Page 1 of 23 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 552

Thread: S38B38 into my 1977 e12 chassis'd 633CSi

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer

    S38B38 into my 1977 e12 chassis'd 633CSi

    My 633CSi has a tired engine. With a 5 speed box it still pulls hard but runs 120psi on 3 cylinders and 125psi on the other 3. So even wear at the least, but the workshop manual calls up a bad engine as anything below 156psi.

    So;

    1. I tossed up putting all sorts of engines into it from M30B34's, B35's to M88's and even the V8 5.0 M5 engine.

    2. I actually bought an old M30B35 for it. Oh, and a really good M30B32 for a direct swap.

    3. Sold the M30B35.

    4. Finally bought an S38B38.

    5. This engine had zero miles on it and was running 390hp and 380lb/ft (450nm) of torque with an Alpha-N chip.

    6. Completely rebuilt it is yet to be oiled up and should run around the 370hp plus range.

    7. The M30B32 is out. sheeze it would have been lucky to be pulling 160hp plus.

    8. S38B38 is now in, so somewhere around an additional 210hp in the engine bay.

    9. I'll keep the 5 speed overdrive and save my 5 speed dogleg as a spare for my racing E3. The 6'er is a weekend drive car not a track day warrior. Still, with 370hp, I could probably track it.

    10. need to find a side-loader LSD but this can wait. I've got Bert on the case.

    11. Plenty more to do on the car post this work but off to exhaust hopefully end of next week for twin 2.25".

    More to come.

    IMG_0030.jpg

    IMG_0031.jpg

    IMG_0033.jpg

    IMG_0034.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Hagerstown, MD
    Posts
    758
    My Cars
    1985 M635; 2010 Z4
    Sounds like you are going to build quite a beast. Go for it.
    Randall Morin
    COL(Ret), US Army
    Hagerstown MD

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Posts
    831
    My Cars
    85 M635/71 3.0CSi/03 M5
    Whoa. Cool! I'll enjoy watching this thread...
    Kai Xing
    -85 M635CSi - Diamondschwartz
    -08 M5 6-Speed - Black Sapphire
    -70 Chang Jiang 750 Sidecar - Army Green

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greenwich, CT
    Posts
    2,038
    My Cars
    1985 BMW 635csi
    Great! Was this engine a direct fit? Sounds like a future project for me. Either that or an Alfa 2000 GTV.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nashville, Tennessee
    Posts
    2,229
    My Cars
    1978 635Csi, 1988 735iM
    Yeaaahhhhhhhh clean off that valve cover :P

    I love it man, I await videos!!!





  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,903
    My Cars
    E24, E34 x2, E36
    The S38B38 is a beast

    It will almost put down what my E34 540i with the vortech (240rwkw) supercharger on it!!! The torque from the B38 is massive, crazy even from 2500. prob due in part to the modern individual coil packs and other more modern bits that are on this engine. Dont forget the 350+bhp that this engine has is in std detuned mode. The heads flow like 310cfm at 500thou lift, so with a standalone managment system and a bigger intake cam and a few more RPM you could easily add another 80-100bhp. Would make the E12 based chassis abit of a handful. I guess Josh the key will be to be able to put the power down otherwise it will be like giving a 90yo man the keys to the ****** cabinet

    The gearbox is now in, next thing will be sorting an effective set of headers to clear that massive steering box. Also the brakes.
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    The engine has had performance work and was, prior to rebuild, putting out 390hp and 450nm of torque on an Alpha-N chip. The Alpha-N is said to be a bit of a hand grenade and two pistons melted. Completely rebuilt, Svein, the previous owner of the engine, decided to put a 500hp V12 into his e30 rather than this rebuilt and ready to go S38. I guess it stops him melting pistons chasing the big hp.

    The engine has had a lot of minor mods and should, with a good dyno tune, run 370hp. Post the engine in I need to track down that LSD sideloader or, I'll be spinning one wheel like a grass trimmer!

    Gaz, feel free to post some more pics and a vid of the start-up when it occurs. I'm in Melbourne next Monday and Tuesday if you want to catch up at Matts. I called him but we both know his mobile is buried under an S38, M88 or any number of wondrous M-power items in his workshop.

    And 6'erWEBB, here's a shot of the engine before it went in. It should scrub back up to this finish.

