Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 42

Thread: Up before six

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hyperworld
    Posts
    585
    My Cars
    '97 840CI

    Up before six

    An e31 840Ci gets the M62B46 permanently borrowed from an X5 4.6iS.
    A cam controller box augments the original DME.

    This post:
    * Mechanicals
    * Vanos backgrounder
    * Cam controller
    * Dyno & road results

    Engine Swap ***************


    The outbound engine is the M62B44 with 4.4 liters, 10.0 CR, and is non-vanos, standard cam profile.
    The inbound engine is the rare M62B46 which has 4.6 liters, 10.5 compression ratio, single vanos, and relatively aggressive cam.
    It's what BMW could-have should-have done with the 840 during the same time frame as the Alpina e34/39 variants.

    If you are underwhelmed by this pic and don't see any thing unusual, then I've succeeded.
    This project retains the stock mechanical throttle and acoustic cover.
    BS check: Vanos style covers but e31 lightpods and various e31 style features. Not an e38/39.



    The Ultimate BS Check:
    Heads are stamped on the intake side, '14' (cylinder range) towards the rear of the engine, '58' towards the front.


    Unfortunately, neither head stamp is visible while the engine is installed unless the intake manifold is removed.
    IOW, under normal conditions just described, and aside from model specific acoustic covers, axle tubes, etc, you can't tell a B46 from a TUB44.
    Archives will reveal Bimmerfixr doing a crate B46 swap into an e38 but it replaced a TUB44 with later DME. Documentation is, uhm, limited.

    Removal & Installation
    ..was trouble-free with picky exceptions noted below.
    Beginners might want to budget two days each direction.
    Having done it once and then vetted the procedure into a writeup, I guess I could repeat using 4 hours each direction.
    A pro shop, especially with an under-car trench, could drop this down to 2-1/2 hrs each way.
    A "How-To: Swap a V8 in 5 hours" is coming but probably to a separate thread.

    In between going and coming, there may be several hours spent on additional part swapping between engines.
    - mechanical throttle,
    - a/c compressor,
    - steering pump
    - fuel rail
    - exhaust manifolds
    - accessory belt tensioner.
    - oil level sensor
    - a half-dozen anchor brackets

    Conversion from AWD *****************************************
    For the most part the M62TU vanos engines are a mechanical drop-in to the e31's M62B44.
    The exception is with the B46 which was only available on the all-wheel-drive (AWD) X5.
    Therefore it always comes to us with the front axle tube passing thru the oil sump.


    The X5 engine may be converted to a RWD application merely by swapping parts.
    A detailed How-To will get posted, probably on this thread since the need is so special cased.
    Here a sneek peek at a couple noteworthies.

    The e31/38/39 pan is retrofitted along with a compatible pump. The e53 pump reached futher down and back.


    The e53 pump drive chain is shorter than what is required for the e31/38/39.
    The e31/38/39 pump drive chain has 52 links while the e53 is has only 50 and therefore won't reach the shaft on the new pump.


    A change in sump then motivates the retrofit of an internal style PCV system. The critical problem was that the e31/38/39 oil pan lacked the oil return port for the X5 style cyclone. A second problem has to do with the routing of the ventilation hoses to/from the cyclone. The e53 style has these two hoses routing over the top of the intake manifold, under the taller acoustic cover. The hoodline on the e31 sandwiches the cover down onto the intake manifold leaving no room for the hoses. A third problem is that the e31 wiring boxes do not anticipate the hose port on the valve cover. Therefore the X5 style PCV cyclone was changed from external (left pic) to internal style (right) with retrofit of associated plumbing.


    Powdercoat
    Just do it.
    But first toss your e53 left cover with its support for an external cyclone and get an TUB44 left cover that has the pcv hose port plugged internally. You might also try a threading the original port. Capping the port securely is an option but would require still a larger hole in the box to accommodate a band clamp.


