Calling all E30/m20 owners. Advice needed please

[Boosted2.08vdub]

This is a repost because the last title could not be changed.
TIA for any help. Im looking to buy a E30 325is. My 2.0 had 10:1CR stock I put 2 factory headgaskets on along with ARP headstuds which yielded 8.8:1. AIC for fuel, chip for ignition retard. Beleive it or not holds up to 20psi on a T3 60 trim 93. Can I get results like this out of a stock M20 engine??

1. Ive read that CR of this engine (M20)is 8.8:1, how do the internals hold up to boost?

2. How much power can this drivetrain handle? 5spd of course. Hows the gearing for boost?

3. It seems the hardest part of the whole setup is finding a turbo manifold flanged for a T4 with external wastegate. On my forum there are plenty of people willing to make custom pieces for fair prices. Anyone on here??

4. Last question, what do people usually do for fuel and ignition management on these cars?

Im looking for 250-300whp, on stock engine components, with a T4 that will give full boost at around 3500-4000rpm. Seem doable??? Thanks alot for any suggestions or advice. Boost is def. an addiction

[diegom6]

This is a repost because the last title could not be changed.
TIA for any help. Im looking to buy a E30 325is. My 2.0 had 10:1CR stock I put 2 factory headgaskets on along with ARP headstuds which yielded 8.8:1. AIC for fuel, chip for ignition retard. Beleive it or not holds up to 20psi on a T3 60 trim 93. Can I get results like this out of a stock M20 engine??

1. Ive read that CR of this engine (M20)is 8.8:1, how do the internals hold up to boost?

2. How much power can this drivetrain handle? 5spd of course. Hows the gearing for boost?

3. It seems the hardest part of the whole setup is finding a turbo manifold flanged for a T4 with external wastegate. On my forum there are plenty of people willing to make custom pieces for fair prices. Anyone on here??

4. Last question, what do people usually do for fuel and ignition management on these cars?

Im looking for 250-300whp, on stock engine components, with a T4 that will give full boost at around 3500-4000rpm. Seem doable??? Thanks alot for any suggestions or advice. Boost is def. an addiction

I don't know how your 2 headgaskets are still holding those PSIs... :

My M20 is standard, I dropped a T3/T4 in there, never boosted more than 10 PSI since I didn't setup my SMT6 Piggy Back system for the timing and fuel curves tune.

I'm using 21 Lb/h injectors with Vortech FMU 10:1 with stock advance.

I'm using a tiny IC, but arrived few days ago my true FMIC and byt omorrow should arriving my Fully T4, sicne I want more power and larger exahust downpie of 3" , currently using 2 1/4"

Todd ( TCD ) a member of here, is using his Kit and putted the last time arround 249RWHP non intercooled arround 10-12 PSI I think... he thinks with his custom Aftercooler and with 15 PSI should be hitting the 300-320 RWHP barrier...

I heared people putting arround up to 400-450 HP on stock internals on the m20.... :


BTW...click in the 325is Turbo link that is in my SIG, there are some pics of my custom turbo

[frankie1000]

i've heard a few things about the stock internals. not sure but it think i read the m20b20 is lower than the the m20b25 CR.

Alos on this forum that the crank or rods are not forged. weather this is factor im not sure

i used to have an e30 325i Se na it was great. the gearing on that was fine, the sport had even better ratios. i think for the 325i vs the sport on forced induction... on that setup i reckon the non sport gearing would be suited more.

You can get a t3 manifold flange adaptor for the m20 easy. i saw one and enquired after reading on bmwe30.net, it was from sweden or abouts, not too expensive, and well made.



check out that forum for it, might be someone there that knows

[Boosted2.08vdub]

Thanks for the link, theres actually someone in my town thats selling them. Im gonna give him a call tomorrow. Ill get back to anyone who cares if its ex wg or not.

Ive seen some bmws with a maf (I beleive) before the TB, is this effective? I dont know why no one has tried that on a VW. On vws motronic people usually tune with an afc, bigger injectors and if needed bigger maf but is always before the turbo on the inlet.

[e21pilot]

I don't know for sure but I think it's because you want the MAF to sense all of the air when its compressed so it can dish out the proper amount of fuel via the injectors?

[diegom6]

Thanks for the link, theres actually someone in my town thats selling them. Im gonna give him a call tomorrow. Ill get back to anyone who cares if its ex wg or not.

Ive seen some bmws with a maf (I beleive) before the TB, is this effective? I dont know why no one has tried that on a VW. On vws motronic people usually tune with an afc, bigger injectors and if needed bigger maf but is always before the turbo on the inlet.

I'm using my "AFM" after the turbo, no issues, I will swapp a MAF later and tune it with the SMT6, I didn't decide in wich position dropp it,if before or after the turbo.

The guy who sold me the SMT6( a dealer) recomend me put after the turbo and tune there, it's more accurate since is the real load wich is feeding the engine.

Also, I heared that the m20b25 or any m20 at least are semiforged parts, dunno if is true or is confirmed. There is a guy in this board that shaved his Mahle Piston (OWM M20 pistons) up to 6.8:1 CR Standalone system dunno what size of turbo tough and was putting arround 500 HP I saw the vid, was beast!!

[Boosted2.08vdub]

''I'm using 21 Lb/h injectors with Vortech FMU 10:1 with stock advance.''

What are the factory size injectors? FMUs are proven but your gonna love the switchover to the SMT6, let me know how tha goes for you.

When you say stock advance your saying you are using a stock ecu with no chip in it?

I have a wideband so tuning fuel shouldnt be a problem, but I wanted to see how far you could take the stock ignition maps before I would have to call a tuner for a chip. I personally have had problems with ''custom'' chips.

[diegom6]

''I'm using 21 Lb/h injectors with Vortech FMU 10:1 with stock advance.''

What are the factory size injectors? FMUs are proven but your gonna love the switchover to the SMT6, let me know how tha goes for you.

When you say stock advance your saying you are using a stock ecu with no chip in it?

I have a wideband so tuning fuel shouldnt be a problem, but I wanted to see how far you could take the stock ignition maps before I would have to call a tuner for a chip. I personally have had problems with ''custom'' chips.

Seems to ping or Knock about 10 PSI on stock timing when the engine is hot like I said, but if is cold it doens't ping, and no, is not a poor fuel deliver, it's runing abit rich.

I have stock ECU, no chipps or so...so the advance is working as standar should be.

If someone can make a custom chipp fpr you should be great, but it should be done once the turbo is installed and will take a lot of time to get the correct fuel curves and such things.

[grecobeemer]

Hey Diegom6, so pinging is 10psi and more? ANy probs less than 10psi. Curious because still planning low-boost turbo system.

[diegom6]

Hey Diegom6, so pinging is 10psi and more? ANy probs less than 10psi. Curious because still planning low-boost turbo system.

10 PSI is only activated when I need more boost to beat someone in the road, but always my boost controller is off, so only charge about 7-7.5 PSI at those PSIs the engine doesn't have any problem, I will test by these days try to boost only 9 PSI when the engine is hot and we will see if the ping come back again...I want to dyno my car at the maximun boost possible with out ipingng before put my Fully T4 and FMIC and then do the same to see what HPs gains have after those upgrades at the same boots level

EDIT: grecobeemer, looks like we have the same Jeep isn't it? what model is yours? mine is 87 too but stroker

[Bmwandreas]

We have 2 M20B25 at 500hp.

My friend have 600hp on a stock M20B25, only special is ARP head bolts and our turbo cam for M20.

And of course a good engine management system..


/Andreas

[Bmwandreas]

This is my M20 engine in my E-34: http://w1.226.telia.com/~u22610068/525an/klar.JPG

I have dynotested it to 457hp@707nm, with a stock M20B20 head.


Now it is upgrade to a ported M20B25 head, so 500hp on unloaded fuel is not a problem.

[grecobeemer]

Thanks diegom6 for the info. So 6-8psi no prob with the M20?

EDIT: grecobeemer, looks like we have the same Jeep isn't it? what model is yours? mine is 87 too but stroker

87 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L(Was going to bore over to 4.2L but got E34 instead).
Dana 44 F Axle, Positrac rear Diff. Gave it to my mom and she loves it.

[Boosted2.08vdub]

Could someone please clarify the difference between a M20B20 and M20B25?
Those are some awesome numbers for an internally stock engine. Im looking for 250-300, on a stock engine management though. Along with either bigger injectors/tuned chip or an AIC.

[GreekDriver]

I curious how the Getrag holds up with so much power too.

Would a 3.73 LSD be better for than a 4.10 LSD? I assume it would keep the car in its power range longer.

[diegom6]

This is my M20 engine in my E-34: http://w1.226.telia.com/~u22610068/525an/klar.JPG

I have dynotested it to 457hp@707nm, with a stock M20B20 head.


Now it is upgrade to a ported M20B25 head, so 500hp on unloaded fuel is not a problem.

wow!!! Andreas, could you tell me how much boost are you putting in that M20? also how many grades of retard to achieve that power are you using?

I just recently got a full T4!!!

[techno550]

my first question is why do you want to make 250-300 hp with a T4? you'd have to make a custom manifold, buy a T4, and an external wastegate. the T3 flanges are popular for a reason. if you want to make 500+ hp to the wheels, then somehting with a T4 flange is the way to go. but for half that? why spend triple the $$ for no gain in performance? acutally, less performance. you won't make boost until very late. you could make the same peak HP, but see full boost well before 3k rpm. area under the curve is your friend.

[diegom6]

my first question is why do you want to make 250-300 hp with a T4? you'd have to make a custom manifold, buy a T4, and an external wastegate. the T3 flanges are popular for a reason. if you want to make 500+ hp to the wheels, then somehting with a T4 flange is the way to go. but for half that? why spend triple the $$ for no gain in performance? acutally, less performance. you won't make boost until very late. you could make the same peak HP, but see full boost well before 3k rpm. area under the curve is your friend.

are you refering me?? :

[Bmwandreas]

wow!!! Andreas, could you tell me how much boost are you putting in that M20? also how many grades of retard to achieve that power are you using?

I just recently got a full T4!!!

With our turbo cams, you don´t have to boost so much, to get much hp.

I have 450hp at 14psi, on a slightly ported M20B25 head. Stock intake manifold. With ours special intake manifold the hp gains a little bit more.
The turbo will do 550hp, and the boost comes around 2000 rpm.
Our exhaust manifolds will give much more response.

I have a autronic managemant system, i have 18 grades at 18psi with unloaded fuel.


/Andreas

[techno550]

are you refering me?? :

no, the first post in this thread said "Im looking for 250-300whp, on stock engine components, with a T4 that will give full boost at around 3500-4000rpm.".
was just saying that if you're only looking for 250-300 whp, why a T4 and why wait until 4k rpm to make boost?

[diegom6]

With our turbo cams, you don´t have to boost so much, to get much hp.

I have 450hp at 14psi, on a slightly ported M20B25 head. Stock intake manifold. With ours special intake manifold the hp gains a little bit more.
The turbo will do 550hp, and the boost comes around 2000 rpm.
Our exhaust manifolds will give much more response.

I have a autronic managemant system, i have 18 grades at 18psi with unloaded fuel.


/Andreas

I see, that's awesome, but your cam feels like the standar one in idle for example? What differences has witht he stock one? lift? overlap? duaration?

Do you sell those cams...

[Boosted2.08vdub]

Well I want a straight T4 because I prefer my powerband to start later off. This is a 6cyl and I dont want a little pussy turbo for it. If I went t3 turbine, Id get a stage 5 wheel which makes no sense to me, rather go to a T4. Drive around get good mpg than when I want to stomp on it this motha will fly on relatively low boost. With my current car I get 17psi buy 3krpm, ya its great but I just fry my tires. Shitload of tourqe, but power drops off bad which makes me shift around 5500.

Michael, seems like you have a pretty sick setup going, was the stroker kit worth the labor involved? Also, what exhaust AR and stage wheel you using? A turbod 5 series is one bad ass sleeper .

[Bmwandreas]

I see, that's awesome, but your cam feels like the standar one in idle for example? What differences has witht he stock one? lift? overlap? duaration?

Do you sell those cams...

280 grades, more lift, and more lob separation. They are made for stock cam gear!They work great up to 8000 rpm, we have made a 700hp M20 engine with this camshaft.
And we sell them.

They cost 650 dollars + shipping

[danpinder]

280 grades, more lift, and more lob separation. They are made for stock cam gear!They work great up to 8000 rpm, we have made a 700hp M20 engine with this camshaft.
And we sell them.

They cost 650 dollars + shipping

How much for the intake manifold? Does it have velocity stacks?

Very interested if you could post a picture.

[Bmwandreas]

How much for the intake manifold? Does it have velocity stacks?

Very interested if you could post a picture.

I don´t have a picture right now, a take one when we build another one!
And price i don´t know right now.. we have just opened our factory, and we are planing to start building parts soon.

Before we only mad things for ourselfes and friends.

We have made exhaust manifolds and more stuffs for at least 40 bmw turbos here in sweden. So we know what parts that will work