    98909f7d-ce74-4236-9180-2b66a19a9e52_zpsf2ba29af.jpg

    e0bdddf4-29ce-463e-a76d-d5d4a85bc83d_zps05b0ae95.jpg

    cb09faa3-f7e9-4310-b1ed-5fd982edba08_zps93c61010.jpg

    e0bdddf4-29ce-463e-a76d-d5d4a85bc83d_zps05b0ae95.jpg

    9_zpsc24e2fbe.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Southern IN
    Posts
    2,359
    My Cars
    635csi, 325is, 740il
    I'll be watching this one.


    Alex

    All cars are money pits, it's just that some people love theirs more than others.

    The '85

    The '83

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Superior, Arizona
    Posts
    969
    My Cars
    See Sig!
    If Bert is unable to locate a side loader LSD for you I may be parting out my '79 Euro later this year...too hot to work on it outside now!!! Maybe I'll even get Bert up here to give me a hand tearing this thing apart!
    Tom
    Current Rides:
    1995 318i-Da Kid's Car Now!, Great Little Car "Pearl"
    1987 Porsche 944 "Liebchen"
    2002 Porsche Boxster "Sunbeam"
    2004 X3 "Xander"



    Past Rides:
    Over 50 Years Worth..Way Too Many To List, But There Were Some Really Fun Ones!!!
    www.ttrs1.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    4,885
    My Cars
    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    Love to? 3 1/2 of us tore an 80 euro down in about 8 hours so I am in practice. The 1/2 is a fellow who only helped for 4 hours. We dropped the engine and tranny with the crossmember and held the car up with an engine hoist which took maybe a 1/2 hour
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    I've chatted to Bert re him finding a sticky side-loader for me. I'll head up to Addam's over here in Aus for a looksie in a few weeks. Hopefully I make good there. I need to search Addam's BMW Wreckers for Bert anyway and owe Bert way too many favours to not head up interstate.

    Off to the exhaust shop today. Then we need to work out how to make the LHD headers fit around a RHD steering box.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greenwich, CT
    Posts
    2,038
    My Cars
    1985 BMW 635csi
    Why is that diff called a side-loader?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    4,885
    My Cars
    81 euro 635, 4.4 X5
    Because the gears go into the housing through a plate on the side of the diff case held on to the case by 9 bolts. It is where the stub axle goes through on the left hand side of the case.
    81 Euro undergoing total nut and bolt restoration
    pictures at: flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    The access plate to the diff internals is on the side, as against the rear plate on the e28 diff. The big question is, why are newer diffs not called rear-loaders!!! Wait wait, I see it. Imagine me asking Bert if he has had a rear-loader in his car? He may punch me in the face!!! ahahaha
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greenwich, CT
    Posts
    2,038
    My Cars
    1985 BMW 635csi
    I think Bert's car is a rear loader. Right Bert?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    10,579
    My Cars
    '86 M635/'10 Clubman
    Going to be an interesting process - take (and post) lots of pix!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    I last upgraded this thread at the end of October 2014. It has been a long long journey.

    The big issues? Putting a 370hp modern S38B38 into an e12 chassis. Complicating the big issues? It's a RHD chassis and a LHD only engine.

    Where to start?

    The car is nearly ready. We are short a gasket and about a week. Here's a little run down post October 31 last year.

    1. Sports exhaust fabricated like a work of art and in. Twin 2.5". It's now out again but for another reason.

    2. The extractors finally work. Re-cut and re-mandrel bent about 6 times. Why? The ruddy RHD e12 steering box is a large dinosaur and, the extractors are LHD only. See photos of the extractors in place below and following. They have come in and out about 10 times and required significant modifications to the RHD steering box and the hydraulic lines. Hydraulic lines were fabricated for this specific application.

    3. Engine is in and running. It has been in and out close to 10 times while other conflict issues were sorted.

    4. The engine had been overheated pre the rebuild by the seller. This means that when the extractor to head bolts were tightened, they pulled out of the head. We had to get the thread doctor out to re-thread a large number of extractor bolt female sockets in the head.

    5. I’ve kept the original 5 speed overdrive box in the car. Why? well I've got 370hp+ and around 430nm of torque. The 5 speed dogleg close ratio box I have is a later box so will not work with my speedo cluster or diff. I'm happy that I'll still have a 5 second car with the overdrive box and it will do a lot of highway miles. The overdrive stays and I have a spare dogleg for my racecar.

    6. Now, with the e12 chassis and old sideloader, I’m missing a speed sensor for the S38B38, so it runs in limp mode. Solution, swap out the rear e12 chassis subframe for an e28 subframe as e28 diff’s have the speed sensor.

