Ireland Engineering Alpina Bar

[1977320is]

Wow -- that looks great!

Is stabilizer oversized, or does paint just make it look that way.

Guess I should redo with new hardware (still can't believe Ireland Engineering doesn't supply the right stuff)

Don't think I want to go that much over with the bolts though: already discovered that it's low enough w just the nuts to hit on parking curbs.

Makes me think twice about installing Alpina front spoiler I picked up on local CL

[SkiFree]

It sounds like dumbclub's didn't even come with with hardware.

What I find impressive is that through all this it doesn't sound like you called ie once. That's the kind of error that is easily fixed if just given the opportunity.

[Op320i]

looks like I need to add this to my wishlist

[1977320is]

"What I find impressive is that through all this it doesn't sound like you called ie once. That's the kind of error that is easily fixed if just given the opportunity."

Don't imagine they were open on the weekend.

Was planning on giving them a call today to find out if they sent the wrong hardware packet or think what they sent should suffice.

[bmac320i]

I have refined from posting on this thread for a few reasons. 1 I use to make this bar for IE (the pic the op showed in the 1st post is mine) But for reasons that will stay between Jeff and I, He has someone else make them. And they know the right hardware to send with them. All you had to do is make a call and they would have made it right. No one 100% all the time.
2 This one relay pisst me off. 3 pieces of tubing welded together. You have no idea. If you can do better THEN DO IT!

[Tom D]

Its mostly because it's 3 pieces of tubing welded together.

reposting because its not often we get to see bmac "really pissed off."

[bmac320i]

I was so pissed off I couldn't spell right. LOL

[1977320is]

Sorry to get your knickers in a twist, but if you'll notice, the critical part of my question came during the weekend and after other posters noted that they'd received bolts that were too short and/or suggested that it was unsafe to re-use old nylocks, esp with too-short bolts

My initial intention was to ascertain whether what I was doing was right, if the supplied parts were really incorrect and/or unsafe, and what workarounds might exist. Working on the street w/o a garage or driveway, I didn't have the luxury of waiting around until Monday. A lot of good advice was provided.

I did express my displeasure, in fairly mild terms, but when you don't have experience with a company and they A) don't return your call on earlier question, B) take a long time to fill your order (I was warned it would take a while, but took longer than projected), C) provide wrong and/or inadequate parts, D) learn that others received too-short bolts, as well, it doesn't create a good impression, but that was certainly not the main thrust of my posts. I pointedly praised the resulting performance improvement.

I called them pretty much as soon as they opened yesterday to try to sort things out. After a pleasant discussion they acknowledged that they'd probably sent the wrong hardware and the correct set up is already in the mail.

Once they arrived -- and proved correct -- I would certainly have provided a follow-up post attesting to Ireland Engineering's excellent customer service, even without the virtual spanking.

[bmac320i]

I'm going to have to say Sorry for my ignorant asshole post last night. After a bad day and to much to drink, I took it out on the wrong people. What I should have said is this.

If you had bought it from macfarlandperformance.com it would have had the right hardware. I know my price is higher, but I'm going to change that. And I have a facebook page too.
Bruce

[tlapham]

I made my own 3 years ago out of solid round stock and 2 chrome bushings. total including hardware ran about $40. obviously you need a welder. great improvement.

[1977320is]

Bruce,

Thanks for your reply.

Just FYI: I didn't even get to comparison-shopping point -- Ireland Engineering and some UK or Australian site come up when you google "E21 Alpina Bar" but your doesn't, at least in the first page or two. Not sure what you do to generate more hits/prominence (esp since google works on "the rich get richer" principle)

Do you have any plans to start making front bumper adjusters again?

TD

[1977320is]

Follow up:

Finally had a chance to change in the new bolts - - along w nifty Ireland Engineering badge they included for my troubles

Posting a pic that shows final results along with wrong bolt flanked by correct ones and originals (w plates swapped to new bolts: realized I had them upside down before I installed them).

[gsumzzz]

Nice. This bar does make a noticeable difference as well. Good show.

[John Adkins]

Thanks for posting the above pics. My bar from Germanmotorsports just arrived today. Cheers, John

[dlguadiz]

This is a very old thread, but bumping it because I am thinking of fabricating an Alpina Bar.

After following you guys on other threads about front strut braces, I decided to order one and I really noticed a difference in how my e21 handles... very happy indeed. Now since I found this thread and the Alpina Bar seems to improve it some more, I plan on installing one.

Problem is I am cash-strapped (not mainland US, so delivery charges and taxes would kill me) and may opt to fabricate one instead (manual labor here is cheap)... does anyone here want to share with me the proper dimensions of this bar?

Thanks!

[320iAman]

It fits in between the left and right brackets that hold the rubber bushings that the front sway bar pivots thru ~26 1/2 " in length end to end,,the steel tubes with holes in them that secures it to the left and right brackets are 1 3/8" vertical height and 1 " across--measuring on the car. The alpina bar fits in between the brackets so measure this and leave a little off and measure the front bolt holes center to center of the brackets-this is where the bolt goes thru-the steel tubes to secure the alpina bar on the left and right brackets.

