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Thread: Steering wheel vibration on new suspension comes and goes at 65+

  1. #1
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    Steering wheel vibration on new suspension comes and goes at 65+

    96 M3/2/5 on H/R Sports and Bilsteins has a vibration that comes and goes at 65+mph. Has new tie rods, new control arms, new lollipops, has been aligned and has done this with 2 different sets of tires on the front end. Used to be super stable to 150+mph.

    Any ideas on how to diagnose this?

  2. #2
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    my guess is still alignment. Id go back over every nut and bolt of the suspension to make your everything is tight. but def would check alignment again.

    1995 M3 Vortech Supercharged

  3. #3
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    Alignment shops aren't all created equal.. With that said if the alignment checks out, steering rack and pinion, and wheel bearings might be your next stop.
    If the mind can conceive it, & you believe it, you will achieve it. - Napolean Hill
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  4. #4
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    Front wheel bearings are new, rears are not.

    Alignment is set to:
    Front
    -2.5 degrees per side camber
    0.15 degrees total toe in

    Rear
    -1.8 degrees per side camber
    0.15 degree total toe in

    Vehicle has done this through 3 different alignment shops with 3 different techs in 3 different states, but I can go back and double check.

    If a wheel was bent or imbalanced, would that result in a coming and going wheel shake or would that always be present at the same speed?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by powder View Post
    If a wheel was bent or imbalanced, would that result in a coming and going wheel shake or would that always be present at the same speed?
    Yes. Of course.
    If the mind can conceive it, & you believe it, you will achieve it. - Napolean Hill
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1998 Alpine White & 1998 Arctic Silver ///m3/4/5
    JC Intake - ASC Delete - Dinan TB - Flow Matched 21.5# Injectors - JC Tune - SS Euro Reps (modified to retain SAP) - z3m ssk - Eisenmann Race 76mm - Yokohama Advan S2 - Squared LTW's - FK Silverline +X - Rogue FCAB/ RTAB/ RSM/ TM - X-Brace - CDV Delete -Racing Dynamics F&R Strut Braces - NGK BKR6E- German Castrol 0w-40

  6. #6
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    I have the same issue currently on my car. I traced the vibration to my camber plates. Did you change the upper strut mounts when you installed your new suspension?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hide1 View Post
    Yes. Of course.
    You responded to an "either or" with "yes". I assume the vibration would always be present at a given speed if the wheel was bent, but not always present if the wheel was balanced improperly.

    Quote Originally Posted by rirc View Post
    Did you change the upper strut mounts when you installed your new suspension?
    So I'm not sure. Prior to shipping the suspension to Bilstein to be rebuilt, I had -3.5 degrees of camber per side in the front. Upon return and re-install, I have only -2.5 degrees per side. Steering wheel vibration at this speed occurred prior to suspension rebuild, and still occurs. Still scratching my head on that one - I would think that if I had the hats on their stock sides, I would have less static camber. The hats and springs were installed by Bilstein at their shop in LA. I just bolted the coilover back into the vehicle.
    Last edited by powder; 01-20-2014 at 03:08 PM.

  8. #8
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    Why do people think an alignment will cause a vibration? I get customers in here every day that think the same thing, but most of them are women
    The only way the alignment is going to cause a vibration/shake/shimmy is if it's been out of alignment long enough to wear your tires funny. Then the tires might cause a vibration. The alignment itself will not.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rirc View Post
    I traced the vibration to my camber plates.
    I do not have camber plates.

  10. #10
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    Rims are bent or tire is bad or not balanced. also if rims are aftermarket make sure you are using hub centric rings

  11. #11
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    typically if its speed related its a wheel/tire out of balance. I would think a bearing would not only wobble at any speed but make audible noise.

    stupid question just to get it out there...tire pressure good?
    95 Avus 5spd Coupe
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  12. #12
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    Check for a bent rim. Bent rims can be balanced but the reality is they are out of round.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRMe36M3 View Post
    tire pressure good?
    Checked pressure. They are fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by RatedM3 View Post
    Check for a bent rim. Bent rims can be balanced but the reality is they are out of round.
    How far out of round is acceptable?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by akgolfpro View Post
    also if rims are aftermarket make sure you are using hub centric rings
    Rims are stock/staggered contours but have spacers. What is the difference between a bolt-centric and hub-centric spacer? I would assume the bolt-centric spacer to be flat and hub-centric to have a cavity and a positive to keep the hub and center-bore of the wheel aligned. I believe I have a hub-centric spacer.

  14. #14
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    Make sure the wheels are seated properly on the spacers. Sometimes they will sit slightly crooked on the spacer but will appear to spin true. Take them all off, check them, put them back on carefully.

  15. #15
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    I think the rims must be bent. I've tried all the suggestions here to no avail. Still have vibration in the steering wheel between 60-70ish.

    Any recommendations for rim repair in the Bay Area?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by powder View Post
    I think the rims must be bent. I've tried all the suggestions here to no avail. Still have vibration in the steering wheel between 60-70ish.

    Any recommendations for rim repair in the Bay Area?
    check wheels for bends, and road force balance wheels. vibrations seem all too common on these cars ive had it a few times and always traced it back to front tires.

  17. #17
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    Seems like you and I are in similar situations. Does it sometimes do it when you accelerate too?

    I had a bad vibration, before and after New A-arms and lolipops and inner & outer tie-rods as well. Shocks and top hats have like 25K on them. post suspension and steering refresh, I also put the front at -2.3 camber with strut spacers.

    what helped me, but has not gotten rid of my vibrations, was replacing the Steering rack guibo/rubber connection b/t rack and steering column. I presonally think I have too much play in the steering rack itself. rotating the quibo one thread upon installation help the vibration but it's slowly getting worse. I think it pre-loaded the rack a little for less slop. Steering wheel is slightly off now but meh.

    I've run 3 different wheels on each side of the car. New ones with new tires (Kosei K1 w/245 Bridgestone RE11a), old front OE DSIIs with old tires re-ballanced.. . I'm going to put on some 12mm spacers tomorrow, take off the 5mm ones, and see if that helps. I have to run at least a 5mm spacer w/longer bolts b/c I'm using strut spacers for camber on stock shocks. 3mm cuts it too close. If the new 12mm spacers don't get rid of the vibrations, I'll be throwing down some money on a reman steering rack soon.
    98' M3/4/5 - Boston Green / modena
    Forever in process - DD/AutoX/HPDE

  18. #18
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    My money is on the 5mm spacers^^ They don't leave enough lip for the wheel. Been there done that.

    I've never had a bad rack or tie rod cause shimmy. Wheel is bouncing - gotta find the soucre of the bounce. Shimmy is caused by wheels/tires 99.9% of the time. The only other source I've found are worn strut mounts, allowing the wheels to bounce every so slightly.
    Last edited by Eric98Sedan; 02-05-2014 at 05:55 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric98Sedan View Post
    My money is on the 5mm spacers^^ They don't leave enough lip for the wheel. Been there done that.

    I've never had a bad rack or tie rod cause shimmy. Wheel is bouncing - gotta find the soucre of the bounce. Shimmy is caused by wheels/tires 99.9% of the time. The only other source I've found are worn strut mounts, allowing the wheels to bounce every so slightly.
    I am pretty sure It did it with oe wheels that were re-balanced before I started messing with things. I can try the oe wheels again but with 3mm spacers. Maybe none. Can't remember if it will fit.
    98' M3/4/5 - Boston Green / modena
    Forever in process - DD/AutoX/HPDE

  20. #20
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    All I'm saying is you've got to eliminate variables and I can almost assure you that 3mm spacers will cause some shimmy. 10mm and up will not.

  21. #21
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    I didn't get time to replace the spacers last night b/c Birthday, beer and friends over but tonight, tonight will be the night! I'll be checking the strut top hats for any play (if possible on car). The left one and or spring pad started making some sounds lately.

    did I mention that adding a stiffer swaybar made my shimmy worse? I had to take my GC bar off and put the stock on at one point b/c it was so bad. Evidently the links and the stiffness of the swaybar just magnified the vibrations side to side. Removing the front bar completely didn't get rid of it either though.

    Putting the bar back on for an AutoX this weekend so hopefully the shimmy goes away.

    Stupid frickin random wheel shimmy.. .
    98' M3/4/5 - Boston Green / modena
    Forever in process - DD/AutoX/HPDE

  22. #22
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    Happy B-day! Mine was Tues.

    Anywho - yeah these frickin' cars will drive you mad with wheel shimmy. The E46 is just as bad.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric98Sedan View Post
    Happy B-day! Mine was Tues.

    Anywho - yeah these frickin' cars will drive you mad with wheel shimmy. The E46 is just as bad.
    Happy Birthday to you as well!

    I believe these BMWs just have a lot more steering input from the road than I'm used to coming from Honda Civics, S2000 and 06' 350Z, but even my 2008 Civic Si with struts and -3 camber and 6.5 caster didn't have this much input.. . I think the strut mount swaybar has a little to do with it. It's like a damn tuning fork.. .

    Update for the day. Shimmy decreased with the 12mm spacers. BUT, there's always a BUT... . There was one situation, on one stretch of road around the 60mph mark, where the shimmy decided to be bad.

    This car doesn't love me yet. It's still a young, highschool like, relationship at this point.. . Putting the Ground Control front swaybar back on tomorrow for AutoX on Sunday so we'll see how bad it gets now.
    98' M3/4/5 - Boston Green / modena
    Forever in process - DD/AutoX/HPDE

  24. #24
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    I have dealt with BMW wheel shimmy on just about every BMW I have owned. As another poster noted it is almost always wheel/tire related, when suspension is sound. Years ago we had a couple of tire shops that would balance the tire on the car, speed balance. It was time consuming but worked great. I would recommend talking to some speed shops or hot rod people in your area, they will know who does the best job with balancing. Tires are not created equal and some tires have heavy spots that create problems. I have had luck removing the tire, rotating it 180 degrees on the rim and remounting/balancing it. BMW's are very sensitive to balancing and most shops don't take the time, or have the equipment, to balance within BMW specs.

    My rule of thumb, if the seat jiggles at a certain speed rear tires are out of balance. If the steering wheel shakes at speed, front tires. Big aftermarket tires/wheels are a pain.

  25. #25
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    Perhaps one of the new front wishbones is defective.
    You may want to check if your engine mounts are good.

    If you have a bad ball joint or tie rod you'll get a shimmy as the road surface or camber changes cause unwanted steering artifacts on the bad side. This will make the road wheel flutter and send the leverage up to the steering.

    m
    Last edited by mmark.; 02-09-2014 at 12:03 PM.

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