Member
Yeah, steering shaft will be connected after the fact. I contemplated wrapping the headers but I don't think I have room for it, at least definitely not in between the individual primaries. I'll either have them ceramic coated or just lay down some reflective shielding on the metal work in close proximity to the headers.Originally Posted by natem31995
Thanks Leo. I saw you were able to get yours really tucked up there nice (roughly flush with the oil pan from what I could tell?). This is about as high as I can go without messing with notching the bell housing - the quick time has a big flange that protrudes out around the block as compared to the stock bell. I'd like to tuck everything up higher though so I may end up clearancing it a bit.
- - - Updated - - -
According to Bimmerworld, treehouse is no longer around. If you call the number listed on their website, it's disconnected. Did you buy your them new or did you get them second hand?
The only other low profile fcab centered option I've seen is the adjustable AKG solid spherical mounts.
Last edited by ckpitt55; 03-03-2015 at 11:34 PM.
Member
Damn. Didn't know they closed. I bought the fcabs new at least six months ago.
That's too bad.
John
E36 LS3
Member
Damn it, I was hoping you knew something I didn't haha
Member
SOMEBODY makes a knock off set of the Treehouse fcabs. I remember coming across them when I was shopping for the centered Treehouse versions. I'm pretty sure they were painted blue instead of green but I can't recall the company that produced them.
If I come across them, I'll post it.
John
E36 LS3
Member
If I may...Ask yourself if you "need" the 17/8 primaries. My engine makes very good torque and ~490whp na from a 6l. My primaries are 15/8 stepped to 1/3/4. If you go smaller you will have better low/midrange torque and with more clearance especially in critical areas. You don't want your primaries as low as I am seeing them...especially for typical street ride height and especially for the track/ clipping any curbing aggressively.
also...that number 7 looks dicey with respect to a thick 8mm well insulated performance wire. The sleeve will likely be touching something glowing and will end up burning...read on...
Another solution...
Just a tip to consider carefully..before you fully commit...An obvious option that almost everyone who has done this conversion from scratch do not consider..and should...is that why not move the engine forward ~ 1-1.5". By doing this you will solve more fitment/future maintenance issues than you know of. Modifying your oilpan is the only "technical issue" that you'll need to resolve. The over-all weight transfer relative to new position is not significant and you can still bring the overall balance very close to 52fr/48rr or better depending on how you configure your extra coolers, weight reduction ideas etc.
Also..i notched my QuickTime housing faceplate, I also have the transmission crossmember designed with arches on either side for exhaust pipe clearance. Just a reminder again though... the tighter everything fits up the more heat ends up in the oilpan, and the transmission!
Topfuelman
Member
Was it bimmerworld? http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerw...nts-p1301.aspx. I recently inquired about a centered design and they said they didn't have anything in the works....offset only.
Thanks for your input...all good points to consider.
Why 1-7/8"? Most dyno results I've seen for well sorted combos have given up nothing down low to a smaller primary size while also carrying slightly better up top. Whether or not that translates to our e36 chassis and the way the longtubes layout, who knows. I thought it'd be an interesting challenge / experiment and will give me room to grow if I ever end up dropping in a larger engine someday down the line.
I'm going to clearance the bell housing so I can tuck the collectors up as high as I can to hopefully resolve the ground clearance problems....do you happen to have any pics of the clearancing you did for reference? I'm probably also going to need to go back to a low profile fcab for the extra room as Maynor was saying - if I can find one. As for the plug wires - we'll see how it lays out once I get them in. I'm sure I'll be tweaking the primaries some once I'm at that point. That being said, I've been checking fitment as I've gone along with some wires with a straight connector and contact has been minimal - probably to the point that I could bend the boot slightly to achieve clearance. I'm hopeful that with a 45 degree boot and a heat sock that I'll be ok.
As for engine positioning - that's done. Angles were measured and set, motor and trans mounts are already finished, driveshaft is cut to length, etc. Not trying to revisit that stuff. It is a good point though and I'll hold onto that idea for next time.
Last edited by ckpitt55; 03-04-2015 at 02:50 AM.
Member
The header fab saga continues...
