left hand front seat and then goes through the floor and underneath to the starter. A lighter gauge cable runs inside the car to the lhs a post where a terminal is fitted. I have an original cable and fittings which was very expensive when it was available, but it is a very heavy cable. Modern cars seem to use a lighter gauge.

  24. #349
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    Engine is in, as is gearbox and drive shaft.

    All bolted up. More to do. Will take better shots tomorrow.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.8L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.45 LSD. 390hp, 331lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 300hp, 277lb/ft

  25. #350
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    '86 M635/'10 Clubman

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