    7. The e28 rear subframe is going in now, as we speak. It is completely re-built with new race grade bushes. It has the right speedo sensor port and as such the S38B38 will run the full 370hp+ and not the current limp mode of around 250hp.

    8. Front subframe remains e12 but has new bushes and tie rods.

    9. Radiator is BMW M5.

    10. The oil filter canister cannot be used as my twin brake boosters are in the way. It has taken us a few months to track down the correct filter head with oil cooler fittings. One that forcers the canister down and not up. Finally got one Friday. But, we are missing the gasket. Chasing this now.

    11. Brake master cylinder has been rebuilt as have the twin boosters.

    Other items completed/addressed/replaced:
    · Fly wheel bolts $47
    · Harmonic dampener bolts $69
    · Throttle cable new $65
    · Electronic flasher cam $25
    · Tranny mounts genuine $110
    · Oil filter x2 $17
    · 7ltrs running in engine oil Penrite $70
    · Coolant small t piece $11
    · Heater hose t piece 3 size $49
    · Fan relay 40a $14
    · Pwr steer suction line $270
    · Pressure pwr line $190
    · High temp insulation (as above)
    · 1x coolant belt $14
    · 1x pwr steer belt $12
    · Coolant in boot $13
    · Fuel pump $220
    · Fuel pump fittings $25
    · Front castor bushes White line $90
    · Control arm bushes White line $120
    · Tie rods x4 $160
    · Pwr steer fluid synthetic $19
    · Brake fluid x2ltr $25
    · Thread dr $350
    · Rear subframe and diff $480
    · RWC $150
    · Small coolant joiner $9
    · Wire
    · Vacuum line
    · Water hose
    · Fuel line
    · Electrical heat shrink
    · Electric terminals
    · Hose clamps
    · Globes

    Parts Matt has supplied for free include;
    · Thermo fan
    · Adjustable thermo fan switch
    · BMW m5 upper & lower radiator hoses
    · New BMW m5 thermostat
    · BMW m5 airbox resonance valve accumulator
    · Check valve
    · New vacuum hoses

    Additional works Matt addressed as the engine swap went on;
    · Remove and refit brake master
    · Remove and fit brake boosters
    · Remove and refit extractors and just about everything else for thread dr due to studs pulling out due to soft head
    · Repair starter wiring
    · Indicator wiring
    · Brake wiring
    · Idiot light wiring repaired.

    So, what is left to do?
    1. Rear subframe swap and rebuild.
    2. Install e12 front end tie rods and bushes.
    3. Wire in speed sensor.
    4. Place oil canister head gasket and bolt up.
    5. Drive car to bed in engine. Place Lander 375hp chip.

    So close. So so close.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The engine in: Boosters take up area needed for standard S38B38 oil filter canister.




    Some plumbing to do for the radiator and a K&N cold air filter to go on. An M5 radiator.




    M5 throttle linkages:




    Fits nicely in the engine bay:




    Wired up to the left firewall:



    - - - Updated - - -

    I'll move the battery to the boot at a later stage. Note the relays wired in adjacent to the radiator. This will be tidied up shortly.




    Engine fits great. Matt and I are not big on the colour scheme. Worked well in an E30, white 2 door convertable but clashes here a little. I'll get the engine covers/manifold repainted stock black and silver at another time:




    The extractors are a work of art. A pity they are so well hidden!




    You can see how tight it is with the extractors and the RHD e12 steering box below:




    Engine shot. Matt and I had a few drinkies. Well why the hell not! It's been a difficult ride. A swap into a later e28 chassis would have been so much easier:

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Shipper; 03-11-2015 at 08:26 PM.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    10,579
    My Cars
    '86 M635/'10 Clubman
    wow...

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,903
    My Cars
    E24, E34 x2, E36
    Looks good. I was at the exhaust place last night. Not long to go now
    BMW’s
    90 E34 M5
    84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
    94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
    97 Z3 2.8
    97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c


    OTHERS
    11 Audi S5 APR stg2
    19 Volkswagen Amarok V6


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    884
    My Cars
    79 Alpina B7 Turbo, 80 323i Baur, 79 635csi
    Wow, just noticed the windshield washer nozzles. That's a very early build car!
    79 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe #096
    79 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe #124
    80 635csi
    80 323i Baur

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    140th RHD 633CSi off of the production line. A mate of mine has the 40th RHD ever built. Early 1977.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    1,718
    My Cars
    '86 635CSi, '08 128i
    This is an astounding build! I'm amazed at your motivation and attention to detail; that car is already spectacular. I can't imagine what it'll be like on the road. Thanks for sharing your build.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    I'm very motivated. Tragic 6'er guys like Gaz and myself love this upgrading. The attention to detail is all the mechanic's. Matt is a stickler for doing it properly, no matter how long it takes. He's not big on photos though so most will have to wait until I get the car back, hopefully this Friday, and then Matt and I'll go over it with the camera, I'll take notes and then post away.

