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Thread: S38B38 into my 1977 e12 chassis'd 633CSi

  1. #301
    Join Date
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    '86 M635/'10 Clubman
    I'm actually going to be a little sad when this ends.

    Not very sad, but what a journey!

  2. #302
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    1982 628CSi
    Can you make a video of the engine on the dyno Shipper? I would find that interesting and I would expect others would like to see that too.

  3. #303
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    I won't be sad. I'll be absolutely elated when this car is running. Started May 2014 with the engine swap. It has been incredibly emotionally draining. Not to mention a financial hole that may explain the big bang!

    Nullified my mechanic spat a cog when he heard that the engine would go back in without a complete bench dyno run. So, the engine will be dyno'd early November on the current bench dyno up to full power. So your video request will be granted. I'll get a few. Dyno run and new Haltech and wiring loom ordered last night. We could have gone a link computer to save $400 but it is not tuneable. The Haltech can be tuned for ethanol or anything we add to her.

    I'll video the setup, get the engine builder and tuner to discuss what has been done and then go through the power runs. No hiding the flywheel hp here with exaggerated losses across the drivetrain. It is what it is.

    So hopefully within the first two weeks of November, about 3 weeks away according to Mark.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  4. #304
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    Jul 2018
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    1982 628CSi
    @Shipper: thanks, I'd like to see that. Ive done a complete report on a previous car where I measured the power (hp/Nm) as it was, then rebuilt the turbo, placed a freeflow exhaust, did a remap and in between every step we dyno'd it. It was a very laborious job but well worth it as I could prove by measuring how much power each step gained and at which RPM.

    The freeflow exhaust for instance made the turbo spool up earlier and made more Nm too, the rebuilt turbo didn't do much in terms of power but the remap added loads to power and torque. Obviously this is a diesel engine we did this on but my BMW will get the same treatment in due time, depending on at which stage I find a new engine.

  5. #305
    Join Date
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    Invoice has come in from the engine builder. Includes the first wiring of the engine that was an 'F' up after 'F' up. Includes $4k for a new Haltech and another round of wiring. Includes another round of dyno'ing after the first round. At just under $13k I've had enough. There is a point where every man breaks and this is mine.

    I've requested a reduction in the crappy wiring guys bill. I've requested the removal of the new Haltech, wiring and dyno and I'll clear my debts, put the engine as is now in the car and mothball it for a few years. I have simply been broken by this whole experience, lost all confidence in the industry and no longer want to be lead by the nose and drained by people who promise the world and deliver a sand pit. It has always been another $4k to get it finished. Always another $4k. I've been polite with all in the industry and I've been let down big time. Put on the back burner day after day dragging into week after week and year after year. All the time being bled dry.

    So, this project, just the engine to where it is now, stuck on a dyno with a tune that just lets it idle and no more, has cost me 4 years of my life and, excluding getting the engine back to the mechanic and in the car, and then a tow truck to my garage to moth ball it, $45k and a stolen dogleg gear box.

    I'm broken and depressed by it all and I simply do not want to play this crappy game anymore.

    So close, could have been brilliant but let down by poorly performing butt holes.

    Wishing you all the best but I simply cannot even look at these forums anymore. The entire experience has ruined classic cars and talking about them for me.

    Good luck all.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  6. #306
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    western NC
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    1985 M635
    So sorry to hear this story end this way :-( Completely understand your decision .....been there ...done that before, but your experience is 10X anything I have experienced. Sort of like a wake ....... but I hope this project has another chapter and comes back as a positive in the future,
    ================
    1985 M635 (gone but not forgotten)
    1994 850CSi (also gone but not forgotten)
    1985 M635 (current obsession)

  7. #307
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    Apr 2008
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    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    Hey josh, as i said in our PM's Karma will play out. It really does happen. Unfortunately in our hobby these guys exist but somewhere down the road a lightning bolt will hit them. small consolation but all of us go out to you
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  8. #308
    Join Date
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    '86 M635/'10 Clubman
    I hope the chance to blow off the steam a couple days of chill will allow you to come back to this and see it through. I think it's safe to say we're all behind you!

