Window up/down feature from remote key...wasn't this available?

[CaifanSC]

Weather is getting a little nice so I just remembered about this.

I know pretty much on the entire e31 range you can still do the auto window and sunroof up/down by holding the key in the door handle. However, wasn't this also an option by using the key fob buttons for the 94+ cars? I vaguely recall that maybe the US market didn't get that (similar to why we didn't get the IR system on earlier years), but is it just a coding issue? I'd like to be able to put the windows down from the key. I did a few quick searches but didn't really find anything on the forum.

Thanks!

[revtor]

Remote opening of windows and sunroof should work on all E31 with factory remote control (infrared and radio frequency). Remote closing, however, is only available for the infrared remote control systems.

[CaifanSC]

Remote opening of windows and sunroof should work on all E31 with factory remote control (infrared and radio frequency). Remote closing, however, is only available for the infrared remote control systems.

Lightning fast reply! Thanks Revtor....well then, that brings up the question of why this isn't working on my CSi. I tried it yesterday...you just have to hold down the unlock button until the windows drop correct? I'm going to try it with another key and see if that changes anything.

Oh, and fellow member MJR installed the IR components on his car (harness installed from factory) and if I recall correctly...he can lock/unlock, but neither remote closing or opening work. That's what made me think that it maybe a similar coding thing.

[olinjohnston]

Remote opening of windows and sunroof should work on all E31 with factory remote control (infrared and radio frequency).

It should but it doesn't.

I vaguely recall that maybe the US market didn't get that (similar to why we didn't get the IR system on earlier years), but is it just a coding issue?

It was offered very briefly, and then shut down by government BS with a "safety recall." Since the recall removes the hardware that allows it, it cannot be brought back with coding.

Mine had this recall performed unfortunately:


Make: BMW Model: 840CI
Model Year: 1994
Manufacturer: BAYERISCHE MOTOREN WERKE Report Receipt Date: JAN 27, 1994
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 94V017000 NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: VISIBILITY:POWER WINDOW DEVICES AND CONTROLS

Summary:
THE REMOTE ACTIVATION DEVICE CAN CLOSE WINDOWS AND SUNROOF FROM A DISTANCE GREATER THAN THE MAXIMUM (6 METERS) PERMITTED BY FMVSS NO.118, "POWER OPERATED WINDOW SYSTEMS."

Consequence:
CONSEQUENCE OF NON-COMPLIANCE: THIS COULD ALLOW WINDOWS OR SUNROOFS TO BE CLOSED ON AN ARM OR NECK OF AN INDIVIDUAL WHEN THE REMOTE DEVICE OPERATOR IS NOT WITHIN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY.

Remedy:
REPLACE THE INSIDE REAR VIEW MIRROR WHICH HAS THE ACTIVATION RECEIVER WITH ONE WHOSE RECEIVER WILL CONTROL THE DOOR LOCKING AND THEFT ALARM, BUT WILL NOT PERMIT REMOTE OPERATION OF THE WINDOWS AND SUNROOF.

Notes:
SYSTEM: EQUIPMENT; ELECTRIC POWER ACCESSORIES; WINDOWS. VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH REMOTE ACTIVATION DEVICES FOR DOOR LOCKING AND THEFT ALARM ARMING. NOTE: IF YOUR VEHICLE IS PRESENTED TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND THE REMEDY IS NOT PROVIDED WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME AND FREE OF CHARGE OR THE REMEDY DOES NOT CORRECT THE DEFECT OR NONCOMPLIANCE, PLEASE CONTACT BMW SERVICE CENTER AT 1-201-573-2100. ALSO, CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-800-424-9393.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls...intVersion=YES

- - - Updated - - -

On later USA BMWs, they allowed opening but not closing to maintain compliance, but on the E31, they just threw away the feature altogether. Don't bother trying it with the other key, since your 850CSi has a 10/1994 build date, it already has the updated/crippled mirror.

[mjrgroup]

Oh, and fellow member MJR installed the IR components on his car (harness installed from factory) and if I recall correctly...he can lock/unlock, but neither remote closing or opening work. That's what made me think that it maybe a similar coding thing.

Hi CaifanSC, correction I can close all windows and sunroof with the IR keyfob...but I cannot​ open.

[CaifanSC]

It should but it doesn't.



It was offered very briefly, and then shut down by government BS with a "safety recall." Since the recall removes the hardware that allows it, it cannot be brought back with coding.

Mine had this recall performed unfortunately:


Make: BMW Model: 840CI
Model Year: 1994
Manufacturer: BAYERISCHE MOTOREN WERKE Report Receipt Date: JAN 27, 1994
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 94V017000 NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: VISIBILITY:POWER WINDOW DEVICES AND CONTROLS

Summary:
THE REMOTE ACTIVATION DEVICE CAN CLOSE WINDOWS AND SUNROOF FROM A DISTANCE GREATER THAN THE MAXIMUM (6 METERS) PERMITTED BY FMVSS NO.118, "POWER OPERATED WINDOW SYSTEMS."

Consequence:
CONSEQUENCE OF NON-COMPLIANCE: THIS COULD ALLOW WINDOWS OR SUNROOFS TO BE CLOSED ON AN ARM OR NECK OF AN INDIVIDUAL WHEN THE REMOTE DEVICE OPERATOR IS NOT WITHIN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY.

Remedy:
REPLACE THE INSIDE REAR VIEW MIRROR WHICH HAS THE ACTIVATION RECEIVER WITH ONE WHOSE RECEIVER WILL CONTROL THE DOOR LOCKING AND THEFT ALARM, BUT WILL NOT PERMIT REMOTE OPERATION OF THE WINDOWS AND SUNROOF.

Notes:
SYSTEM: EQUIPMENT; ELECTRIC POWER ACCESSORIES; WINDOWS. VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH REMOTE ACTIVATION DEVICES FOR DOOR LOCKING AND THEFT ALARM ARMING. NOTE: IF YOUR VEHICLE IS PRESENTED TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND THE REMEDY IS NOT PROVIDED WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME AND FREE OF CHARGE OR THE REMEDY DOES NOT CORRECT THE DEFECT OR NONCOMPLIANCE, PLEASE CONTACT BMW SERVICE CENTER AT 1-201-573-2100. ALSO, CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-800-424-9393.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls...intVersion=YES

- - - Updated - - -

On later USA BMWs, they allowed opening but not closing to maintain compliance, but on the E31, they just threw away the feature altogether. Don't bother trying it with the other key, since your 850CSi has a 10/1994 build date, it already has the updated/crippled mirror.

Ollin, you don't have a PN for the mirror that should work do ya?

Hi CaifanSC, correction I can close all windows and sunroof with the IR keyfob...but I cannot​ open.

Call me crazy...but that's a good compromise to use that awesome switchblade key

[legoman67]

i believe a few minutes in NCSexpert can reactivate comfort opening/closing.

[CaifanSC]

i believe a few minutes in NCSexpert can reactivate comfort opening/closing.

Do you know the coding that has to be changed? Sorry, I'm not familiar with this stuff...I've actually never ventured to use the diagnostics software.

[olinjohnston]

i believe a few minutes in NCSexpert can reactivate comfort opening/closing.

Do you know the coding that has to be changed? Sorry, I'm not familiar with this stuff...I've actually never ventured to use the diagnostics software.

Sadly, NO.

As I said in my earlier post:

Since the recall removes the hardware that allows it [swapping mirrors], it cannot be brought back with coding.

- - - Updated - - -

The "safety recall" nonsense dictates that the feature be irreversibly disabled. If simply coding could bring it back, then the original recall would have just been coding and not the expensive replacement of a bunch of rear view mirrors... Definitely try it though!

[revtor]

i believe a few minutes in NCSexpert can reactivate comfort opening/closing.

I'm afraid olinjohnston is right. The (remote) comfort closing functionality is controlled by the rear-view mirror and its coding cannot be changed through NCS Expert, ToolSet32 or SSS... If you look at the coding of the remote control system in INPA you can actually see the comfort closing settings (called "luxury opening and closing). The infrared rear-view mirrors with working comfort closing have both luxury opening and closing set to "active". The early radio frequency rear-view mirrors have luxury opening set to "active" and luxury closing to "inactive" (the later mirrors show "unknown" for both). This suggests the behavior can be changed but sadly not with the coding software that is available to us. I assume programming the microcontroller in the rear-view mirror directly should work, but there's no documentation on what bits control what...

By the way, the general module (GM) does have a function "KOMFORTSCHLIESSUNG" (comfort closing), but it is set to "nicht_aktiv" (inactive) for all E31 - including the early ones that have working comfort closing. Enabling this function has no effect.

[CaifanSC]

I'm afraid olinjohnston is right. The (remote) comfort closing functionality is controlled by the rear-view mirror and its coding cannot be changed through NCS Expert, ToolSet32 or SSS... If you look at the coding of the remote control system in INPA you can actually see the comfort closing settings (called "luxury opening and closing). The infrared rear-view mirrors with working comfort closing have both luxury opening and closing set to "active". The early radio frequency rear-view mirrors have luxury opening set to "active" and luxury closing to "inactive" (the later mirrors show "unknown" for both). This suggests the behavior can be changed but sadly not with the coding software that is available to us. I assume programming the microcontroller in the rear-view mirror directly should work, but there's no documentation on what bits control what...

By the way, the general module (GM) does have a function "KOMFORTSCHLIESSUNG" (comfort closing), but it is set to "nicht_aktiv" (inactive) for all E31 - including the early ones that have working comfort closing. Enabling this function has no effect.

Revtor, do you have the comfort closing/opening in your CSi? If I can get the PN for a mirror that is known to work I can start looking around for prices.

Thanks!

[revtor]

CaifanSC: My E31 has radio frequency remote locking so no comfort closing...

[CaifanSC]

CaifanSC: My E31 has radio frequency remote locking so no comfort closing...

Thread resuscitation

Revtor, so after re-reading this thread...if I understand correctly you at least have the comfort opening function? If so, would it be possible to check the part number in your mirror? I would be willing to at least compromise and have the opening function.

Thanks!

[revtor]

Revtor, so after re-reading this thread...if I understand correctly you at least have the comfort opening function? If so, would it be possible to check the part number in your mirror?

Yes, comfort opening works. Closing does not. My '95 E31 originally came with 51 16 8 186 359 (1995 up to mid 1996) but I replaced it with 51 16 8 213 058 (mid 1996 until end of production). Functionality-wise both are the same but the newer one is more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion (the newer one lacks the switch to disable the electrochromic dimming though). Keep in mind both have 433 MHz receivers. US legislation does not permit the use of that frequency band. You may want to look in their 315 MHz equivalents: 51 16 8 193 883 and 51 16 8 213 229.

51 16 8 186 359 / 51 16 8 193 883 (1995 up to mid 1996):



51 16 8 213 058 / 51 16 8 213 229 (mid 1996 until end of production):



Update: See olinjohnston's reply below. It appears the 315 MHz models have comfort opening disabled as well.

[olinjohnston]

I am thinking that this would be VERY difficult to add to USA-spec cars with the earlier on/off RF mirror. Since the recall involved replacing the entire mirror assembly, and the subsequent ones were immediately updated to exclude this feature, I doubt replacing the mirror with another 315mhz one would allow it to work. Again, this pertains to the EARLY RF mirror cars like my 94 840Ci.


"SUBJECT:

Recall Campaign 94V-017

MODELS:

540i (E34); 8 Series (E31)

Description of Problem:

BMW has determined that certain 1994 Model Year BMW 540i, 840Ci, 850Ci, and 850CSi automobiles fail to conform to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 118, Power-Operated Window, Partition, and Roof Panel Systems.

Safety Standard No. 118 limits the operating range of radio-frequency (RF) remote control devices for closing or opening windows and/or sunroofs to a maximum of 6 meters (approximately 20 feet) from the vehicle (by the way, this is why the range sucks). It is possible that, in limited circumstances, the remote control system may be capable of closing open windows and/or sunroof from a distance of greater than 6 meters.


Vehicles Affected:

This recall covers 540i (E34), and all E31 vehicles, produced from 8/93 to 10/93. In order to determine if a specific vehicle is affected by this recall campaign, it will be necessary to utilize the "Service Menu" of the DCS (Dealer Communication System). Proceed to "Inquiries;" "Vehicle History" and enter the chassis number (last seven characters) of the vehicle in question. Based on the response of the system, either proceed with the corrective action or take no further action."

...

"The "convenience closing" function (E31 and E34) and the "convenience opening" function (E31) have been eliminated from production as of October 1993."

[peezen]

isn't there an aftermarket keyless entry kit that someone who posted on here before that claims it will auto up and down if your car already has the hardwars for auto up and down? I have a '91 Euro spec, with auto up and down with the key in the door, and want to pick one up.

[CaifanSC]

Hhh....help me think this through. To me it still seems like there is a correct mirror out there that just needs to be sourced.

From the two tech bulletins you posted olin it seems like the correct hardware was originally installed in some cars, hardware with the correct 315mhz US frequency -hence the recall- so that hardware apparently exists. IF their solution was a simple mirror swap, then to me, it seems like there is a high chance that installing the original mirror is a likely solution.

I'm gathering that the early cars with this mirror were recalled since they were already released and when they say the function was "eliminated" it probably just means the subsequent cars came with the "new" mirror that deactivated the function. Thoughts?

isn't there an aftermarket keyless entry kit that someone who posted on here before that claims it will auto up and down if your car already has the hardwars for auto up and down? I have a '91 Euro spec, with auto up and down with the key in the door, and want to pick one up.

I do believe there was an aftermarket kit that tapped into the OEM system and used the auto up/down function...was it the "united' kit maybe?

[mac840]

Yes it was the kit from united auto security

[olinjohnston]

From the two tech bulletins you posted olin it seems like the correct hardware was originally installed in some cars, hardware with the correct 315mhz US frequency -hence the recall- so that hardware apparently exists. IF their solution was a simple mirror swap, then to me, it seems like there is a high chance that installing the original mirror is a likely solution.

I'm gathering that the early cars with this mirror were recalled since they were already released and when they say the function was "eliminated" it probably just means the subsequent cars came with the "new" mirror that deactivated the function. Thoughts?

Yes, the original one you would have to swap to on a 94-95 car would be one made before 10/1993 - about one month. This "working" one would be super rare.

[MParallel]

It's pretty frustrating. Same issue on E36 remote receivers. In EU we also have the panic mode function disabled,

We have comfort opening and closing, but not remote opening and closing.

Same reason: safety.

Now years later, every modern car has this function, so nowadays this safety argument has become non-applicable for some strange reason.

More frustrating even, if you have a BMW approved/dealer installed alarm, all these functions are available.

But if you have the factory installed alarm, with the new keyfob, you don't.

In an old article BMW explains why the E36 M3 SMG doesn't have shift paddles on the wheel. This was unsafe because a driver could be confused what is up, what is down as on a streetcar the steering wheel rotates more than a full revolution, while a race car only like 120 max.

Nowadays every car with a (semi)auto tranmission has paddle shifters on the wheel.

In the E36 SMG case though, it's easy to retrofit paddles.

[MNurmenniemi]

Yes it was the kit from united auto security

I have installed one of these to my -91, auto close is really nice.

[MParallel]

Yes, comfort opening works. Closing does not. My '95 E31 originally came with 51 16 8 186 359 (1995 up to mid 1996) but I replaced it with 51 16 8 213 058 (mid 1996 until end of production). Functionality-wise both are the same but the newer one is more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion (the newer one lacks the switch to disable the electrochromic dimming though). Keep in mind both have 433 MHz receivers. US legislation does not permit the use of that frequency band. You may want to look in their 315 MHz equivalents: 51 16 8 193 883 and 51 16 8 213 229.

51 16 8 186 359 / 51 16 8 193 883 (1995 up to mid 1996):



51 16 8 213 058 / 51 16 8 213 229 (mid 1996 until end of production):



Update: See olinjohnston's reply below. It appears the 315 MHz models have comfort opening disabled as well.

Revtor, when you say comfort opening, you mean remote comfort opening right?

Could it possibly mean thst using an older 8 series remote receiver/pcb allows remote comfort opening on an E36?

EDIT: nevermind, the E31 mirror p/n is also used on the e36 and is the mirror I have. So it must be the E31 GM that provides the function.

[radlaw]

My '95 E31 originally came with 51 16 8 186 359 (1995 up to mid 1996) but I replaced it with 51 16 8 213 058 (mid 1996 until end of production). Functionality-wise both are the same but the newer one is more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion (the newer one lacks the switch to disable the electrochromic dimming though). Keep in mind both have 433 MHz receivers. US legislation does not permit the use of that frequency band. You may want to look in their 315 MHz equivalents: 51 16 8 193 883 and 51 16 8 213 229.

Can a 443Mhz mirror be converted to 315Mhz? If so how?

[MParallel]

Can a 443Mhz mirror be converted to 315Mhz? If so how?

May try here. Looks possible, with special equipment.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-or-ZKE-system

[mr1173]

I bought a used E36-EU mirror with 433Mhz RF (without auto dimm) from Germany. Transplanted RF board into my original mirror.

20170118_172944.jpg 20170118_172952.jpg

Bought 433Mhz chinese 3-button keyes. Swapped the EWS chip, cut the key.

Huge difference! Operating range is now exact the same I had in my European E39 when I lived outside the US.
With 315Mhz at some parking lots I had to put the key right near the mirror to open/close my car. Capacitor replacement or transmitter (board in the key) replacement did not help.

But "convenience closing" still does not work.