Ireland Engineering Alpina Bar

[dlguadiz]

Thanks Randy. I really appreciate it. Sorry if I kept calling you Aman... just realized you sign your name after the posts...

[320iAman]

Thanks Randy. I really appreciate it. Sorry if I kept calling you Aman... just realized you sign your name after the posts...

lol,its no biggee

Randy

[osburn383]

It fits in between the left and right brackets that hold the rubber bushings that the front sway bar pivots thru ~26 1/2 " in length end to end,,the steel tubes with holes in them that secures it to the left and right brackets are 1 3/8" vertical height and 1 " across--measuring on the car. The alpina bar fits in between the brackets so measure this and leave a little off and measure the front bolt holes center to center of the brackets-this is where the bolt goes thru-the steel tubes to secure the alpina bar on the left and right brackets.

So, steel bar--tubular--hole thruout - 24 1/2 length , 1" outside diameter,,the vertical tubes( or drilled out bar) are 1 3/8 in height and 1 inch across and are welded to the steel bar 24 1/2 " ends flush at the top of both and must be flat so it fits the brackets flat.

The 24 1/2 in tublar steel bar is cut or grinded at the top and bottom end inset a little so that the vertical tubes for which the bolts go thru fit snug all around the tubular bar,flush at the top,perfectly vertical welded on end tubes that the bolts go thru and thru front holes of the brackets , ect.

Measure your brackets distances, front holes center to center and so forth, make sure everything is square or you'll have to offset the vertical holes to get square or use a smaller bolt with more leeway.

Enjoy, Someone here may have the design specs for this and tightened this up.

Randy

I had tried to install my alpina bar i got from Ireland engineering the other day and it seems like it at least 1" to short.
I measured the bar end to end at 25", center to center at 23.75"

Can anyone else confirm this or take a center to center measurement of their sway bar bolts.
I measured center to center on the bolts at 25.5"

[dumbclub]

The bar that Jesse at http://eurometric.com made for me years ago measures 25.68" center-to-center (26.5" end-to-end) and fits my '83 perfectly. By the way, I don't think he's still making them.

NOTE: I just updated my earlier post (#25) with new photos because Photobucket's new asshole policy made the original post useless with no images.

I hope that will help everyone see how the Alpina bar mounts.

[osburn383]

The bar that Jesse at http://eurometric.com made for me years ago measures 25.68" center-to-center (26.5" end-to-end) and fits my '83 perfectly. By the way, I don't think he's still making them.

NOTE: I just updated my earlier post (#25) with new photos because Photobucket's new asshole policy made the original post useless with no images.

I hope that will help everyone see how the Alpina bar mounts.

Thanks for that.
Yeah that sound like the version you have would fit my car.

I called Ireland Engineering and they said the one they make is 23.75" center to center.
Did BMW change anything about the sway bar mount hole locations from early to late model e21?

[dumbclub]

Maybe someone with an early car can check the distance. That's a lot different from what fits my late model.

I'm going to stray off topic here because this illustrates my concern about Ireland Engineering's thoroughness on their parts for the e21. Your experience with the obviously wrong Alpina bar mirrors my problem last week with Ireland's fixed camber plates: there's no way they can be made to work without either grinding and elongating the strut tower opening or grinding away a similar amount of the upper strut bearing. Neither of those solutions are acceptable.

I spoke to Jeff Ireland about it and his best explanation was, "We've been making those since the nineties and never had a problem, but we don't sell many of them to e21 guys".

Maybe they fit fine on 2002s, but not e21s. However, they promote them as a performance upgrade for the e21:http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/item/02fcp.html
To install them, you knock out the three studs on top of the strut assembly, bolt the Ireland plates through those newly created holes on the strut bearing, and use the three studs on the fixed camber plate to connect it through the strut tower. The Ireland plates simply shift the top of the strut inward by about 5/8". A very simple way to gain a set amount of negative camber. Too bad they don't fit our cars.

IMG_0158.jpg


Here's the top of the strut assembly trying to be pulled into place, but the inside edge of the strut tower opening is jammed up tight to the inside edge of the rubber strut bearing with the Ireland fixed camber plate in place, bolted to the bearing. I stopped trying to tighten the bolts before they broke and it was still 3/4" shy of allowing the strut assembly to seat tightly against the underside of the strut tower opening. They just don't work on an e21.
plate-2.jpg

[amarino]

I installed the IE Alpina lower front strut bar back in 2012 and it fit fine. 06/1981 build month according to RealOEM. Unfortunately I'm ~400 miles away from the car so I can't measure it for you.

IMG_20120725_140454.jpg

[320iAman]

Okay I just measured a couple of ways- bolt center to bolt center ,its really close to 25.5 " I'm measuring by myself-- ,,end to end is 26.5 " bolt center to end of bar 1/2 inch so 26.5 - (2 x.5)=25.5 bolt center to bolt center.

If your coming up short they sent you the wrong bar,,you need 25.5 " or so, as far as I know this is good for 80-83. Bruce rip made mine and went there to IE about e21 goodies he made.

Mine was made 1/80 according to the door sticker, vin number there as well. 1st smart car edition with transistors and so forth and yes it came with fyi 1979 FI Head, original, the 79 in a circle stamped on the intake side, running a 81 or 82 stamp now,,I'd have to look.


Randy

[WantingAfunE21]

I had tried to install my alpina bar i got from Ireland engineering the other day and it seems like it at least 1" to short.
I measured the bar end to end at 25", center to center at 23.75"

Can anyone else confirm this or take a center to center measurement of their sway bar bolts.
I measured center to center on the bolts at 25.5"

Just went and checked on the 77, a hair over 25.5.

[osburn383]

Thanks for the info guys.
At least i feel like I'm not crazy and you all are getting the same rough measurements i am.

Yeah its odd that the guy from Ireland Engineering is telling me his jig is set to make them at 23.75" center to center.

He said i could return it and he would make one to my measurements. Just a little aggravation.

Mine is 1981 i will have to check the month it was made.

[320iAman]

25.5" ~ is it for all models newer and older it seems.

Randy

[mxl556]

My understanding that the Ireland camber plates that are sold for the e21 are in fact 2002 parts, just like Kmac plates. Although 2002 parts fit, the e21 has a different strut tower opening so unless you cut out the metal, plates won't work/adjust.

I can measure the distance between the sway bar mount bolts tomorrow. I have the brace Bruce made and it fits perfectly.

Max

[320iAman]

What osburn needs is a center to center hole measure, so that IE can make the correct one, he got a short one and IE asked him for the measurements to remake the one that fits his e21, 320i 1981.

Whether its 25.4, 25.5, or 25.6 in is not as significant as one would think,,the hole is not threaded, plus the bolt going thru is no way close enough to the inner wall to make a difference,,like the meter piston moving in meter sleeve in the fuel distributor, here the difference could be one thousandth, 10 thousandth or more like in the 100s thousandths of in diameter difference except in mm, to get the proper fit, so when its torqued in and holding it will be perceived flat as the bolt can move a little, be it a shade over 25.5 in or a shade under 25.5 in.

So more info the better,, right now a shade .18 in over 25.5 in center to center,,and 26 1/2 overall length, Measure yours Max and more info is available. My measurements was with a tape measure, not a string or marked line method or scribe with exact center measured.

I just measured the vertical tube the bolt goes thru with digital caliper and its 1.016 in and 1.019 in left and right side with paint so .508 and .5095 , so 26 .5 - (.508 + .5095)= 25.48 in center to center so I'm more in line with 25.5 in center to center to center now. Like I said plus or minus a shade will make no difference in this. Mine was made by Bruce as well rip.

Forgot to mention my alpina bar fits perfectly as well.



The left toe eye is back in by stick welding, older picture.

Randy

[dlguadiz]

Mine is more or less 25.6" center-bolt to center-bolt. Manufactured May 1981.

[dumbclub]

My understanding that the Ireland camber plates that are sold for the e21 are in fact 2002 parts, just like Kmac plates. Although 2002 parts fit, the e21 has a different strut tower opening so unless you cut out the metal, plates won't work/adjust.

Max,
That's exactly what Jeff Ireland told me when I called in looking for a solution to them not fitting my car. I guess they just assumed they would also fit the e21.

They were very good about letting me return the camber plates and I hope they will adjust the description in their online catalog. It should say an e21 can be altered with significant cutting/grinding to allow these 2002 plates to fit.

-John

[dlguadiz]

I bought it from Jesse Nemec (eurometric.com) about 5 years ago and I don't know if he's still making them, but he did a very clean and accurate reproduction of the original Alpina

Attachment 612370

I dont know, but I like this configuration better than Ireland Engineering's -- looks stronger. With Ireland's, the weld will be taking the brunt of the forces whereas with this configuration, the weld is tasked with just keeping the smaller end tubes in place. The longer, bigger-diameter tube takes the brunt. Am I making sense?

[320iAman]

thats different than Bruces rip as i explained. Looks like this 1st picture. Bmac chatted with Jeff on making and selling his wares thru IEM. See the difference. Bar (drilled) end v tubing end or tube in tube or tube in bar.

E21alpnabar.jpg Jesters Alpina-bar-1.jpg

This is better than radio car talk..

Randy

[dlguadiz]

Inspired by the tube in tube design, I thought I would take this to the next level... I chanced upon these sign knobs (???) -- the one they use to prop up company logos and signs at reception areas -- its made of solid stainless steel with grooves that would take in M10 bolts (see foreground).
20171104_094144.jpg

Just remove one end, place two of these on an m10 x 50mm bolt side by side and tig weld them (see background). Now all I need is a 1" OD stainless steel tube with around 27" length, drill a hole on both ends, insert and tig weld them in place. You'll have an Alpina bar with m10 grooves for a snug fit.

[osburn383]

To put a close on this issue.
They sent me a corrected length version and got it bolted on without any trouble.

[jaredmac11]

To put a close on this issue.
They sent me a corrected length version and got it bolted on without any trouble.

Did they ship the wrong part accidentally or would we need to specify the correct part prior to making an order?

[osburn383]

They never gave me clear answer on if it was their mistake or what.
They just responded with that's how we have been making it for x amount of years.
But they where quick on the turn around once i it sent it back.
From the various measurements from this thread i would lean to more it was a error in manufacturing.

[pofo]

Wish I saw this thread couple days ago. I just order some parts from them and the brace was on my order. I hope I dont have any issues with mounting it as I have an 83'.

[Bonsaibacker]

Pofo- Am interested in ordering one as well- please advise once you receive to confirm the correct fit.
Thanks!

[Thecatmilton]

Wish I saw this thread couple days ago. I just order some parts from them and the brace was on my order. I hope I don't have any issues with mounting it as I have an 83'.

If it fits, you won't regret it. I got my alpina bar used. It really tightens the car up the the point where I noticed its effect when I closed my door after installing it. It seems to reduce a lot of flex when steering too.

[E21M10]

Hallo, the answer is simple: Ireland weld it wrong! I bought mine by their Europe Dealer Hardemann and it was to short. After a call Ireland told me that brace must fit. It is in their programm for years and they told that they will do a custom version for me because the delivered one doesn´t fit and my car must be something special. After many mails and and sending them BMW Original Body repair sheet copy the new one I got fits perfect. There is only one lengt for all modells with all engines. If the delivered brace doesnt fit its simply wrong done!!