  9. #309
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    E24, E34 x2, E36
    Yeah lots of the auto industry is just awful to deal with. Lots of promises followed by lack of any sort of accountability if tho ha go wrong which often they do with a project. I guess in your case it hasn’t helped tanking to to various different shops it seems from afar with no integration to the common goal. Every shop seems to want to do thier bit only and are all very happy to put their hand out for the $$. Couldn’t understand why initially you went with essentially a kit home built ecu on such an expensive engine but hey I guess all of us have been down that path as car modifiers before. These sort of projects seem to be more successful if the owner has significant mechanical aptitude and can do a good part of the works themselves rather than paying workshop rates for others to “learn” how to do this conversion.

    At face value the s38b38 looks a relatively easy conversion. Stating with an e28 based 6 series no doubt would make this a little easier. The sad thing is even if they got the engine conversion good you would still need to invest significantly in the chassis to harness the 400+ bhp engine. Doing 2 projects at once is often tricky also and you have also the other half to consider as they tend to get quite upset if lots of time and finds.

    I had similar issues with building my e36 m3 supercharged setup. I guess I went in with lofty goals and open cheque book approach and it’s still not sorted and I’ve lost interest in it. I’m probably going to remove the low comp built engine and sell it off and start again with something else on there more affordable. Prob a m60 supercharged setup at least if the engine blows up another $1500 or so and I’ve got another one in the car.

    Take a month time out and don’t bother bench dynoing it, just tune it in the car and perhaps select someone who can finish everything in house in a reasonable time frame. Even offer them 10% extra inventive to finish by a certain date that way the car won’t sit around gathering dust while workshops seem to just do the work they can convert into cash the quickest. Gawd damn shame to jump off now.
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
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    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  10. #310
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    '86 M635/'10 Clubman
    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    Yeah lots of the auto industry is just awful to deal with. Lots of promises followed by lack of any sort of accountability if tho ha go wrong which often they do with a project. I guess in your case it hasn’t helped tanking to to various different shops it seems from afar with no integration to the common goal. Every shop seems to want to do thier bit only and are all very happy to put their hand out for the $$. Couldn’t understand why initially you went with essentially a kit home built ecu on such an expensive engine but hey I guess all of us have been down that path as car modifiers before. These sort of projects seem to be more successful if the owner has significant mechanical aptitude and can do a good part of the works themselves rather than paying workshop rates for others to “learn” how to do this conversion.

    At face value the s38b38 looks a relatively easy conversion. Stating with an e28 based 6 series no doubt would make this a little easier. The sad thing is even if they got the engine conversion good you would still need to invest significantly in the chassis to harness the 400+ bhp engine. Doing 2 projects at once is often tricky also and you have also the other half to consider as they tend to get quite upset if lots of time and finds.

    I had similar issues with building my e36 m3 supercharged setup. I guess I went in with lofty goals and open cheque book approach and it’s still not sorted and I’ve lost interest in it. I’m probably going to remove the low comp built engine and sell it off and start again with something else on there more affordable. Prob a m60 supercharged setup at least if the engine blows up another $1500 or so and I’ve got another one in the car.

    Take a month time out and don’t bother bench dynoing it, just tune it in the car and perhaps select someone who can finish everything in house in a reasonable time frame. Even offer them 10% extra inventive to finish by a certain date that way the car won’t sit around gathering dust while workshops seem to just do the work they can convert into cash the quickest. Gawd damn shame to jump off now.
    Well said.

    @Shipper - I hope my earlier comment came off as intended. I wasn't really thinking of the time and money you'd put into it when I said I was going to almost said when it ended - I was mainly just thinking I've loved seeing the story and progression. I realize now your perspective has time=frustration+cost as big pieces of your experience, which is really a shame.

    That said, I agree with @GazM3 - it would be wonderful to see you get to a point you really wanted at the start so you can enjoy the car.

