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Thread: Need a little bit of Noob advice on a mid power build.

  1. #1
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    Need a little bit of Noob advice on a mid power build.

    Im currently looking to slowly piece together a turbo kit for my 98 328is. Ive got other more important things to focus on with this car as it is my "drift" build and ive got other stuff i need to buy/focus on. I would just like to have an idea of what i need to look for incase i come across any deals i just cant pass up. My goal for the car is a lowly 300hp, with a max of 400hp. im hoping this can be done on mostly stock internals. ARP studs and MLS headgasket (maybe) seems about all i think i may need. Like i said 300hp is the goal, anything more is just . Anyway onto the area where i need a bit of advice.

    Looking at manifolds i think the SPA seems to be the best choice, i was just wondering if there was anything else i should be looking at that is in that price range ($400-$500)as well. top/bottom mount, dont really care, i can work with whatever it is i have. i was also looking at the CXracing manifold, but i really dont feel comfortable with the chinese/taiwan manufacture of it. someones thread from less than a month ago said his was cracked in 2 places.

    turbo - i honestly have no idea what turbo i should be looking for. I dotn want to spent a bunch for a turbo, so something commonly available would be cool. i was thinking maybe a Holset, but i dont like the idea of running big turbo diesel turbo on my build especially since im not looking for big numbers. Are there any widely available cheap turbos that i should be looking for? i dont want any chinese knockoff ebay junk. but i also dont wanna drop $1k on a brand new turbo.

    intercooler kit - i was looking at the CXracing kit as far as piecing one together. any thoughts on this? should i be looking elsewhere? http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...Category_Code=


    thanks for any input you guys may have.
    Last edited by RandomHero27; 06-26-2014 at 07:07 PM.

  2. #2
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    Spa manifold is excellent. Cheap, reliable, and can make great power. There is a member on here pushing 700+ on one.

    As far as turbo's, you may want to look into precision journal bearing turbos and Borg Warner an oem supplier.

    Cxracing intercooler is fine. Go big. Or for a little more I really do like my treadstone intercooler. I would stick to a quality wastegate and bov.

    Most important its addicting and only gets more expensive! Beware!


    -sold...replaced by turbo e36

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeasy View Post
    Spa manifold is excellent. Cheap, reliable, and can make great power. There is a member on here pushing 700+ on one.

    As far as turbo's, you may want to look into precision journal bearing turbos and Borg Warner an oem supplier.

    Cxracing intercooler is fine. Go big. Or for a little more I really do like my treadstone intercooler. I would stick to a quality wastegate and bov.

    Most important its addicting and only gets more expensive! Beware!
    thanks for the reply and info. i know not to skimp on the wastegate. and as far as the BOV, this may go against what everyone thinks and believes, but i come from owning MR2s and a few of them, and other car models that are turbod have a small group that dont belive in BOVs, and i happen to be one of those people. i love the sound of turbo dose. but, i can see it getting annoying so a BOV may happen, its just not in the initial plans.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomHero27 View Post
    and as far as the BOV, this may go against what everyone thinks and believes, but i come from owning MR2s and a few of them, and other car models that are turbod have a small group that dont belive in BOVs, and i happen to be one of those people. i love the sound of turbo dose. but, i can see it getting annoying so a BOV may happen, its just not in the initial plans.
    Don't believe in BOV's???? Care to elaborate why? There is a very good reason for the BOV, its not what we 'believe', its physics. You will destroy your compressor without a BOV or DV..
    "There are bold drivers and there are old drivers, but there are no bold, old drivers."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdmbmw View Post
    Don't believe in BOV's???? Care to elaborate why? There is a very good reason for the BOV, its not what we 'believe', its physics. You will destroy your compressor without a BOV or DV..
    well it starts with the RX7 (the first car to feature an OEM bypass valve). in the original RX7 owner manual, it is stated that the bypass valve was to "quiet" the turbo. basically a comfort feature.