Started the weekend by tearing everything out of the car and notching the bell housing flange. I believe this will allow me to tuck the collectors up in a much better position in regards to ground clearance.
The bottom primaries will be flush with the oil pan now.
Since I pretty much need to start over anyway I took some time to reroute #1 for better clearances everywhere. Now clears the spark plug without an issue and I have plenty of air gap for the oil cooler lines. Experimented with an alternative routing for #3 that I think will also work much better.
Also picked up this guy to help with tubing fit-up and finishing. It's been a huge help so far
Here's one of the collectors after a couple minutes with the scotch-brite belt
More progress to report this week hopefully
Last edited by ckpitt55; 03-10-2015 at 08:51 AM.
Member
(I think) I finished the driver's side mockup this weekend
frame rail clearance
Tight here, but about the best I could muster and still give enough clearance for the steering shaft. I might bump the frame rail a bit in this location to give me a little more room. Spark plug clearance on #7 is tight but I think I'll be ok with a 45 degree boot and heat sock. Still waiting on the plug wires to show up so I can check clearance...
Steering shaft clearance
Ground clearance. Glad I decided to notch the bellhousing to move things up, thanks to all who chimed in on that.
Last edited by ckpitt55; 03-23-2015 at 09:28 AM.
Member
Great work!
Tipsy
Member
Awesome work! How do you weld the inside area of the pipes by the collector?
Member
With a really big cup and an extremely long stickout, aluminum foil wrapped around to hold the argon in, you could probably get 3/4" of the way around. These collectors really aren't meant to weld on though - they're a very tight slip fit and will be secured with springs/tabs. If RTV won't seal them then I'll try to figure out how to weld them. If I had to do it all over again I probably would have done double slips, but I wasn't sure if the packaging constraints would have allowed for the extra space in between primary tubes.
Member
Ah okay, I was always curious, thank you!
Member
Sorry for the lack of updates, been insanely busy lately. Between work, grad school, helping friends with their cars / projects, building a property gate for my aunt, there hasn't been a whole lot of time for the car....but I've still been throwing any remaining time at it I've had.
Since last time, I've decided not to use the single slip collectors based on everything I've read saying that they won't seal.....lack of research on the front end on my part but hindsight is 20/20. With O2's downstream, any air leakage could distort my AFRs and ultimately make getting it to run right problematic. So double slip collectors it is - but instead of buying them I opted to try making them myself.
3d printed fixture I designed in solidworks to hold the madrel bends in my chop saw for cutting
made some backpurging plugs - a small diffuser threads into the center there to help reduce turbulence and distribute the argon more evenly. works great.
welding / purge setup for the double slips
Was able to get my settings relatively dialed - for those that care, these are fusion welded with 75 amps, 1 pps, 50% on time, 20% background current, with around 20 CFH on the torch and 10 seconds of postflow. Still working to get the penetration consistent, but I'm damn close to full pen
Still in the process of cutting / sanding / welding these things together. I had a tack break loose on me half way through a side seam on the first one I was working on which turned that whole thing into scrap. Fitment honestly wasn't that great on it anyway - I sanded them too far to clean them up and the slips started interfering with each other....which means it wouldn't take much heat cycling (thermal expansion) for these things to crack apart. It's been a pretty brutal learning curve getting to this point......I definitely understand why they're so expensive now given the fabrication effort involved.....but I think I'll be able to get these done soon and continue onward with the rest of the headers.
Aside from that, I've started loosely replicating the cuts for the primaries in stainless and got the positioning set for my O2 bungs in the driver's side collector - 1 for the PCM, 1 for wideband tuning.
More soon and thanks for looking
Last edited by ckpitt55; 05-08-2015 at 02:29 PM.
Member
Nice update man, keep it up!
Member
I started over on the collector and thought up a means of fixturing the fitup and keeping things from pulling too much during welding. I spaced the bosses to allow for .050" gap between the double slips when cold...hopefully this should provide for minimal interference once things get hot and should help it to resist cracking from heat cycling.
Waiting on a couple things to finish welding this out. Hoping to finish this soon so I can get the driver's side header wrapped up.
Member
Somehow reading your posts makes me feel like everything I accomplish is tantamount to snapping Legos together
Tipsy
Last edited by TipsyMcStagger; 05-19-2015 at 06:51 PM.
Major Lazer
The collector looks great and so is the fab work. Is that jig also a purge manifold?
2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
Build Thread
The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself
Member
Somehow reading your posts makes me feel like everything I accomplish is tantamount snapping Legos together
TipsyThanks gents.
Robert, yes - I cross drilled the baseplate and fitted a small diffuser in the center. My hope is that this will protect the area in between the slips and help with getting good penetration while welding the rest of the seams from the inside. I'm going to wrap aluminum foil around the perimeter of the collector to trap in the argon.
Member
Great work man! Awesome progress!
Member
what a fantastic idea. 3D printing has really opened up a lot of options to creative parts, if you have access to a printer.
Member
they definitely have
Thanks man
Made some good progress on the collector since last time
I ordered a CK 70 amp microtorch to weld the inside of the merge. It can probably be done without one of these, but I couldn't really see a way to get down in there with the standard 17 with a big cup needed to stick the tungsten out far enough to reach. This ended up working really nice - plenty of room to manipulate the torch angle as necessary, though positioning the filler was still kind of difficult.
Inside of the collector welded and blended
Next I had to expand the weld seams at the outlet so that it would mate up to the secondary portion of the collector. This is usually done on a hydraulic tubing expander but I don't have the coin for one of those, so just hammered it out carefully on a shot bag.
Retention tabs/springs positioned and tacked
Everything tacked up with the double slip "stubs" slid into place for alignment
Welding the double slips.
Some time later:
I still need to finish welding the vband flange on, but before I do I want to figure out a means of clamping it down to an aluminum chill block to keep it from warping.
This was a challenge and a half. So much respect for the pros that do this stuff full time and make it look easy. Still one more to build, it should be easier.
Header build out to resume shortly.
Last edited by ckpitt55; 06-01-2015 at 10:02 AM.
Major Lazer
Great progress Chuck; welds are looking good. I hear you on this being a challenge but it definitely gets easier as you proceed.
2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
Build Thread
The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself
Member
Over the past week I've been able to get the new collector repositioned under the car and start linking the primaries back up to it. It was a challenge getting the fit at the collector to the point that I could hold the tube with one hand and fusion tack it with the tig in the other while lying under the car lol - much less forgiving since it needs to be a tight fitting butt joint on either side to weld up nice.
Things got a little interesting with #7 - fighting tight clearances with the steering shaft and frame rail while also trying to maximize spark plug / wire clearance. The bend radius of the mandrel bent tubing wasn't getting it done so I opted to try some pie cuts to get tighter bends out of it.
Was able to maximize spark wire clearance pretty well. Fitment between the steering shaft and frame rail is about as good as it can be with the space I have available - about 3/8" on either side.
I have the final pieces for #7 cut but it was late and I ran out of steam / patience for fitup at the collector. Almost ready to pull it out and weld up the primaries though.
More soon.
Member
Good progress!! Can't wait for more updates man!!
Member
True definition of one-off headers right there. That is how my first set came out 10 years ago and is why I could never make a case to reproduce them...way too difficult to reproduce the complex fitment!
Your #7 solution is beautiful and will save you much grief down the road from melted plug wires. I absolutely love your workmanship and attention to detail!
T
Over the past week I've been able to get the new collector repositioned under the car and start linking the primaries back up to it. It was a challenge getting the fit at the collector to the point that I could hold the tube with one hand and fusion tack it with the tig in the other while lying under the car lol - much less forgiving since it needs to be a tight fitting butt joint on either side to weld up nice.
Things got a little interesting with #7 - fighting tight clearances with the steering shaft and frame rail while also trying to maximize spark plug / wire clearance. The bend radius of the mandrel bent tubing wasn't getting it done so I opted to try some pie cuts to get tighter bends out of it.
Was able to maximize spark wire clearance pretty well. Fitment between the steering shaft and frame rail is about as good as it can be with the space I have available - about 3/8" on either side.
I have the final pieces for #7 cut but it was late and I ran out of steam / patience for fitup at the collector. Almost ready to pull it out and weld up the primaries though.
More soon.
Topfuelman
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