    The big stickler was the swap out of the old e12 rear subframe and the swap in of a refurbished e28 subframe complete with 3.45 LSD. This fixes the run in limp mode issue. E12 diffs, whether LSD or open, never had speed sensors. It costs $500 to trick the ECU or, it costs $450 for an e28 rear subframe.

    Matt has disassembled the e28 rear subframe, replaced all consumables, painted and by now she is installed with the LSD.

    All front and rear suspension bushes, arms etc have been replaced. She should drive as if she has just come off of the showroom floor, admittedly with a little more grunt.

    I've picked up a Landzer performance chip for the S38B38. With the overbore, complete head rebuild, sports air filter, race extractors and race but road legal exhaust setup, Matt is predicting, obviously pre dyno, 325RWHP, so close to 400hp at the flywheel. Matt and Gaz (who get's my permission for a test drive while it is still in his State, you bang it you buy it though Gaz) have both seen the previous S38B38 swap Matt did make this level of hp.

    Oh, placing the larger E34 540 callipers and disks in the rear at the moment. The big 330mm fronts will wait as the e12 chassis has dual lines per calliper and Matt and I seriously cannot be bothered doing a front brake swap yet. I'll get that done next year.

    Just a few picks attached. Hopefully not far of a complete write-up with full photos.


    chuck these. Must be 38 years old!!!!!!


    Lot's off this going in! In fact nothing 38 years old will remain!!


    All new performance stuff. I like stuff. Stuff is good.


    Swapping out the e12 rear subframe for the e28 is tricky. It needs a dummy installation, checking, removal, adjustment, 2nd dummy installation, final fabbing then off for painting, then the real installation. So 3 times the work of a like for like e28 rear subframe replacement. And lot's of measuring. Measure 5 times, cut once.


    Forgot to add this last photo. I forgot to add that Matt was so pissed off with the wiring of my car, that he spent 2 days fixing it all. Now all indicators work. The windscreen wipers work. The brake lights come on when I put my foot on the brake and not one indicator and something else.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Shipper; 06-15-2015 at 10:05 PM.
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australa
    Posts
    2,482
    My Cars
    1x633, 1x E3 2 DR Racer
    Bomb proof diff mount just arrived. I'll send this interstate to be put onto the car.

    E12 rear subframe is off. Lot's of cracks found around rear subframe to chassis areas. These have been identified, rear subframe chassis area now back to bare steel to weld up cracks.

    Then, subject to how we strengthen the rear chassis area to pick up the bomb proof diff mount, all to go in.

    Anyone completed a rear chassis stiffening? Any suggestions?

    Cracks and preparation below.

    DSCN0510_zpsrywrqgwp.jpg

    DSCN0511_zpstaqqbsao.jpg

    DSCN0512_zpshvwpgm7y.jpg

    DSCN0513_zpsyg08uvw6.jpg
    1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
    1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Southern IN
    Posts
    2,359
    My Cars
    635csi, 325is, 740il
    I suppose that depends on whether or not you intend to use the trunk. I've seen a few builds that run tubing from the top of the rear strut towers down thru the trunk floor, and the diff mounts directly to the tubing. This is usually part of a rear strut bar setup, too.

    There was one guy either on here or over on mye28.com who replaced the factory body mount with some machined bar stock. The bar stock welded to the body, and a bolt connect the diff to the new mount. That was an E28 chassis, though you should be able to do something similar.

    From my engineer's mind, I've spent a few hours laying underneath the car wondering how to stiffen up the back end on my E28-chassis, too. My aim being to avoid intrusion into the trunk area, because I actually use it. I ultimately wondered about doing a triangle tube structure that would tie in the area behind the rear seats to the uni-strut-looking (on my car) piece that the diff mounts to. Looks like that similar piece would be one that runs towards the license plate right up against the spare wheel well?

    My only other theory was to create a new rear subframe that would weld to the body, and then the trailing arms and diff would bolt to this new subframe. Ha!


    Alex

    All cars are money pits, it's just that some people love theirs more than others.

    The '85

    The '83

Page 1 of 23 1234567891011 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •