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Thread: Autosport Labs Race Capture Pro- anyone?

  1. #1
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    Autosport Labs Race Capture Pro- anyone?

    I'm getting fed up with some of the aspects of Harry's laptimer (like the last 8 mos of track days I lost today, the fact that sometimes it just doesn't record because it doesn't feel like it, etc) but surely feel like I got my $20 worth over the last four years. So, I'm looking to step up to get some real data acquisition - I am somewhat limited though because my car is OBD1. I've been looking at this : http://www.autosportlabs.net/RaceCapturePro
    but haven't seen anyone else running it. Anyone have any experience with it? Looks like an amazing product that should give me the ability to capture virtually any data I need (with the proper sensor installed) and run an android tablet as my dash. Cannot tell if I can hook up a camera to it easily however or if overlay is a complicated process. Appreciate any feedback anyone can offer. Thanks - Adam

  2. #2
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    Anyone ?

  3. #3
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    My father has one and seems to like it. The software is pretty lacking, but the hardware seems good. It's open source though so if you are so inclined it could be a huge bang for the buck. If you have any specific questions about it that you can't find answers for, PM me and I'll ask my father about it.

  4. #4
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    I am getting ready to put one in my race car, but haven't tried it yet. However, people who's opinions I trust really like it. The Android tablet as a dash is kinda neat, but I think if I wanted a digital dash I'd just save my pennies for a real one.

    What kind of data are you after? Do you want car data (RPM, oil/water temp, etc) or just track data (position, speed, g loads, etc?). If it's just track type data get yourself an AiM Solo (not the DL, just the regular one). The software is good and if you want video overlay you can use a GoPro and Dashware or get the AiM SmartyCam.

  5. #5
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    Anyone running a RaceCapture Pro these days? Pretty compelling for less than $500
    https://www.autosportlabs.com/product/racecapturepro/

  6. #6
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    Go with AiM. Primary reasons are simplicity, portability and availability of data from others to share. Tons of people use AiM and can provide you a reference lap for a given type if car/tire combo in a given 2s range for most any track. Goidvluck getting that with another system.

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  7. #7
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    Our lemons team runs a Race Capture Pro, and it works well if telemetry with (very) limited data analysis is your goal.

    Personally, I vastly prefer the AIM or Motec systems. Much better data analysis capabilities, someone at the track in a similar car to you almost is guaranteed to have a Solo/SoloDL, and you have the option for video integration. I have compared the AIM Solo vs a borrowed Racecapture + CAN input in my car, and have some thoughts. I know one of the guys on the Autosport Labs team but the product isn't right for me.

    The RCP hardware is good and very DIY friendly, but I have a few gripes that were dealbreakers for me for my own use.
    1) The RCP's data analysis suite is...minimal. Their stated goal was to not create an analysis suite like RaceStudio or i2, but rather allow you to do data analysis on any device anywhere. In theory, great. In reality....painful. You can't overlay traces right above each other on the same axis, plots don't have units (cmon, really??), comparing lap by lap is difficult, and the focus on mobile device platform independence means it's really only useful to use as monitoring, not analysis. The software is far too basic to be useful, IMO, for actual analysis instead of real time monitoring. Platform independence is great in theory, but the reality is that you're using a laptop trackside on what feels like a massively zoomed in touch-focused phone app, with all the features you'd expect from a cut down mobile browser. You're downloading the data direct to your computer, why use a clunky browser interface in the first place to analyze it? It feels like plotting lines in Excel vs analysis in Matlab, if that analogy resonates. This bothers me by far the most about the RCP system; the software really is just not up to par for the field beyond the most basic tasks.

    2) You can import the data into another free program for analysis. Great, how? Why is this not bundled with the equipment? Why must we deal with the other app that is counterproductive? Does the data come through in this other program without any issues or sync issues? To be honest, I never bothered with this method because of how irritating the primary app was, and how not-irritating doing data analysis using the Solo+RaceStudio is in comparison.

    3) It is exceedingly DIY focused. If you like to tinker with electronics and coding, this is right up your alley. Everything is configurable, from the dash layout to the sensors and channels, and (vs AIM) you have the option for CAN and analog/digital inputs with the basic device. That is way better than an initial price gouging of $2k to be able to plug in a temp sensor! That said.....if you don't like to tinker or code, and want something that you hit an on/off button on and it just works, this is not the system. I've experienced GPS connectivity issues, tablet/dash connectivity issues, and tablet overheating on track in the sun issues, all in one track day. I've not had to do the coding setup for CAN or auxiliary sensors, but even though I know how to do scripting I have little interest in having to do that.

    If it sounds like I'm harsh it's because honestly I'm underwhelmed. RaceCapture is a fantastic idea, but it is trying to be too many things for too wide an audience expecting too much DIY and techie-ness from its audience. They have the ability to seriously challenge AIM and Motec with the hardware, if changes were to be made (i.e., build a real analysis suite, drop the wgaf platform independent mobile-focused data overview, make configuration simple and not a hassle)

    So, what do I think RCP is good at? Telemetry. If your goal is to monitor car systems/laptime/driver in real time, and don't care much about data analysis, RCP is great. If you want telemetry and data analysis, either use RCP as an add-on to an AIM system, or try the data export/import into a real analysis suite. The hardware is only as good as the software, and since the software actively prevents me from being efficient and productive, I bought the AiM system instead. I wanted to like it but I don't think it's a good buy when the SoloDL exists, unless you're doing endurance racing and need the telemetry, or want to spam your facebook feed with data stream instead of baby pictures.

    /opinionated data analysis engineer with opinions
    Last edited by Bimmerman535i; 01-17-2017 at 11:22 PM.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the info. You guys elaborated on the general theme i'm picking up on:

    Aim Solo: Simple, just works, everyone has one, good analysis software. But $400 for this small simple gadget? Can i even see the tiny black/white screen on track?

    RCP: Good hardware, flexible software, "fun" in a gadgety sense, poor analysis software, likely to be "fiddly"



    Background: I currently run a homebrew datalogger/dash (http://www.projectsofdan.com/?cat=18) so I'm not afraid of techy things. However, i havent yet gotten reliable GPS based lap timing working and I'm too busy these days to keep working on it. So i've been using Harry's or TrackAddict for predictive lap timing which is ok, but a little fiddly. What i like most about my setup is probably the sequential shift light. I also use the gear indicator a surprising amount and the engine telemetry is nice.

    What i want: Better lap timing, particularly predictive lap timing, and the ability to compare data with others. I'd really like a real time predictive ahead/behind bargraph display. I'm doing TTs and want to start putting in the effort to learn and get faster. Secondarily, something fun/gadgety is appealing. I have no interest in live telemetry.

    Option 1 AiM Solo: $400
    Set it and forget it, i get my lap timer, i get good software, i get a pool of other drivers to compare with. It checks all the boxes except i can't help but feel $400 is too pricey for what it is and i wonder if i'll be happy with the display on it. I could keep running my DIY logger/dash to cover those bases. Also annoying, this setup can't control a GoPro so i'd probably still run Harry's in my pocket just to turn the GoPro on/off. That sucks.

    Option 2 RCP: $480+tablet
    This would replace all my DIY stuff, so cleaner and more robust. It would use the sensors i currently have installed/wired into the car. I could have a nifty tablet dashboard, good laptimer with good display. For another $50 (wifi module) it can control a GoPro. Apparently when the software is up to date, i can omit the BT and connect to tablet via wifi as well.

    bimmerman535, have you used their recent software? I can't say how well it works, but it clearly shows you being able to compare laps/sessions and overlay data on the tablet or on the laptop. Looks like you can plot any sensor channel vs time or distance. It might not be much more advanced than that, but that at least is possible. Their youtube channel has some demos. (can't view/link it at work)

    Also, they have a perl script that will convert their data into GEMS format. GEMS is pretty much all the analysis software you could want.

    I also kinda like the tweakability of it all. It might be fun to play with. Or it might just be a hassle, hard to say.

    The big con though is if i can't accurately compare my own data and i have no one else to compare my data to, what's the point?


    Seems like the practical solution to my problem is the Aim Solo, but the fun option is the RCP.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan View Post
    Thanks for the info. You guys elaborated on the general theme i'm picking up on:

    Aim Solo: Simple, just works, everyone has one, good analysis software. But $400 for this small simple gadget? Can i even see the tiny black/white screen on track?

    RCP: Good hardware, flexible software, "fun" in a gadgety sense, poor analysis software, likely to be "fiddly"



    Background: I currently run a homebrew datalogger/dash (http://www.projectsofdan.com/?cat=18) so I'm not afraid of techy things. However, i havent yet gotten reliable GPS based lap timing working and I'm too busy these days to keep working on it. So i've been using Harry's or TrackAddict for predictive lap timing which is ok, but a little fiddly. What i like most about my setup is probably the sequential shift light. I also use the gear indicator a surprising amount and the engine telemetry is nice.