    the "science" is that when the throttle plate closes, the 11lbs of boost in the system does not change directions and flow against the turbo. it hits the throttle plate and "stops", and the choochoochoochoo sound you hear is air escaping by the compressor blades, not COMPRESSOR SURGE as companies want you to believe. air basically leaking out of the opening, not enough to cause any damage. why do this? instead of a BOV opening and venting all 11lbs to nowhere, this leaves a little in the pipes. so when you get back on throttle you have some boost still in the pipes to create more boost (it takes boost to make boost). alot of turbo race teams dont run BOVs, but the argument there is they are race teams and rebuild parts all the time. but on the street level, unless you are running a heavy setup with like 60lbs, your not really gonna do anything to the turbo off boost.

    the compressor surge ON boost, that is what you dont want.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomHero27 View Post
    well it starts with the RX7 (the first car to feature an OEM bypass valve). in the original RX7 owner manual, it is stated that the bypass valve was to "quiet" the turbo. basically a comfort feature.

    the "science" is that when the throttle plate closes, the 11lbs of boost in the system does not change directions and flow against the turbo. it hits the throttle plate and "stops", and the choochoochoochoo sound you hear is air escaping by the compressor blades, not COMPRESSOR SURGE as companies want you to believe. air basically leaking out of the opening, not enough to cause any damage. why do this? instead of a BOV opening and venting all 11lbs to nowhere, this leaves a little in the pipes. so when you get back on throttle you have some boost still in the pipes to create more boost (it takes boost to make boost). alot of turbo race teams dont run BOVs, but the argument there is they are race teams and rebuild parts all the time. but on the street level, unless you are running a heavy setup with like 60lbs, your not really gonna do anything to the turbo off boost.

    the compressor surge ON boost, that is what you dont want.
    Your noob title fooled me, and here you are teaching folks to go against the grain. I'm really kicking myself for installing that second BOV on my car. What was I thinking?

    BTW, what opening are you talking about?
    WOT

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeasy View Post
    Spa manifold is excellent. Cheap, reliable, and can make great power. There is a member on here pushing 700+ on one.

    As far as turbo's, you may want to look into precision journal bearing turbos and Borg Warner an oem supplier.

    Cxracing intercooler is fine. Go big. Or for a little more I really do like my treadstone intercooler. I would stick to a quality wastegate and bov.

    Most important its addicting and only gets more expensive! Beware!
    those precision "entry levels" look good. i guess i need to figure out which one would be better suited for a 328is turbo. http://www.precisionturbo.net/turboc...rbochargers/18

    unfortunately any googling of applications where they are used show alot of hondas using them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hsvturbo View Post
    Your noob title fooled me, and here you are teaching folks to go against the grain. I'm really kicking myself for installing that second BOV on my car. What was I thinking?

    BTW, what opening are you talking about?
    i dont mean to argue or claim i know anything about turbos, and i dont intent to argue, but if you took it that way, im sorry. i just noticed one day that a few mr2 guys were going with completely closed systems, and i started researching it and found that there are alot of people that actually build BOV-less setups, and not just in the mr2 world. and by opening i meant past the compressor blades and through the intake side.

  8. #8
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    If the air is going back out the compressor to the intake it is stalling the compressor, which is hard on the turbo. Not many turbo makers sell BOV so I doubt there is a big conspiracy. If you don't want the noise, use a bypass or diverter valve to recirculate back to the intake like on oem turbo cars.
    Last edited by pbonsalb; 06-27-2014 at 07:52 AM.

  9. #9
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    No I'm not arguing, it's just an interesting idea, but I'm not buying it. Personally, I went with a second BOV because when I up the boost on my 72mm, I got surge between shifts. So to me, this surge basically stops the wheel, and thus a lag getting back into the throttle. My hope with two BOV' is, they will bleed off the air so the wheel maintains enough momentum that I have boost going back into the throttle after the shift. Plus I like the sound of BOV. Yes obnoxious.

