UPDATE: Mechanical Tensioner Pulley Dayco 89133 vs Gates 38018

[cnn]

This is to give people an UPDATE on this Mechanical Tensioner Pulley issue...


There have been a few threads on mechanical pulleys bought at Autozone (under Duralast PN 23133) and Advance Auto (under Dayco 89133), were made by INA back in 2011, 2012 or so. This is no longer the case, the PNs mentioned above have the box saying "Made in Germany" but the bearing is "C&U", a Chinese company. See the thread below.


DAYCO 81933 mechanical tesioner pulley (No longer made by Ina?) - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums




Part stores keep changing their supply over time, so you need to physically inspect the pulley before buying it! Anyway, this is the latest...


I was at Autozone yesterday looking at PN 23133 and the box says "Made in Germany" but the bearing is "C&U", and they have the nerve to sell it for $30! Needless to say, I walked away...


Went to NAPA and looked at Gates 38018 $18 with L.T. warranty.
I have not been to OReilly parts store, but their website lists the same Gates 38018 for $16 with only 1-yr warranty.


So I bought the NAPA Gates 38018. I have not installed it yet but looking at it, it is high-quality stuff. The bearing is the standard 6203LU bearing, which in this particular pulley, made by NTN, a Japanese company that has factory in Canada. The construction is solid, the bearing is nice and tight, no play.


I think you can trust this Gates 38018 pulley!




Anyway, photos of the Duralast/Dayco "C&U" bearings vs Gates 38018 for your eyes only...



E39Pulley1.JPG



E39Pulley2.JPG

[TriniSpeC]

I'd trust dayco products second to continental only because Evo's use dayco timing belts

[cnn]

I'd trust dayco products second to continental only because Evo's use dayco timing belts

Just do a search and you will see this Chinese bearing failing as early as 5K miles.
This pulley is used in many many cars, from BMW, to Toyota, to Chrysler etc.
Tons of posts on the web about this "C&U" bearing.

It is not Dayco vs Gates.
What counts is what is actually in the box.

[16valex]

the box saying "Made in Germany" but the bearing is "C&U", a Chinese company

This is so wrong..Thanks for the heads up.

[cnn]

This is so wrong..Thanks for the heads up.

This is my theory, in the past Duralast and Dayco pulley had INA in the box, so they printed the box "Made in Germany", which was correct.
Fast forward to 2014, these companies switched supplier and didn't bother re-printing the label.

[AK_5eries]

CNN, is there a way to search for Gates pulleys by size? Dayco website has a search by size function.

[cnn]

CNN, is there a way to search for Gates pulleys by size? Dayco website has a search by size function.

It is not the size issue, the Dayco will fit perfectly, but fitment is not the issue; the issue is the Chinese bearing.
Trust me, I have done tons of research and visit these stores and update you guys with the latest info.

If you have mech tensioner, your options are:

1. Gates 38018 for $16-$18 and move on. This is good stuff, NTN bearing made in Canada, our neighbor up North...

2. Buy the whole tensioner assembly made by INA for $50.

Don't even try anything else, wasting your time...

[AK_5eries]

Thanks. I understand its the bearing issue. I just wanted to expand on the capability of searching for pulleys by size.

[cnn]

Thanks. I understand its the bearing issue. I just wanted to expand on the capability of searching for pulleys by size.

If you go to diff websites (OReilly, Gates, Dayco etc.), they will list it.

Example Gates 38018:
W = 26mm
ID = 17mm
OD = 70mm


http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...ATE/38018.oap?

[geargrinder]

This is my theory, in the past Duralast and Dayco pulley had INA in the box, so they printed the box "Made in Germany", which was correct.
Fast forward to 2014, these companies switched supplier and didn't bother re-printing the label.

Almost decidedly that is not the case. Manufacturing origin and labeling is pretty damn strict. I'm not sayin fake packaging never comes out of Asia but big mainstream parts like this usually have legit labels. HOWEVER, the explanation to your well sleuthed discovery is probably that the unit is actually final assembled in Germany - aka they stuff the bearing in the plastic pulley in Germany - and that allows them to keep the German mfg label. And a lot of companies now know the Made In China label can hurt them so they source the parts cheaply over there but then find ways to do final assembly "at home" to get the right label and still claim they mfr locally.

