E36 Pikes Peak International Hill Climb race car build

[Tom R]

Great build. You may want to keep a stock of wheel bearings to go with those spacers!

[IDBracing]

I have heard grumblings that wheel spacers will cause problems with wheel bearings, but I've never seen firsthand - or even heard of someone seeing firsthand - actual damage to a wheel bearing from use of a spacer...

For this event, I figure we'll need at minimum 3 sets of wheels. I don't see a point in going with custom offset wheels as opposed to spacers, as it doesn't change the load presented to the wheel bearing/hub...if anything, a better route would be to build new control arms and/or spindle and physically move the hub further out, but that would entail changes to the suspension that we aren't able to make at this time, due to time and cost. But, ultimately, a crazy offset wheel is going to have the inner and outer lips of the wheels in the same spots, and the hub/bearing is going to be in the same spot, and it seems to me that the load presented to the wheel bearing will be the same whether I go spacer or custom wheel...another problem with a custom-offset wheel is the availability. Sure, I can get CCW's made to order (for $700 per wheel or so), but the spacer method will also will make it easier in case I damage a wheel, or multiple wheels, or for whatever reason I need a replacement ASAP - if I'm across the country and I have a bad practice weekend and go off-track and manage to damage more wheels than I brought, chances are much better for me to be able to borrow a wheel or purchase one quickly if I'm using a commercially available size, as opposed to a custom wheel...if CCW gets a call on a Friday that I have to race Sunday and I just damaged a wheel, are they going to be able to get me one made or am I going to miss the race? This way, I'm using 'regular' BMW roadracing wheels/offsets, and should the need for another wheel arise it won't be next to impossible to locate one.

I've also run wheel spacers on pretty much every single 200+mph Porsche that I've built, and some of those have 3-4 years of street driving with 1000+whp on 1" - 2" spacers.

And, it's only a 11ish minute race - I'll have plenty of time between practice runs to check over everything and make sure there aren't any bearing issues. I don't imagine that there will be any issues, though.

[jimmyloose]

Well that answers that question hah.

[DieselGhost]

subbed...

[IDBracing]

So I decided that I wanted to run a hood vent from a GT500, and picked one up from some Mustang parts site for around $100 or so. Turns out it's a bit too wide, so it's going to need to be refabricated a bit...









Whoops, sawzall got away from me a bit...no worries, I've got a file



I use an epoxy called 'Plastic Welder' by VersaChem on all my plastic repairs and glue-ings, I've used this stuff for years and I love it. It's great on older cars that are getting restorations that have cracked trim or trim that's missing chunks where the plastic has disentigrated...just have to let this stuff sit up for a bit and it'll somewhat melt the plastic together; then sand, primer, and paint, and you can never tell! I doubt I'll be doing this particular piece to 100% show-quality smooth (because racecar), but the untrained eye won't be able to tell even up close when I'm done



Now just gotta let this guy sit overnight, then sand/fill/finish tomorrow!

Meanwhile, John has spent the last few hours cutting, fitting, and welding in reinforcements for the rear subframe. Once these are all boxed in, we'll be going back over and seam-welding the whole thing. We aren't doing any reinforcements for the rear sway bar mounts, since we aren't running a rear sway bar. The rear lower control arms should be finished being welded and boxed in this afternoon as well.







I'll post finished photos once we're done with all the welding.


UPS also showed up with the first set of wheels as I was posting this...they're knockoff BBS LM wheels, but they're GREAT quality - and they weigh about a pound less each than the 'real' LM's (21lbs each). 18x9, et35, and we'll be running 275/35's on all four corners. Would I rather run real BBS wheels? Sure, but given the price, and that I'm confident in the build quality of these wheels, plus the fact that there's a REALLY good chance that I'm gonna tear some wheels up during the hillclimb...yeah, I'll be bueno with these



- - - Updated - - -

Got the rear subframe all welded up, we boxed in the two mounting ears and then seam welded the rest of the subframe. Also finished up the rear lower control arms, we ran out of metal scrap that we were using to fill everything in and on top of that the welder started running low on gas towards the end, so forgive the bubblegum boo boo welds. I hit the freshly sanded/welded spots with some primer since we'll be going back over and sandblasting and/or powerwashing the entire underside of the car prior to the final reassembly once the cage is finished, so this is just a temporary coat. I also want to make sure everything bolts up, lines up, fits right, and works properly with everything being welded up - so in case I have to go back and make any additional modifications or adjustments I won't have to ruin a fresh 'good' finish.

Also fudged up a bit earlier in the build - I didn't think ahead and pressed the rear trailing arm bearings out before we got ready to weld, and I was concerned about the spot for the bearing warping under heat while welding, so I went ahead and pressed the new Turner bearings in - they seem fine, but I'm most likely going to go ahead and get another set and press them in just to make sure they're A-OK.






















Heck yes. I'm super excited, I never imagined the car would be this far along by now. Heck, I didn't think I was going to be able to have suspension or bodywork before March...another shout out to a few of my sponsors - Sarto Racing and Ground Control - for coming through and making stuff happen!! Now that I've got everything here for the suspension, bodywork, and undercar, we'll be spending the day tomorrow getting all the suspension and brakes bolted up and the bodywork final-fitted; from there the bodywork will go off to the paint shop and the car will go to the fab shop to have the cage put in...and then we'll tear it all back down, finish seam welding the chassis, paint the inside and underside of the chassis, and then put her back together!


Woot!!!

[IDBracing]

Got her all bolted together today!

Keep in mind, she's not clean yet - we've yet to tear it completely back down, strip the bottom, finish seam welding, and paint the chassis. This is just an initial test-fitting, if you will!






























