Porsche Calipers / BBK Upgrade on E39 ???

[Stück]

What is the difference between the 17z and 18z?

[stefm5]

also another option is m5e60 brakes. huge and powerful

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What is the difference between the 17z and 18z?

17z uses 330mm rotor and 18z uses 350mm.
i think they have different pistons diameter also, but i'm not sure

[Chigga]

What is the difference between the 17z and 18z?

The radius of the caliper, 17z can be used with up to 355/360mm rotors while 18z can accept up to 400mm, 18z also has ceramic pads readily available if one ever decided to use ceramic rotors.

[Stück]

Hmm.. I actually have a pair of 17z and 18z sitting here at work. I want to check the swept area on the 18z on the 360x30mm E9x M3 rotor. It is a bit lighter in the hand than the x55 AMG caliper, and pad selection definitely looks better & cheaper.

[BimmerBreaker]

Would E63 M6 brakes fit an E39 M5?

They seem f*ing massive, I am not sure they will even clear the stock M5 wheels...

[AK_5eries]

^ I think I've seen them done on an E39, but wasn't able to find them again.

[stefm5]

Would E63 M6 brakes fit an E39 M5?

They seem f*ing massive, I am not sure they will even clear the stock M5 wheels...

they wouldn't fit stock style 65 M5 wheels.
you have to use 19" rims or 18" from e60 m5 or 18'' style 37 m-pars

[BimmerBreaker]

Yeah, way too big for stock M5 wheels...




The rotor is sitting on a couple rags on top of an M-par here (didnt want to scratch it, its not mine... yet)

Massive. What other BMW OEM options are there for BBK's for our cars? E92 M3? 650i? 135i? M performance brakes???

[AquilaBMW]

I am currently exploring options with a member and will likely pull the trigger on the offering. From what I can see, finding parts like Brembo calipers is one thing. Then you have find / make brackets, then you have to find the right rotors and oftentimes - you end up with just the front set up. I like the idea of one stop shopping where you can get a complete kit that is made to high standards. While Brembos tend to dominate the market with the name brand, from what I have seen the are not the world's "best" brakes out there. There are options. Unless you are plunking down a few thousand dollars, the whole BBK thing can just be an aesthetic modification as opposed to a performance upgrade.

This thread is VERY educational ... I am learning a lot about this topic.

[Chigga]

^ I think I've seen them done on an E39, but wasn't able to find them again.

I believe you are talking about this one? you need custom made carriers.

Yeah, way too big for stock M5 wheels...




The rotor is sitting on a couple rags on top of an M-par here (didnt want to scratch it, its not mine... yet)

Massive. What other BMW OEM options are there for BBK's for our cars? E92 M3? 650i? 135i? M performance brakes???

I think Massive Lee's offering is mainly based on Wilwood, but he may have something in the works that utilize OEM components, probably best to email him.

All below are my personal opinions, with stock E39 M5 wheels is going to be a hard fit, the biggest issue is the lack of clearance between spokes and caliper surface, E60 M5 rotor is 374mm which is an oddball size, and its ridiculously heavy, if I recall the weight is almost 28-29lbs, if you are determine to use the E60 M5 rotors, use Brembo 18z calipers from Cayenne/Q7/Touraeg , they have very similar swept area so you should be ok.

Another option is the new F30 335i brakes, the stock size rotors on those are almost identical to E39 M5, the fronts are 4 pistons and rear twin pistons, I know as a fact the rear calipers will actually bolt up to E46 M3 spindle, and since E46 M3 uses same rear rotors as M5 it may also bolt up or will bolt up with little work, downside? hard to find and I don't know pads options for them.

The best? use E9x M3 rotors for the front as Stuck is using in his set up, right offset, plentiful, 360x30mm size which is extremely easy to find multi-pistons calipers that will work, you've got just about everything out there from OE to aftermarket, so you can keep factory calipers for now with some spacers made, and look for a deal for a nice pair of calipers in the mean time, rear, just use E46 M3 ZCP rotors + 996 or Boxster calipers, the rear bias is minimal compare to the fronts.

[BimmerBreaker]

Id like to stick to the stock E39 M5 wheels (or at least always have the option to run those wheels). Also I would like them to fit under M-pars. I would also like to use all BMW parts. Not neccesarily due to fanboyism, but because I have many sources for rebuild kits at hefty discounts and replacement OEM bits for wholesale or less than wholesale pricing. And I part out BMWs regularly so maybe I could keep an eye out for a car that would have some great upgrades for me.

So sounds like the new 335i caliper would slide over the stock M5 rotors? Little things like brackets are not a big deal as I have friends who do custom work and I can get brackets made. Bolt-on would of course be best but thats just wishing I know E92 M3 pads fit the E63 M6, are the calipers the same?

My preferred option would be to find an affordable upgrade brake kit for these cars utilizing existing parts that may need custom brackets made then I can have a run of 10-15 brackets made. I havent started really tearing into this yet, just wanted to see what options are already out there and start getting some ideas so when I am ready to do it I have a good jumping off point.

[axxessdenied]

The 540i I picked up last october came with a BBK on the front already.

[BimmerBreaker]

Thats the M performance brake upgrade. M5board has a detailed write up on it, I forget if its directly plug and play but I know it was very simple. Im wondering if 135i brakes would be an upgrade over stock as well since I imagine those would be cheaper.

Honestly kind of blows my mind someone spent that much money on that brake kit (it aint cheap) but puts those gaudy wheels on the car.

[axxessdenied]

Honestly kind of blows my mind someone spent that much money on that brake kit (it aint cheap) but puts those gaudy wheels on the car.

I know!! LOL! Need to get some new wheels for it. Spent too much money on music gear over the winter hah

[stefm5]

here is a photo with 374x36 rotor on m-pars

http://public.fotki.com/pkortun/our-...grade/071.html

unfortunately m5 e60 rotor is very heavy compared to m5 e39(euro) or m3 e9x rotor.

[Stück]

The best? use E9x M3 rotors for the front as Stuck is using in his set up, right offset, plentiful, 360x30mm size which is extremely easy to find multi-pistons calipers that will work

The offset or hat depth of the rotors is considerably less than stock E39, which has an abnormally deep inset rotor vs the hub. The E9x M3 rotor places the friction surface about an inch off the backing plate. This means you're most likely going to need spacers if you have wheels with any kind of lip, however it also means you're going to have room to build brackets to adapt the caliper of choice to your rotor.

I may take one of the 18z's home this weekend and play with it, it looks to be about 2.5-3lbs lighter fully loaded than the AMG caliper, but of course is 2 pads/6 pistons rather than 4pads/8 pistons so that's understandable.

[stefm5]

The offset or hat depth of the rotors is considerably less than stock E39, which has an abnormally deep inset rotor vs the hub. The E9x M3 rotor places the friction surface about an inch off the backing plate. This means you're most likely going to need spacers if you have wheels with any kind of lip, however it also means you're going to have room to build brackets to adapt the caliper of choice to your rotor.

I may take one of the 18z's home this weekend and play with it, it looks to be about 2.5-3lbs lighter fully loaded than the AMG caliper, but of course is 2 pads/6 pistons rather than 4pads/8 pistons so that's understandable.

you're absolutely right about offset. it is 77mm versus 62.3mm

[Chigga]

The offset or hat depth of the rotors is considerably less than stock E39, which has an abnormally deep inset rotor vs the hub. The E9x M3 rotor places the friction surface about an inch off the backing plate. This means you're most likely going to need spacers if you have wheels with any kind of lip, however it also means you're going to have room to build brackets to adapt the caliper of choice to your rotor.

I may take one of the 18z's home this weekend and play with it, it looks to be about 2.5-3lbs lighter fully loaded than the AMG caliper, but of course is 2 pads/6 pistons rather than 4pads/8 pistons so that's understandable.

You are Jordan right? with the grey E30 on 18" CSL? if not then I'm sorry for the mix ups.

You are probably right on the rotor offset, we have not worked on E9x M3 rotors on E39's so your knowledge is probably better than mine, my reference of good is compare to others, E9x M3 rotor is almost a universal fit rotors for BMW hubs since it's not too deep for 3 series nor it's too shallow for 5 series, we've actually built few brake kit using OE E9x rotors on E60. Original idea was inexpensive upgrade but by the time it was all said and done, you are only $1000 or so away from a full kit with larger rotors to choose from, so we dropped the idea.

Definitely try the 18Z, we've built several ceramic upgrades for factory Cayenne Turbo and the calipers (18z) has withstand everything so far, short of the radial mounts on 997, they are probably the best bang for the buck right now.

Id like to stick to the stock E39 M5 wheels (or at least always have the option to run those wheels). Also I would like them to fit under M-pars. I would also like to use all BMW parts. Not neccesarily due to fanboyism, but because I have many sources for rebuild kits at hefty discounts and replacement OEM bits for wholesale or less than wholesale pricing. And I part out BMWs regularly so maybe I could keep an eye out for a car that would have some great upgrades for me.

So sounds like the new 335i caliper would slide over the stock M5 rotors? Little things like brackets are not a big deal as I have friends who do custom work and I can get brackets made. Bolt-on would of course be best but thats just wishing I know E92 M3 pads fit the E63 M6, are the calipers the same?

My preferred option would be to find an affordable upgrade brake kit for these cars utilizing existing parts that may need custom brackets made then I can have a run of 10-15 brackets made. I havent started really tearing into this yet, just wanted to see what options are already out there and start getting some ideas so when I am ready to do it I have a good jumping off point.

Everyone has their own reason, so yours is perfectly fine and makes lot of sense, E39 M5 wheels are really tricky, it's almost trial and error process, we've learned that their spoke thickness and barrel slope profile actually changes depending on batches, we had an instance where 360mm fit on one car with 15mm spacers, and another won't fit unless its 20mm spacers, both cars have perfect shape wheels, real OE, non replicas, yet the fitments are different, we noticed it on E34 M-systems as well.

Technically speaking, YES, the new 4 pistons should, as 340 vs 345mm has similar profile as 2.5mm is negligible with caliper spacers, I don't know if E9x M3 calipers are the same, but most likely similar outer casting with different pistons to deal with master cylinder volume.

You could use the Brembo Monoblock 6 as it was used on E92 M3 GTS lol, I know AC Schnitzer used same calipers for their kit, at one time they were using that caliper on E60 M5 rotors as a kit, I have seen a couple in person but don't know if they ever offer them in the programs.

[Stück]

You are Jordan right? with the grey E30 on 18" CSL? if not then I'm sorry for the mix ups.

Yes, thats me. Although that E30 was sold back in May of 06.

[M5 Jed]

If your touring is not even pushing over 400hp, BBK is a waste of time and money. Retrofitting some BBK that was meant for another car is even a bigger waste of time and money. If you want better brakes, install the E39 M5 stock brakes, they are completely bolt on to the touring. Absolute no brainer and cheap too! $750 plus shipping for the complete kit. 2 hour install job and you will be wiping the inside of your windshield with your face.

But if you just want to have a BBK for the looks...you gotta pay to play.

[AK_5eries]

^Awesome M5s! Which one is your favorite?

[BimmerBreaker]

Thanks for the help Chigga and Stuck. Looking forward to this being my first major mod on the future Beast

$750 plus shipping for the complete kit.

Thats way too much for an E39 M5 brake kit... I can get E63 M6 kits for $700 to your door and sold E39 M5 brake kits for $400-500 depending on condition

[M5 Jed]

$750 was just a rounded guess on my part, I'm sure it can be sourced cheaper. V10 brakes on the E39??? Really??? You'll kill whatever performance the car barely had to begin with, it's ridiculous heavy! Not to mention the extra parts needed to make it fit. Better off to just buy those eBay bbks.

[M5 Jed]

^Awesome M5s! Which one is your favorite?

They're all special and wonderful and hold their own. To pick which one is better is to try to answer the meaning of life. Prefer to just drive and enjoy them and accept them for what they are. Now if you were to ask the question which one makes you pee in your pants...that would be the E60.

[AquilaBMW]

They're all special and wonderful and hold their own. To pick which one is better is to try to answer the meaning of life. Prefer to just drive and enjoy them and accept them for what they are. Now if you were to ask the question which one makes you pee in your pants...that would be the E60.

I have been fortunate to witness the modifications and the build of the various M5s in this man's life and also lucky to drive most of them. My favorite is still the E60. That might change when I meet the Unicorn though :-)