BTW I would normally rip a thread like this for being just groundlessly anti-Chinese, as the quality of China stuff is increasing over time as would be expected, and some stuff can be perfectly excellent (often because they've bought the machines and technology from the Germans/Americans/Japanese), but if there's a whole C&U bearing known issue deal I'll trust you that this is legit... But sooner or later it won't matter - remember Japanese used to be a synonym for cheap crap and now it's generally considered a quality origin.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks. I understand its the bearing issue. I just wanted to expand on the capability of searching for pulleys by size.

Thats very good idea. Most of these pulleys are not OEM specific but are industry sized and there's tons of crossovers even if it's painful to wade through what may or may not work. We had similar issue w/ the pulleys on my Audi 20V turbo - you couldn't get the pulley stand alone from Audi or the auto part channel so you had to throw down for a crazy $$$ entire tensioner - but eventually a couple guys in the community worked through enough cross overs to find some Volvo parts that worked perfectly. For a while guys were actually pressing the bearings out of old pulleys and replacing those but the Volvo pulley was a quick and easy bolt-in and relatively cheap. And ironically in the same vein - I just tracked down the proper tensioner for my M62 VF supercharger kit and it in fact is a Dayco item used on GM 5.7L V8's. So intead of paying VF some crazy markup and waiting a week I got a brand new one at Advanced Auto in 3 minutes. The VF pulley for it is 'special' however, but I bought a US-made premium bearing for the old one and pressed that in. Voila. Brand new tensioner and pulley for microfraction of the 'official' price.

Good stuff.

[AK_5eries]

Yah crossovers are invaluable.

Hopefully some day when I have time, I'm going to pull every pulley on my front end, measure and match part numbers based on size from dayco, gates, etc so that we can have a complete database. Instead of, like you said, paying big bucks for the full assemblies.

What's nice is that I think most of the pulley sizes on all e39 are similar if not the same.

[cnn]

@geargrinder,

I am not anti-Chinese, some of the stuff they produce are good. Examples: your laptop, your cell phone etc., basically American technology made in China.

China has tons of factories making bearings. If you go to bearing forums, even the Chinese engineers admit that their mfg specs are still below Japanese and German bearings. Go there and read it.

I have had my share of Chinese bearings, no more for me. Until they get better, I am not using Chinese bearings.

[16valex]

I too have had too many run-ins with Chinese made, this is going back for over 40 years not just a few years. I will avoid anything Chinese made as long as I live.

[geargrinder]

If you go to bearing forums, even the Chinese engineers admit that their mfg specs are still below Japanese and German bearings. Go there and read it.

No need - like I said I def take your word that that's a known deal...

I too have had too many run-ins with Chinese made, this is going back for over 40 years not just a few years. I will avoid anything Chinese made as long as I live.

Yeah see that's being silly. Long term learning curve. Outsourced licensed technologies. Changing domestic demand standards. These are all scientific engineering & economic realities. As time goes on your 40yr old experience is becoming less and less valid. And will continue to. Some 80yr old dudes are probably still running around saying "don't buy japanese it's cheap garbage!" because they are living in a past that means nothing. Deal in facts and updated ones, not presumption and sweeping generalizations. Again not saying there's not junk that comes from China. Just that not everything is, and that things will continue to change.

[16valex]

Yeah see that's being silly. Long term learning curve. Outsourced licensed technologies. Changing domestic demand standards. These are all scientific engineering & economic realities. As time goes on your 40yr old experience is becoming less and less valid. And will continue to. Some 80yr old dudes are probably still running around saying "don't buy japanese it's cheap garbage!" because they are living in a past that means nothing. Deal in facts and updated ones, not presumption and sweeping generalizations. Again not saying there's not junk that comes from China. Just that not everything is, and that things will continue to change.

You will increase your risk of doing the job again in a short time if you buy Chinese made, I don't have time for that, do it once and done.
My first five cars were Celica and supra back in the 80's. I loved them back then.