    What i want: Better lap timing, particularly predictive lap timing, and the ability to compare data with others. I'd really like a real time predictive ahead/behind bargraph display. I'm doing TTs and want to start putting in the effort to learn and get faster. Secondarily, something fun/gadgety is appealing. I have no interest in live telemetry.

    Option 1 AiM Solo: $400
    Set it and forget it, i get my lap timer, i get good software, i get a pool of other drivers to compare with. It checks all the boxes except i can't help but feel $400 is too pricey for what it is and i wonder if i'll be happy with the display on it. I could keep running my DIY logger/dash to cover those bases. Also annoying, this setup can't control a GoPro so i'd probably still run Harry's in my pocket just to turn the GoPro on/off. That sucks.

    Option 2 RCP: $480+tablet
    This would replace all my DIY stuff, so cleaner and more robust. It would use the sensors i currently have installed/wired into the car. I could have a nifty tablet dashboard, good laptimer with good display. For another $50 (wifi module) it can control a GoPro. Apparently when the software is up to date, i can omit the BT and connect to tablet via wifi as well.

    bimmerman535, have you used their recent software? I can't say how well it works, but it clearly shows you being able to compare laps/sessions and overlay data on the tablet or on the laptop. Looks like you can plot any sensor channel vs time or distance. It might not be much more advanced than that, but that at least is possible. Their youtube channel has some demos. (can't view/link it at work)

    Also, they have a perl script that will convert their data into GEMS format. GEMS is pretty much all the analysis software you could want.

    I also kinda like the tweakability of it all. It might be fun to play with. Or it might just be a hassle, hard to say.

    The big con though is if i can't accurately compare my own data and i have no one else to compare my data to, what's the point?


    Seems like the practical solution to my problem is the Aim Solo, but the fun option is the RCP.


    Ha, it's funny how things change. When the Solo first came out it was ~$600 cheaper than the next closest option that had similar features!

    The Solo's display is actually quite readable on track, if all you're displaying is predictive time and the +/- delta. If you start displaying channels (w/ SoloDL only) then it gets a bit cluttered. I never had issues with visibility myself.

    I have not used the newest analysis software, last I messed with it was mid 2016. I've used their 'podium' system to share data with the Lemons team, but that's honestly more useful for seeing trends than anything. You're right that you can plot channels vs time/distance, but they don't line up on top of each other in the same window (or, didn't), negating much of the value IMO.

    I guess it depends what you want out of the system. I'd just Velcro the gopro remote to the center console and use that to turn the thing on/off, and get the Solo, but if you have a tablet lying around unused, don't mind (lots) of tinkering, and aren't phased by the software clunkiness, then the RCP can be a good option too, and more expandable.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  10. #10
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    Sounds like the Solo is the "right" answer, even if its not the fun one.

    I wonder if i got a Solo DL if i could make a gadget that could read all my analog sensors and output the values on a CANBUS that the DL could read and log. Hrmm.

  11. #11
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    Introductions

    Hello! I'm one of the humans behind the curtain at Autosport Labs and wanted to drop in to introduce myself, and answer any questions you might have.

    Bimmerman535i -

    Totally agree with you on a lot of the points you made, especially around how the early versions of the system were geared towards DIY'ers requiring a lot of technical know-how to get up and running. Making the system plug-and-play easy was a primary goal for the new RaceCapture we had in the Kickstarter campaign - we wanted to achieve "plug it in and hit the track" convenience with lots of automated behaviors like track detection, guided wizard-like setup, popup help and so on. The ultimate goal we have is to make the system be self-guided to the point where you don't need to refer to any documentation - at all. That's a tall order, but our goal to achieve.

    This video kind of exemplifies where we're going for automated setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3cO3CyOD5E
    And things like CAN bus and sensor presets will make easier to set things up on the system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc1Bi__0IDk

    It's kind of crazy thinking back to the MK1 system where there was no track-detection; start/finish lined needed to be manually programmed in to the Windows-only RaceAnalyzer app - that felt so long ago

    Regarding the app platform: we're definitely committed to providing an experience that works well on Windows, OSX, Android and now iOS - from small to large screens. And your right, there's a *ton* more important analysis features to write on top of what we already released as part of the Kickstarter campaign. In addition to the live telemetry capabilities, we'll add the ability to push laps/sessions up to Podium, share them with friends, and also pull down laps from your friends to compare with your own.

    This update will show how the analysis features will evolve with the paged-views to show different analysis modes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq7SeuLKIe0

    Thanks too for running the system in LeMons! Indeed, some tablets can overheat in hot weather, especially if they're not shrouded - I saw that happen myself at Thunderhill Raceway in September.