We've still got to put her on the scales and adjust the suspension and set the alignment, so none of the suspension bolts are more than finger tight. Plenty enough to roll her outside and give her some air!

Now if only the damn cage would show up!

[DieselGhost]

am i wrong to assume your rotors are on backwards ?

[IDBracing]

They're marked L and R, so I'm fairly certain they're on correctly...anything is possible though :hmm:

[DieselGhost]

I guess mine were mounted backwards by the PO... as mine have L and R markings aswell sorry bro...

[longms]

Great work so far. I can't wait to see this thing in action on the Peak.

[memert]

Lookin good Wil

[jfrankE21]

Nice progress. On the GC tie rod ends, you probably want to get a bump steer gauge to set them up perfect, but with that ride height you will probably have the spacers between the knuckle and bearing instead of below it. I'm glad other people are using the Ford hood vent idea.

[samuraidan]

This thread is awesome. Sometimes I wonder whether I should be learning how to do this stuff myself instead of being in college... I want racecar

[IDBracing]

Nice progress. On the GC tie rod ends, you probably want to get a bump steer gauge to set them up perfect, but with that ride height you will probably have the spacers between the knuckle and bearing instead of below it. I'm glad other people are using the Ford hood vent idea.

There's actually a shop right next to mine that I'm pretty good friends with that has an alignment rack, nice digital scales, and all sorts of fancy-dancy race car alignin' stuff - tires should be here tomorrow, then once those are mounted I'll be able to get everything clearanced, and from there it's going to them to get a proper alignment done on the first shot!

[Trunkless M]

Just a bit on the revshift aluminum guibo: We put them in two E36s, one car sadly had an incident before it could have much track time so I cant say anything about it, but the other (a street car) had a catastrophic driveshaft failure within 6 months. Standard E36 M3 4-bolt driveshafts in both cars (age unknown) and just S52 with basic bolt-ons in terms power. It could have been that the one car just had an ancient driveshaft, but after such a dramatic failure, we've decided to steer clear of them. Driving the track car with the Revshift (before it found a wall) didn't really change much in terms of feel over a fresh guibo so the risk/reward ratio is pretty high in our opinion. Not conclusive by any means, just a cautionary tale, and one based on real experience, rather than internet banter.

[IDBracing]

Just a bit on the revshift aluminum guibo: We put them in two E36s, one car sadly had an incident before it could have much track time so I cant say anything about it, but the other (a street car) had a catastrophic driveshaft failure within 6 months. Standard E36 M3 4-bolt driveshafts in both cars (age unknown) and just S52 with basic bolt-ons in terms power. It could have been that the one car just had an ancient driveshaft, but after such a dramatic failure, we've decided to steer clear of them. Driving the track car with the Revshift (before it found a wall) didn't really change much in terms of feel over a fresh guibo so the risk/reward ratio is pretty high in our opinion. Not conclusive by any means, just a cautionary tale, and one based on real experience, rather than internet banter.

This is definitely the kinda info I love to get, thanks so much! I don't know that I've ever seen a driveshaft actually fail on an E36 or 46 before, other than the center support and the guibo....definitely thinking more and more that I'm going to just leave the stock one on...

[Trunkless M]

Happy to help man! Good luck with the build!

[IDBracing]

Got the suspension finished up, and took her to our friendly neighbors at Houston Z to get a 'preliminary' alignment done. Granted things are going to change a good bit, and we'll be putting it on the scales and doing another 'real' alignment once we have the cage in and the car all together; this is just so we can roll it around while we get the cage in and the chassis finished over the next week




















Tomorrow, we start on the cage!

[jakermac]

Could be wrong, but I think you're gonna want a whole bunch more front camber than that. I do realize that It's just a prelim alignment. My car is set up for autocross, but with 275/35-17 A6s on 17x10.5" wheels, I'm running 4 degrees.

What size tire are you running again?

[IDBracing]

Could be wrong, but I think you're gonna want a whole bunch more front camber than that. I do realize that It's just a prelim alignment. My car is set up for autocross, but with 275/35-17 A6s on 17x10.5" wheels, I'm running 4 degrees.

What size tire are you running again?

These are 275/35-18's. We do need a ton more camber, but the camber is maxed out where it's at (-2.2 and -2.5). I've got to get a lower-profile bolt for the front upper strut, and notch out the upper strut tower (which will be fine, because it's getting boxed in/reinforced/tied into the cage).

[jakermac]

I guess I don't understand. I have the GC race front camber/caster plates, and with no spacers at the strut/knuckle interface, I have 4 degrees negative, though the pointer on the plates shows around 2 degrees.

[turbosporttsi]

I guess I don't understand. I have the GC race front camber/caster plates, and with no spacers at the strut/knuckle interface, I have 4 degrees negative, though the pointer on the plates shows around 2 degrees.

He is roll center corrected. It will take a significant ride height drop to bring the LCAs anywhere near parallel, giving the kind of camber increase you are used to with stock geometry.

The upside is, he can run softer in the front than you can and gain camber in compression. No need to run huge static camber.

[jakermac]

He is roll center corrected.

So am I.

[Trunkless M]

I had pretty good luck with these on my E36 race car. http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36-fro...-kit-p610.aspx

I was running GC stuff, the kits aren't bad, but their camber plates don't give the best range of travel without mods. I suggest the Vorschlag plates if those shims don't do the job. I've got a set of the shims in the garage, if any of your folks are in Dallas sometime, you're welcome to them.

[turbosporttsi]

So am I.

Wow. I can't even get -4* with stock geometry. Lucky!