[PendletonCowboy]

I just bought the Napa 38018 as shown above today for $18.49 each. They have the NTN bearings and dimensionally are the same as the Dayco 89133 HOWEVER the bolt cover will not fit on the Napa 38018. As you can see from the photo above the edge is bevelled and rounded unlike the factory INA brand.

[cnn]

So,

Does it eventually fit, did you have to make any modification?
Please post some photos of what you meant.

- - - Updated - - -

I just bought the Napa 38018 as shown above today for $18.49 each. They have the NTN bearings and dimensionally are the same as the Dayco 89133 HOWEVER the bolt cover will not fit on the Napa 38018. As you can see from the photo above the edge is bevelled and rounded unlike the factory INA brand.

Now I understand what you meant re Gates 38018.
Since the Gates 38018's edge is somewhat round, the "Pulley Plastic Cover" does not have an edge to snap on.
It has been discussed in different forums.
Most people do either:

1. Leave the Pulley Plastic Cover off. Since the car has a plastic shield anyway, water etc. usually does not get to the pulley.

2. Apply a tiny bit of RTV around the edge of the Pulley Plastic Cover, then stick it on, let it cure a bit, then it should be good.

If anyone has experience with this issue re Gates 38018, please post...

I am posting a photo of the Factory Pulley so people know what we are talking about...

[Jason5driver]

The SKF pulley from AutoHausAZ is the same way...
The cover doesn't really fit.
IMO, just get the OE INA pulley replacement.
Thanks,
Jason

[philly98540]

For the pre TU 540's these are a direct bolt on and seem well made:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00

These are Dayco 89052's. NTN bearings and solid metal pulley. I used these at all three of my pulley locations. No noises or issues so far, but its still early.

I think two of the TU pulleys are the same as these, but the one of them is a bit larger iirc.

[cnn]

Another update Dec. 2015...


I finally installed Gates 38018 pulley for my 2006 X5 M54 engine. The Gates 38018 pulley fits well, the only issue (described in different forums) is that: one can't use the factory dust cap because the Gates pulley has round edge and thus the dust cap does not fit.
Being a bit "OCD", I smeared a bit of grease on the outside just to cover it up: I don't think this is necessary at all.


So, I was looking for parts for my 2005 XC90 2.5T and happen to see the serpentine belt pulley INA 8627994 = Gates 36313.


I did some checking, and this very INA pulley might have been the pulley that was placed inside Autozone Duralast box a few years ago (not sure, but I think so).


For comparison purpose:
Gates 36313: OD= 70 mm; ID = 26 mm, Bore = 17 mm
Gates 38018: OD= 70 mm; ID = 25 mm, Bore = 17 mm


So, I am thinking those who want to use the factory dust cap may want to explore the option of INA 8627994. If you do, please report back whether it fits or not. Between 25 vs 26 mm, I think it is a non-issue.

[blarf]

It looks like there are three compatible pulleys that NAPA stocks (38018, 36313, and 89144 / 219301). Today I found a NAPA that had all three in stock and took a look. Three cheap Chinese bearings. Looks like I'm just going to order the whole tensioner assembly.

[TerraPhantm]

BMW part number 11287549557 works. It comes with a bolt and mounting plate; throw those away and use the stock bolt. I bought the INA branded version and it works fine. Ever so slightly thicker than the stock pulley, but it's the same diameter and isn't thick enough to actually interfere.

[blarf]

BMW part number 11287549557 works. It comes with a bolt and mounting plate; throw those away and use the stock bolt. I bought the INA branded version and it works fine. Ever so slightly thicker than the stock pulley, but it's the same diameter and isn't thick enough to actually interfere.

Good to know. That crossreferences to INA 532034210. From BMW it's about $50, the whole tensioner (INA brand) is about $55, and yeah INA 532034210 on its own is about half that. The stock pulley is 25x70, this one is 26x70mm.

[TerraPhantm]

$20 on ECS: https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Sit...557/ES2652122/

Their pictures don't show a cap, but mine came with one. And it's identical to the stock cap.

[cnn]

Get the Volvo one I mentioned earlier.