  11. #311
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sid Knee
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    325is, 96 M3 Euro
    i saw this car very briefly while driving yesterday pulling out of the KFC on hassall st rosehill, looked really good. shame about the outcome as ive had the same issue of dealing with muppets. i agree time out for a bit figure what needs to be done or what options there are
    Last edited by digger; 10-27-2018 at 07:27 PM.
    BMW E30 325is M20B33 in the making....... ITB's, roller rockers and stroked to the hilt

  12. #312
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    Netherlands
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    1982 628CSi
    Wow,

    You are a hair away from completion, instead of spending big bucks find the right guy who can help you, even if it takes a year. Don't give up now, you'll regret it.

  13. #313
    Join Date
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    I'm not giving up, but I am taking a break. Will do nothing this year and may wait well into next year before looking at a new plan of attack. Just too draining to bang my head against a wall day after day. I should be honest and start calling people the liars they are. I'm too polite.

    I'll review next year. I won't toss it, way too much in it. But well over it for now.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  14. #314
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    Engine back with Mechanic. He wants to sponsor getting it finished. So who knows. could be back on a dyno sooner than later. All I know is that I won't be calling the dyno and engine builder guys 3 times a week for no results. Way way to stressful.

    20181124_093451.jpg

    20181124_093500.jpg

    20181124_093515.jpg

    20181124_093517.jpg

    20181124_093523.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  15. #315
    Join Date
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    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  16. #316
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    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  17. #317
    Join Date
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    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    Well, maybe there is still some good left in the world and all is not lost!!
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  18. #318
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    I'll know what is happening by the end of the week. I know one thing for sure, I won't lift a finger to push either the engine builder or dyno guy. Way way over that. Given how busy this time of year is, even if the mechanic takes over project managing this to the end, it may be well into next year.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  19. #319
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    Mechanic has talked to dyno guy. Current plan as follows;

    1. Engine to go back in. Dyno guy happy that engine is working well and will not need to come back out. So no need to bench dyno.
    2. Dyno guy to come and wire car up. He stated he would prefer to wire when in the car.
    3. rolling road dyno.

    More than likely Jan to Feb 2019. Mechanic said that once he starts the work he'll finish the additional list of outstanding items including;

    a) New M-Tech steering wheel.
    b) New dash.
    c) Battery into the boot in rear strut tower brace.
    d) possibly the new 2 dial cluster but I'm not keen on complicating things and this would be far more complicated.
    e) PLX gauges.

    I probably missed a few things.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  20. #320
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    1982 628CSi
    Sounds promising, keep the pics coming!

  21. #321
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    Mechanic about to start on my car again, with a promise to go from start to finish. So for now I'll'

    1. Get the engine in.
    2. Get the 6 speed gearbox in.
    3. Get the new dash in.
    4. Get the new gauge cluster in.
    5. Get the PLX multi gauges in, 2 of them.
    6. Get the new MTech steering wheel in.
    7. finalise getting the two recaro's into the front.
    8. Rolling road dyno tune.

    Then I'll drive for a few months before looking at a Group C conversion. Purchased the Group C flair and spoiler kit.



    A friends car was slotted in between my engine getting back and the work that is about to commence. The following two video's are the modification of a piece of 80x80x25 aircraft grade aluminium by my mechanic to allow for the proper attachment of the aircon compressor. The last vid is the engine turnover.







    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  22. #322
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    See Sig!
    It's good to see your project progressing.
    Tom
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  23. #323
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    I love seeing your updates and this is looking promising. Have you by any chance have pics of the spoiler kit?

  24. #324
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    The aim is to have it look like the below. The Group C kit has been fabricated off of the original car. So should be good.

    a0ae0694-34ad-4a0c-b20e-46b34640f623.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  25. #325
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    Oct 2010
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    84 M635
    Quote Originally Posted by Shipper View Post
    The aim is to have it look like the below. The Group C kit has been fabricated off of the original car. So should be good.

    a0ae0694-34ad-4a0c-b20e-46b34640f623.jpg
    I've wanted this for my M...
    To go along with these:
    Frint with stub axels.jpg

    Any chance to buy the kit

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