    Dan: Nice blog and projects! I was just going to say "hey we should chat" and then realized it was you!

    Thanks again for your thoughtful feedback and wisdom - we're really passionate about what we're working on and we're taking all of the lessons we've learned and using them to make a difference.
    Last edited by brentpicasso; 01-18-2017 at 06:59 PM.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for joining! I sent you a PM to not clutter up the thread.
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

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  13. #13
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    Yeah! And for the record, my DD is a '97 E36 M3 5 speed 4 door - a rare combination - 100K of miles personally applied. Only mods are suspension, including the quick ratio rack from the M-Coupe

  14. #14
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    RaceCapture Pro mk3 is out now for presale. $100 presale discount.
    https://www.autosportlabs.com/produc...apturepro-mk3/

    Looks like they integrated the bluetooth and wifi modules and added a little more I/O. Compelling offer.

  15. #15
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    I decided to pull the trigger on a mk3. It won't ship for a couple weeks, but i'll report on my experience when i get it installed. I plan to use a Amazon Fire HD 8" tablet as the dash.

    There's also a promo now, if you refer someone to buy one, you get a free sequential shiftlight. Feel free to buy and pass my name along.
    https://www.autosportlabs.com/introd...re-pre-orders/

  16. #16
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    Interested to see what you think about it. After fiddling with homebrews and an old RaceTechnology DL1 (which worked fine but no one else had one) I dropped the big bucks and bought the Aim MXS. I was building a new car and didn't have to buy any gauges at all, so I saved a couple hundred there - but in the end I don't regret the $2K and just love the thing.
    2002 BMW M Roaster.
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  17. #17
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    Nice!

    I'm mostly interested in/concerned about the visibility of the tablet dashboard with regards to glare and bright sunlight, etc. If there's a problem i might be about to shroud it to help.

    I do want to build another hardware dashboard so when i have some free time i might start that. Something with big 7segment LED numbers or something. Just big and clear and reliable. Or i could run the new AEM dashboard with it, not cheap though. Or an AIM dash for that matter.

  18. #18
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    I got 'er all wired up. I'm using AEM oil temp, water temp, oil pressure sensors plus the stock TPS, tach, and speed signals. It's all working well and is quite nifty. I'm pleased with the responsiveness of the tablet display over bluetooth. There's no lag that i can detect using the tablet vs stock tachometer for comparison.

    I have some scripting work to do next:
    • convert pulses/min to mph inorder to get speed from the speed sensor in the diff
    • an algorithm to start recording (i have a 32gig SDcard, i could probably just record ALL the time, but it could be a mess to sift through. i want to record at a track but not on the street so i need to see if there is a "trackfound" variable available. It does autodetect tracks so its in there somewhere
    • an algorithm to stop recording (probably when battery voltage drops below 13V which means the motor is off)
    • an equation to calculate what gear i'm in
    Last edited by TXBDan; 04-08-2017 at 05:09 PM.

  19. #19
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    TXBDan, any updates on this? How are you liking it? I have been using Harry's laptimer with an external GPS for data logging and it is leaving me wanting more, more, more data! I found this thread and the Racecapture MK3. Looks like it can support everything I want from my E36 using built in and external sensors. RPM, Speed, Throttle Position, Water Temp, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure. What about braking? Is there any way to detect that via an external sensor?

  20. #20
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    This my summary from this thread: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ht=racecapture

    I just finished up a season with a RaceCapture Pro mk3. I'm running WT/OT/OP/TPS/tach/diffspeed sensors to it as well as using a Fire HD 8 tablet for a dash.

    Great:
    Hardware
    Data logging
    Tablet as a dash
    ShiftX2 shift light
    Predictive lap timer

    Less great:
    Fiddly scripting required for many things including ShiftX2 setup. I've overrun my LUA scripting memory causing lots of crashing until i fixed it
    Tablet based analysis software is too simple and a little slow/clunky to use (might be my tablet)

    Lesser great:
    "real" software for analysis doesn't exist.
    browsing log files is a bear (i spent an hour trying to find my time trial log the other night)
    Data incompatible with other platforms so can't compare with friends on AIM

    Conclusion: It's fun as a project/tinkering. Great hardware logger. Great dashboard. Not good at data analysis and thus driver improvement. I think i'm going to have to throw an Aim Solo in the car for next year just to be able to learn/compare with other drivers
    Granted, even since I wrote that in Feb, many software features have been added and i haven't had a chance to test them out.

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