So, steel bar--tubular--hole thruout - 24 1/2 length , 1" outside diameter,,the vertical tubes( or drilled out bar) are 1 3/8 in height and 1 inch across and are welded to the steel bar 24 1/2 " ends flush at the top of both and must be flat so it fits the brackets flat.

The 24 1/2 in tublar steel bar is cut or grinded at the top and bottom end inset a little so that the vertical tubes for which the bolts go thru fit snug all around the tubular bar,flush at the top,perfectly vertical welded on end tubes that the bolts go thru and thru front holes of the brackets , ect.

Measure your brackets distances, front holes center to center and so forth, make sure everything is square or you'll have to offset the vertical holes to get square or use a smaller bolt with more leeway.

Enjoy, Someone here may have the design specs for this and tightened this up.


Randy

[bassboy3313]

Basically just make the end pieces and bolt them in where the inner sway bar bushing mounts are. Then measure between the two end pieces for the cross bar, cut to length with notched ends and weld together. Pretty simple to make.

[dlguadiz]

Thank you, Aman. I really appreciate the help.

The reason why I did not just measure the distance in between the sway bar brackets and used that as basis for the Alpina Bar is that I am not too sure whether my car's geometry is correct or not -- I mean when I installed the front strut braces, I had to jack up the car and pushed and pull the wheels in place for the brace to fall into place -- which meant that there may have been some prior flexing. A 'correctly' made brace and bar should not just minimize chassis flex and improve handling, it should also help and reinforce a 'correct posture' for the car. Hence, me asking the proper measurements for the bar.

Thank you all for your help!

[320iAman]

It does improve handling, although front end twist is not really noticeable when not using an Alpina bar when its installed-then you notice a difference-better handing as the front end of the car stays flatter changing lanes going into turns and so forth. I noticed it right off, you'll like it and it looks good too on the front end,,lol. I dont have any tower braces installed,so the improvement was all Alpina Bar--made famous by the Alpina Racing team early on.

These small changes that make small improvements are really the basis of what is Called "Blue Printing" most commonly used in Motors-although extended thruout the car--factory designers blueprint the entire car--yet they do not get the extra that is there except in very expensive cars.. The extra is significant.

One example--- I know a few who do this-- when rebuilding a motor and blueprinting it the pistons come in--in almost all cases new made -forged pistons with all the latest technologies--each piston is precision weighted, then small amounts of material are removed so that there weight is identical to 1/100 or 1/1000 of a gram and so forth--if the weight of one piston is too much to take small amounts of weight off safely from very certain places only--the blue print mechanic sends it back to the maker for a new one that can be fit--of course ovality and so forth are all checked and written down- a picture of the piston with all dimensions and weight is put down on blue print paper and on to the next item-----there is absolutely no such thing as too much detail..

In the end result the entire motor and every part of it has been measured and adjusted to get a close to frictionless motor on the road-( I know Mission Impossible-thats why it gets done)-result HP and Power stepped up and bullet proof to failure ect, this is done to the motor knowing the Air/fuel/spark/cooling/oil/ect constraints or intervals of runabilty and adjustment can be cast into these as well or not- it just depends on how fast you want to go and your budget.

Randy

[Tom D]

....not too sure whether my car's geometry is correct or not -- (a brace) it should also help and reinforce a 'correct posture' for the car.

i doubt you'd find two of these cars with exactly the same dimensions throughout, so as long as you can get the 4 wheel alignment within spec a brace should be to hold the dynamic structure from twisting whether it was sagging or "correct" when static..... just measure what you have and weld a brace to fit.

[OLD MAN]

i doubt you'd find two of these cars with exactly the same dimensions throughout, so as long as you can get the 4 wheel alignment within spec a brace should be to hold the dynamic structure from twisting whether it was sagging or "correct" when static..... just measure what you have and weld a brace to fit.

I did some work to a spare front sub frame I had then got it powder coated. When I went to put in into the RunAbout I had to use a bar clamp to pull the frame rails in together about 1/8" to get the dowels to line up so it would bolt the subframe in the car. Not sure if it was due to collision damage or what?

Any bolt on part is a hit and miss when it come to fit on a chassis.

[dlguadiz]

..... just measure what you have and weld a brace to fit.

So I guess this is also true with the rear strut brace. I remember someone fabricated one here and posted the design. I did a cardboard cutout of it and found that the holes did not align, and did require a bit of a struggle before I was able to put it in place... now, I may just have to just measure the distance, cut out a tube with the end points welded unto the rear strut towers... but then again, I read somewhere that OLD MAN does not think it is really necessary (owing to the fact that the bulkhead provides enough strength)...

[320iAman]

I installed my Alpina Bar right off, no issue on fit at all, longer than original bracket bolts were required and that was it and these were the same length. Go for it.


Randy

[dlguadiz]

Aman, is the diameter of the hole of the tubes at each end a snug fit to the diameter of the bracket bolts? Or is there a little bit of space? My thinking is that there should be a small rubber lining on the inside of the tubes to make it a snug fit.

[320iAman]

Aman, is the diameter of the hole of the tubes at each end a snug fit to the diameter of the bracket bolts? Or is there a little bit of space? My thinking is that there should be a small rubber lining on the inside of the tubes to make it a snug fit.

The holes in the tubes are close fit to stock bolts for the brackets, no lining is necessary, just longer bolts.

Randy