    Maybe with a smaller turbo, a no BOV willwork for you? Should be interesting.
    WOT

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomHero27 View Post
    well it starts with the RX7 (the first car to feature an OEM bypass valve). in the original RX7 owner manual, it is stated that the bypass valve was to "quiet" the turbo. basically a comfort feature.

    the "science" is that when the throttle plate closes, the 11lbs of boost in the system does not change directions and flow against the turbo. it hits the throttle plate and "stops", and the choochoochoochoo sound you hear is air escaping by the compressor blades, not COMPRESSOR SURGE as companies want you to believe. air basically leaking out of the opening, not enough to cause any damage. why do this? instead of a BOV opening and venting all 11lbs to nowhere, this leaves a little in the pipes. so when you get back on throttle you have some boost still in the pipes to create more boost (it takes boost to make boost). alot of turbo race teams dont run BOVs, but the argument there is they are race teams and rebuild parts all the time. but on the street level, unless you are running a heavy setup with like 60lbs, your not really gonna do anything to the turbo off boost.

    the compressor surge ON boost, that is what you dont want.
    Really it just stops?? So the turbo is still spinning when the throttle plate closes, bringing air in and has no where to go... But instead of finding the path of least resistance it just stops and hangs out, you know despite all that pressure... Thats science? Seriously?
    Last edited by cdmbmw; 06-27-2014 at 11:06 AM.
    "There are bold drivers and there are old drivers, but there are no bold, old drivers."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomHero27 View Post
    the "science" is that when the throttle plate closes, the 11lbs of boost in the system does not change directions and flow against the turbo. it hits the throttle plate and "stops", and the choochoochoochoo sound you hear is air escaping by the compressor blades, not COMPRESSOR SURGE as companies want you to believe. air basically leaking out of the opening, not enough to cause any damage. why do this? instead of a BOV opening and venting all 11lbs to nowhere, this leaves a little in the pipes. so when you get back on throttle you have some boost still in the pipes to create more boost (it takes boost to make boost). alot of turbo race teams dont run BOVs, but the argument there is they are race teams and rebuild parts all the time. but on the street level, unless you are running a heavy setup with like 60lbs, your not really gonna do anything to the turbo off boost.

    the compressor surge ON boost, that is what you dont want.
    I have to agree with hsvturbo, cdmbmw and pbonsalb. In the reading I have done one of the main functions of the BOV is to vent boost between shifts which allows the turbo to maintain its momentum and reduce lag when back on throttle. Of course the BOV has to be set up properly and open soon enough for this to happen.

    As for the turbos don't be fooled by the diesel turbos, they are not not actually that large compared to the turbos most guys here use. The holset hx35 is smaller than a sizeable majority actually. But honestly I don't know why anyone would spend any money on and "old" turbo (apart from extreme budget junkyard builds or rebuilt turbos) when you can get brand new BW s200 and s300 series turbos for less than $650. For your goals I would have a good look at the S200 series.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodsy View Post
    when you can get brand new BW s200 and s300 series turbos for less than $650. For your goals I would have a good look at the S200 series.
    thanks for this info. tha s200 series looks like it would be about perfect for what im looking for. you wouldnt happen to have any links for tham near that price would you? the only ones im seeing are ~$1k. unless you are speaking of used prices.

  13. #13
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    I believe one someguy2800 on this forum used this website.

    http://www.smedingdiesel.com/mobile/...y.aspx?id=1725

    Sorry if the link doesn't work, I am on my phone. Smeding diesel is the company, Google them.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodsy View Post
    I believe one someguy2800 on this forum used this website.

    http://www.smedingdiesel.com/mobile/...y.aspx?id=1725

    Sorry if the link doesn't work, I am on my phone. Smeding diesel is the company, Google them.
    awesome! thanks man

  15. #15
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    Just shoot for 400 and hope to land at 300 hahah. I'm shooting for 400-500+ because I know 500 is not going to pleasure me enough.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by runsideways2 View Post
    Just shoot for 400 and hope to land at 300 hahah. I'm shooting for 400-500+ because I know 500 is not going to pleasure me enough.
    sounds like a solid idea.


    doing some research and the BW seem to run a bit big and hefty, anyone have any ida if there will be any clearance problems with a SPA bottommount and a BW S256?

  17. #17
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    If I am not mistaken one person on this forum fit an s300 series with a little block grinding on the spa manifold. I can't remember who it was though, hopefully they chime in. Also just looking at Google images of the s200 and the s300 there is a pretty significant difference in size, but maybe the s200 still doesn't give any extra clearance on the side where you need it. It is hard to tell from the pictures I saw. If I was a betting man I would bet the s200 would fit fine if the s300 *fits* on the spa manifold, however that is nothing but speculation.

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