    Brackets
    Several brackets must migrate to e31 friendly versions in order to install the engine and mount the e31 a/c compressor, steering pump and belt tensioner. The e31, no joke, has the oil filter lines passing thru the engine mounting bracket.


    Coolant hoses
    Whereas the the stock e31 hoses were band-clamped to both the manifold and radiator, the later version of the water manifold requires clip-on style hose ends and also a return path for the water cooled alternator. There is no hose in the bmw catalog that has the TUB clip style on the engine end and e31 chopped style on the radiator end. The solution was to merge and e31 hose to an e39 fitting.


    Alternator cable and sensing
    The stock e31 has connections on the rear of the (air cooled) alternator, where as the vanos engine has the cable at the front of the (water cooled) alternator, with different end styles. To avoid building a complete new alternator cable the X5 donates its alternator cable end which is then grafted onto the stock e31 cable. There are some mods to routing, seeing that the stock e31 had the cable passing thru a metal tube to get around the front of the (non-vanos) cylinder head. Across the valley, the orignal e31 conduit/sheathing had become brittle and so was replaced by fresh high-temp silicon in the same style.


    Static compression check.
    180 - 190 PSI all.



    -- More --

    - - - Updated - - -

    In this variable cam engine, the intake cam may be advanced up to 40 degrees crankshaft rotation from a default position depending on engine load and rpm. The cam advance is typically a function of engine load and rpm with modifications for coolant temperature and air temperature.


    The 124-84=40 range is in crankshaft degrees, whereas the '20' in the above pic is in cam degrees.


    Pic notes: Cam params (lift, duration) are probably from the M62TUB44, not the B46.

    A static/fixed/permanent advance of the intake cam would…
    - Increase max torque
    - Shift the torque curve to lower rpms
    - Narrow powerband
    - Increase emissions
    - Increase idle roughness
    - Increase chance of engine knock

    A dynamic mapping (Advancd vs RPM & Load) allows us to pick the positive items from the list and avoid the negatives. A typical mapping holds the cam at full retard at idle for smoothness and emissions control, then advances the cams in the mid range for volumetric efficiency (read max torque), then retards again in the upper range to stretch out the power band. It's difficult to see from this chart rotation but the cam advance drops off on the far side of the tent, to defend against knock at high load.


    BMW supplies us with a lovely comparison which demonstrates some of the predictions. However this comparison is somewhat inconclusive since the other simultaneous change, M62B44 ā M62TUB44, is that the intake manifold was slimmed for additional torque at the low end. Compared to the M62B44, the TUB44 torque curve peaks slightly higher and sooner. Note that if it wasn't for a brief kick-up in the torque curve at 3600, the TUB44 would more honestly be rated at 320 ft/lbs vs. 310 in the B44 and 305 in the B40. In the B46, the factory reverts to the fatter manifold to stretch the top end but more than makes up the torque loss by adding displacement, compression and cam profile to fill the bottom end.


    After this particular engine swap, the engine could actually run quite well on the stock DME. So why bother controlling the cam?
    Short answer: it won't deliver the promised torque below the mid-range rpms. The cam on the non-vanos engine is a compromise between smooth idle at low speed and increased torque in the mid rpm range. A variable cam doesn't require this compromise and can return both a smooth idle with low emissions and and also higher torque. The problem is that if it is stuck in the default position with great idle, then all else equal (size,cam profile,manifold), you may actually suffer less torque below mid range compared to the non-vanos engine.

    Here is the current example of this concept using my dyno data. With the cam stuck in the full retard position, in the lower rpm range, the B46 (red) engine actually delivered far less torque than the stock B44 (blue). Even so, the B46 with its bigger cam and higher compression was able to hang onto the torque much further into the top end and so ended up producing about 30 more horsepower making the e31/b46 slightly faster, 0-to-60.



    Vanos controller *****************************
    This project adds a custom vanos controller, which I've named ETV for Electronic Throttle Vanos. Hardware and software, it's 100% my own design and completely unrelated to the Nubian T-14.


    ETV is added to the back slot of the e-box, physically and electrically in parallel with the stock DME5.2 (removed for pic clarity). The DME isn't aware that it's controlling a vanos engine nor is it aware of the presence of the vanos controller. My fearless prediction is that, in combination with ETV, a stock DME5.2 could also drive either the M62B48 or S62B50.


    The good news is that the stock DME is unchanged in any way. To paraphrase: If you like your DME, you can keep it. The bad news is that the DME is unchanged in any way. The stock e31 has tuning biased towards economy operations and targeted emissions, with the AFR permanently stuck in the high 14's even under WOT. Therefore we are not expecting 4.6iS power out of the B46 just yet, but we are expecting good economy and a noticable bump in torque. To improve on this situation we would need to take over spark and fueling, while staying true to OBDII and remaining e31 friendly.

    -- More --

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Face of ETV
    On the center console a display panel shows system info and allows for configuration. This character matrix is by Matrix Orbital, a canadian company iirc. Many thumbs-up but many alternatives out of China. Faceplate is by me. Rocker switches flip pages, scroll screens, tab fields, change values, and select the selectable. In the lower right corner, a mini-B USB connection to get out to a netbook. Standard-A conn for USB sticks and keyboards is not installed yet.
    [IMG]http://www.hyperworld.com/BMW/Engine/UpB46/bmwB46etvdisplay4better2.jpg[/IMG


    Green if you like. The display mounting bracket took three days in the shop to figure out how to bolt up to the display, bolt onto the faceplate and also install into an unmodified e31console. On the screen you see a few new sensors: Manifold Air Pressure, BARometer (not installed), and This Box Temp. Hydraulics (pump, brakes, steering) are still around on another page.


    Thanks go to Wuffer for providing a spare MID for my development bench (photo bombing the far upper left). ETV sits on the I-bus, K-bus, M-bus and CAN-bus. The MID-OBC is/was used for 'hacking the e31 I-bus' on the bench top. An M-bus gateway to the CDC is on the todo list but becomes useful only if we either remote the display to the glove, use the MID as ETV output or have ETV completely replace MID.

    Do The Math
    There are several display pages devoted to the development of the cam control. On this page we observe the calculations for cam advance and what the controller intends to do about it. An edge of the CAS signal has arrived at the controller following the arrival of crank tooth CR:102 (out of 120) on the crankshaft signal. In this application my reference point for a fully retarded right-side (cyls1-4) cam is tooth R:103. So at this level of abstraction (not shown in the pic) the cam advance from the default retard position is 103-102 = 1 crank tooth and with a crank tooth equal to 6 degrees of crank rotation, the advance is roughed in at 6 degrees.


    Because the microprocessor is WAY faster than the crank tooths flying by, even as the engine spins at 100 times per second, we get to divide crank tooths up into smaller units and I've used sixteenth tooths. In this example, the CAS edge actually arrived at crank tooth 102 plus 14 sixteenths of a tooth, whereas the reference point in full retard is tooth 103 plus 6 sixteenths. The difference is 16-8=8 sixteenths of a tooth (pic AD: 8) and with this higher precision, we now know more precisely that right-side cam has actually advanced by only 3 degrees. Meanwhile the controller, looking at the load (only 3 out of 255 because the transmission is in park) and rpm (1935), wants the advance to be only 3 sixteenths (TGT: 3 out of 104) rather than 8 sixteenths. The reaction by the controller will then be to pull back on the vanos actuator power from its current level (LV:206 out of 255). The vanos actuator is very responsive and this descrepancy between target and actual advance can be resolved within one revolution of the camshaft.
    Repeat the above at up to 100 times a second.

    Tuner's corner
    There is an app at the other end of the USB cable. The animated gauges were shamelessly stolen from an e31. The alternate tab brings up map editting and file I/0. Unfortunately this app became stale while the under-hood box was developed, and wasn't available just before and during dyno testing. Moving forward, this is what will get attention.


    Variable thermostat
    The e31 with vanos engine is immediately driveable on just the stock DME with one exception: the variable thermostat defaults to maximum coolant temperature. This is what you get when you don't provide power (about 1 amp max) to the thermostat temperature modulator. With the engine idling on even a mild day, the temperature was observed to hit 114+C. Strange, the aux-fan did not activate. (answer, soon).

    ETV snoops raw sensor data into a high impedance input. 114C, while the thermostat is unpowered, produces 0.50volts on the CLT sensor. The same info should be available across the D-bus if I wished to query.


    When the thermostat receives maximum substained control power, the radiator loop opens continuously. With the engine again idling on a mild day and at a touch of a button (CLT MIN), the temperature falls dramatically from 114C down to 82C.


    In between these special cases, normal operation consists of a closed-loop control mode whereby a PID modulates thermostat power to chase a temperature that is mapped into load & rpm. Out on the road on a 32C day, the controller easily brackets the engine temp around 95C using about 25% thermostat power.
    At idle I let the temperature drift up to 104C, perfect for when you're waiting to have your car smog checked. (Target shown. but out of reach on this moderate 32C day). Off idle and on load, the engine may immediately dip into the radiator coolant, kept cool because you were recirculating in the inner loop. In a matter of several seconds, the CLT is reading 94C. Thermal energy management has been one of the big successes of the project.


    If you don't have a fancy ETV box, there are two other alternatives. One is to hard wire (or toggle switch) the thermostat modulator to be always-on, capping the coolant temp at a minimum. A second option is to replace the variable temperature thermostat with a standard fixed temperature unit (rated 95C on the outbound M62). Regretfully, I have not investigated if the earlier thermo fits the later housing, but I would wager.

    The Aux-Fan side show
    Quick on the heels of the engine swap the MID-OBC was screeming about the engine overheating. This heightened by scrutiny of the aux-fan operations and NEVER in all the time of CLT sensor plotting, did I ever see the fan turn on. This eventually had me replacing the temperature switch and, when that produced the same result, then boiling the switch alive until it confessed to my thermocouple and DVM that, yes, it does turn on at the correct temperature of 91C. Note: hysterisis has it turning off at 83C.


    That left only a Sherlock conclusion*, that even as the engine was screeming 'overheat', the aux-fan switch was well below threshold, even cool to the touch. Lesson: the reported engine coolant temp is not the same as radiator coolant temp. The sensors are on different coolant loops that could differ by over 50C especially when using a variable thermostat. The switch acts as radiator heat management, including the sandwich of A/C, tranny and hydraulic, and not engine heat management. Second corollary, don't expect an enthusiastic aux-fan switch to save you from a lazy or dead thermostat.

    * Sherlock: "What ever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

    Hydraulics
    Sensors are still around and the pump senosr got upsized to 2K psi.
    ETV page needs some attention.


    The bus station
    During a particularly low point in my life, always getting on another bus, I could visually read the waveform on the oscilloscope and pick off the start-stop-parity bits, then tell you which I-bus source was talking to which destination. Then I got ETV to decode it for me. You may expect a "hacking the e31 I-bus", someday.


    -- More --

    - - - Updated - - -

    The M60/62 beyond 4.4 liters
    Alpina was the first to go there.



    For the 01-03 model year, BMW adopted the Alpina 4.6L specification for use in the X5 to defend against the Mercedes ML until the N62B48 was available.

    Alpina V8 comparo


    * Compared to the Alpina tune, the bmw B46 trades hp for torque.
    Additional hp could be traded away for still more torque by retrofitting the TUB intake manifold.
    ** Some ppl say the 4.8 liter B10V8S got the N62, but Alpinaphiles doubt it, saying MY is off.

    BMW V8 engine comparo
    Mid 90's to mid 00's. Yellow/green = my swap.
    Just sayin: B46 bore + S62 crank & rods = B48.


    E31 engine survey


    - 0-60: Automotive-catalog.com, except my 3.15lsd data.
    - Colored lines: The dyno power/torque numbers that delivered the 0-60 number.
    - 850's are 100-150lbs heavier than 840's, worth about 0.2 secs or so.
    - Before you nitpick the data, check your units, bhp or ps, and 0-60mph or 0-100kph, gearing, etc.

    Dyno session #1: Before swap


    This e31 was measured on a Dynojet by an independent speed shop. For dyno translations, a driveline loss factory was set at 17%, typical for an automatic transmission but also convenient in that it mathematically predicts the stock factory specification. Also convenient, this conversion factor shows that the stock e31 w/B44 meets factory spec and establishes the baseline for before-after track tests. Regretfully I do not the baseline of a stock e31/840, this particular e31 drivetrain having been retrofitted with the 3.15 LSD.

    Dyno session #2: After swap


    A year later I returned to the very same Dynojet, now installed below grade, and the same indy owner/operator with 15 years experience. The very first dyno run with the B46 was a disappointment. In fact, after seeing the curve, I cancelled out of road work until I can flesh out the bottom end of the torque curve. Related, I need to build out my tuner tools so that I can make my dyno sessions more interactive.

    Both before and after, the dyno operator was not happy that the stock DME5.2 was running such a lean mix and, related, he reported detonation as he rolled in on the first run. "Hey! Did you know your windows roll up at 100mph?". I'll may be able to provide relief by lowering the coolant temperature but can do nothing about AFR until ETV gets expanded into a full DME. On the other hand, I did enjoy 26 mpg to and from the dyno shop.

    We did three runs using pre-configured vanos maps that could be punched up via the ETV control panel. In other words, this was not a tuning session, but more of a baseline look-see. You've already seen the vanos-off result and the other two maps didn't get anymore impressive. Comparing curves and specs agains the B44, I will hazard a guess that the B46 is putting out a mere 315 hp and 310 ft-lbs compared to 340/350 promised in the X5. The good news is that there is lots of potential and I have a plan.

    I'll be Bach, without piano.

    Dyno session #3: New cam map
    The curious case of the missing bottom end was solved. The CAS signals from the B44 versus B46 had me assuming that the full retard position of the vanos cam was the same as the fixed position of the non-vanos cam. Even a brief study of the diagram presented in the theory section above, along with some published data (below) for several of the cams in question, quickly points out that the vanos cam starts out with a deficit of perhaps (484 - 472 =) 12 degrees.



    The B46 cam spec is unknown to me although it is said to be bigger than the TUB44. Until the B46 cam design is captured, we are using the TUB44 spec as a proxy, here and in the ETV map.

    In dyno session #2, even my Vanos-Lite mapping was barely making up the deficit and that happened only way up the curve. In session #3, we build the bias into the map so that we start advancing from the deficit position as low as 1200 rpm. By 1700 rpm we are supposedly even with the B44 cam and from there up we go positive with respect to this reference.

    With this new wisdom, I brought three maps to session #3. Cam-Lite and Cam-Max now do what I said I was targeting in session 2.
    The third map is called Cam-Zero, and is a shot at getting the vanos engine to emulate the fixed cam of the non-vanos engine.
    So it immediately erases the 12 degree deficit as we come off idle and never changes that all the way to redline.

    The engine is now at 327bhp and 335ft-lbs, roughly equivalent to what you get from an N54B30 twin-turbo as found in the E90 335i.
    Getting to 340/350 and beyond requires gaining control of fueling and spark. There is a plan.
    The low end below 2500rpm is still weaker than the B44 and the top of the curve is a bit ragged.

    On the previous day out on the road I had been blindly using the Cam-Max map to rack up a bunch of 6.0x second runs, and that was pretty annoying.
    Since Dyno #3 now revealed that Cam-Lite was actually the best map, I returned to the road, punched up Cam-Lite and clocked...



    Dyno Session Comparo



    Road and Track
    The e31 was road tested using a museum quality G-Tech brand GPS accelerometer which appears hard wired for 0-60 and 1/4mile.
    Can't say if it does 0-100kph. This base model lacks a data link so we get by with 'pics-or-lies' screen shots.




    - Acceleration runs are at about 500ft elevation, 26 degrees C (+/-), and the barometer indicates no tropical depression or even a bad mood.
    - Cam-Ret. Vanos actuation off, cams in full retard always/everywhere, about 12 degrees late with respect to B44 cam.
    - Cam-zero attempts to replicate the B44 fixed cam reference (aka Zero adv/ret).
    - Vanos-Lite is a mapping whereby cam advance was limited to about one-half of range beyond B44 reference.
    - ND= No Data collected, possibly never will be.
    - TBD. To Be Determined. Needs additional dyno work
    - Fuel consumption @ steady 65mph, top gear, no a/c, pods down. At this rpm the Lite map asks about 8 crank degrees advance over B44, while the Max map demands about 12 degrees.
    - For reference, the X5-4.6iS weighs an additional 1000 lbs, has a 3.91 diff and clocks 0-60 in 6.5seconds according to C&D.
    - For reference, the e39M5 w/S62 weighs about 100 lbs less, has a 3.91 diff, 6 speeds, and clocks 0-60 in the low fives.

    Futures
    We will do the entire e52 Alpina drivetrain, e-throttle, obd2 DME, 7K redline.

    About the author
    Last edited by Hyper; 07-12-2017 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Pic link repair, re PB affair

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Commiefornia
    Posts
    544
    My Cars
    1996 850
    Where do you weld on the other 4 cylinders?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    13,361
    My Cars
    E31 & E89
    Quote Originally Posted by Braveheart61 View Post
    Where do you weld on the other 4 cylinders?
    Go to hell!

    This is amazing!!!
    Last edited by olinjohnston; 05-15-2014 at 05:01 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Iceland
    Posts
    4,480
    My Cars
    BMW 850
    In the future you say E-throttle.
    Why would you want that? Isn by cable better?
    I would want a direct throttle in mine that would work with the Cruise Controle

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Commiefornia
    Posts
    544
    My Cars
    1996 850
    image.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by olinjohnston View Post
    Go to hell!

    This is amazing!!!
    I am parking right next to you with my Ghetto wheels, polished bright

    Wheels are Olin approved, battery's sold separately

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Uk
    Posts
    1,293
    My Cars
    1994 850csi rhd
    Man that's is a serious amount of work. This is has to be far the most technically adventurous project I've seen. Congratulations !!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Reykjavik Iceland
    Posts
    1,614
    My Cars
    ALPINA B10 BITURBO
    What an epic write up thread

    simply STUNNING work
    Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson

    E30 CABRIO V12 M70B50 ///
    ALPINA B10 BITURBO 346 @ 507
    E34 550 V12 JML
    Contacts
    http://alpina.123.is/pictures/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Hampshire UK
    Posts
    7,100
    My Cars
    99 840ci Sport Indv
    That's great work!

    The aux fan is controlled by the outlet temperature of the radiator - IIRC 99C is full-speed, however the panic temperatures are measured at the thermostat housing.

    Drop the temperature-mapped thermostat, the standard 840ci 4.4 passes emissions without it - but lots of M62TUB44's die because of problems with it. The standard 85C/95C thermostat does not fit without the housing being machined - discussed on the E38/E39 Forums

    http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e31/BMW_M62...e_Problems.htm

    The M62TUB44 has a lot more grunt than the M62B44, I have had an 840ci with the M62B44 and an E38 with the M62TUB44 at the same time, the 740i is a lot faster in the mid-range.

    You can get the 840ci down to 5.9 seconds with the M62B44, 3.15 diff and 200 cell cats:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH8U6KLp1Yg

    The M62TUB46 should do a LOT better!

    One of the great advances with the M62TUB44 was the electronic throttle control - as it was adaptive, it could make the car feel half the weight with the variable mapping of the throttle control - getting that right would make the engine response so much better than the cable-driven M62B44. I would guess, if you were going that far, you might as well use DME 7.2, it would make a lot more sense as you could integrate the cruise control at the same time.
    Last edited by Timm; 05-15-2014 at 06:46 PM.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


    My Current 840ci Sport Individual
    My Current 650ci Sport Individual
    My E31 Repair and Information Website
    My E38 Repair and Information Website
    My E63/E64 Repair and Information Website

    Chase - Heroes to a generation

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    194
    My Cars
    e34 540 e30 335
    I have one of those engines (2003, 40k miles from a smashed X5) sitting in a corner of the garage and wanted to drop it into my E34 540 but the lack of vanos control stopped me. I've since put a Rotrex supercharger into the E34 and was wondering what I was going to do with the 4.6. I have done the oil pump and sump conversion and may now sell the engine (Or buy another old BMW to drop it into...)
    E30 1992 335 Cabriolet - Transplant nearly finished
    E31 1992 850ci - Hartge H8 6.0 conversion
    E34 1995 540A - Stock, low mileage, hi spec and soon to FI'd
    E36 1994 M3 - GM LS3 Transplant
    E38 2001 735 - Daily driver
    E46 2002 330 Cab - Stock
    M62B46 with TTV flywheel, dual plate clutch and 6 speed box sitting in a corner waiting for me to decide where to put it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Liberal Loontown, CA
    Posts
    2,651
    My Cars
    Cool Volvo, Ugly BMW
    Blinded me with science!
    What "thumbs up" really means




  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,837
    My Cars
    91-Dinan 850TT,3-530xiT'
    Wow! Good stuff.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    833
    My Cars
    1997 840Ci
    I want one. Very interesting read. Heavy on Tech info & lightened with some humour. Thanks for sharing.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Delafield, WI
    Posts
    60
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 840Ci,Cayman S
    Wow! I'm too intimidated to post anything any more.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Laurel, MD
    Posts
    4,759
    My Cars
    I miss my E31!!!!!!!!!!
    Super cool!!! If there was a way to make the 840 (or 846) an AWD, that will be super cool. Will definitely cut doing the 0-60 time.
    Last edited by Ahmed303; 05-20-2014 at 10:36 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SJ, CA
    Posts
    2,347
    My Cars
    '00 Z3C, '70 XJ6
    This is the best post I've seen in a very long time, well done!

    I have just one question, why no s62?
    2.8 Z3 coupe + 6 speed || 200kW electric 1970 Jaguar XJ6

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hyperworld
    Posts
    585
    My Cars
    '97 840CI
    Thanks all, especially those three who got a sneek preview and were able keep quiet.
    Dyno session #3 has just now been added to the original post. The remainder is unchanged.

    Last edited by Hyper; 07-12-2017 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Pic link repair, re PB affair

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Christchurch,New Zealand
    Posts
    391
    My Cars
    93 fjord grey 850csi
    Fantastic work have you ever considered running a car pc instead of the mid and radio with a 7" touchscreen it would be rather cool and looks professional as well

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mississauga, ON, Canada
    Posts
    1,219
    My Cars
    97 840Ci Individual
    hey if you ever want my engine bay to hold on to another one of those x5 engines for you, just let me know

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hyperworld
    Posts
    585
    My Cars
    '97 840CI
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
    ... There is a plan...
    There always is. Time, well that's another topic.

    These two circuit boards have been sitting in front of my qwerty for about six months now.
    The one on the left, I knew about. It's basically the next revision of the B46 cam computer current running under the hood.
    Cleans things up, moves the design towards production.


    The board on the right was a bit of a mystery.
    Now, mysteries are not unusual on my work table for the reason that I often get interrupted for long stretches, instead told to report to some distant cafe. "Distant" can include the other side of the planet.

    After studying the board, then looking around in computer files, I have concluded that in the May '14 timeframe, I designed and fabricated a multi-channel broad-band O2 controller.
    Just never loaded it with components and software.
    It's mission was to close the 20 HP gap between the B46 in the X5 and the same engine installed in the 840.
    On the dyno we left off at roughly 327bhp but would prefer to see say 347, with the low end fleshed out.
    Please recall that the dyno also revealed the stock ecu is stuck on an "economy" AFR.

    The entire purpose of Hyperdrive-E31O2 is to wrap the stock ecu in a virtual reality shell.
    Depending on where we are on the engine rpm-load map, it feeds the ecu some very precise lies.
    Like the AFR is too lean during WOT, therefore causing it to lean rich, therefore developing more safe power.
    E31O2 piggy-backs onto ETV and both fit in the same box as before.
    Sorry, the thingy in the pic's background has priority.
    Last edited by Hyper; 07-12-2017 at 04:50 PM. Reason: Pic link repair, re PB affair

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,816
    My Cars
    E31 E38 E65
    my brain hurts
    *~*Yamaguchi-gumi Syndicate Member #59,005 *~*
    [ Bippu Couture ] ( D_G ) [ FALKEN Tires]

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Whitney, TX
    Posts
    1,182
    My Cars
    97 850CI
    That makes perfect sense. Not to me of course, but to someone.
    Desecrator of all things Sacred

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Ramon, CA
    Posts
    873
    My Cars
    850Ci, M5, Model-S P85D
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
    This is the best post I've seen in a very long time, well done!

    I have just one question, why no s62?
    I'm with you Bryson, Hyper is slacking!!

    Why not a N74B60? that's 6 liters, 12 cylinders and 4 cams...ZF8HP trans just to pep things up a little.

    Amazing work...obviously too much time on your hands
    Last edited by m6bigdog; 11-03-2014 at 03:51 PM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hyperworld
    Posts
    585
    My Cars
    '97 840CI
    Dallying in foreign cafes is not my only sin.
    Over the past 3 months my W201 cozzy has been restored out of a 16 year mothball...


    ...to serve as an additional platform for some of these boxes.


    In the mid-ground is the mbz fueling computer, but it also contains the same multi-channel wide-band O2 block targeted for the B46 box.
    After development of the software library on the W201, it then ports over to the e31.

    In the foreground, and just in from fabrication about 4 hours ago, is the mbz spark computer. One noteworthy feature is that it snoops the ABS inorder to add in traction control via ignition retard. But now having knowledge of both engine rpm-load and vehicle speed, it can also call the shots with regard to transmission gear selection. Therefore I've given the green light to replacing the 4-spd governed tranny with a 722.6xx electronic 5-spd tranny which would be the counterpart to the 5HP24, something that really needs to get sorted someday. Not shown (still in CAD), a TCM to take commands over CAN and operate the tranny solenoids.
    Last edited by Hyper; 07-12-2017 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Pic link repair, re PB affair

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    886
    My Cars
    1995 BMW 840CI
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
    This is the best post I've seen in a very long time, well done!

    I have just one question, why no s62?
    He mentioned it, but thats a whole other set of cams, and then those have to be coordinated with the other set of cams, from what i've heard the enigma of the S62 control eludes but he may be shedding light on it
    While you're down there ...

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hyperworld
    Posts
    585
    My Cars
    '97 840CI
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
    This is the best post I've seen in a very long time, well done!
    I have just one question, why no s62?
    Thanks.
    The point of this project was not to make my car fast or fancy. I really don't care about that since I don't drive much.
    Instead, this project demonstrates how a M62TUB44 is an easy diy swap into the 840, and I would expect this could become popular as these cars get still older.

    The choice of M62B46 for the demo was merely a bit of showmanship to get ppl's attention while staying relevant to the typical 840 owner. Unfortunately the B46 is not sold on street corners like the TUB44.

    By contrast the typical S62 is both beat up and over priced in addition to requiring more effort to adapt. Few owners would ever seriously consider this and therefore few control boxes would ever be built.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •