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Thread: E39 540i Touring Manual Conversion Checklist & Wiring / Coding

  1. #76
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    Hmm, guess the DME does disable that output with the manual code then. I wonder if it would be a matter of just flipping the auto start byte to "1" to get it to work again. Oh well, all things I can play with if I ever get a 540i lol.

    The M5 having the start relay does suggest it may have been a very last minute change to not have automatic start on those. I wonder if there's code for it hidden away somewhere. If so, I bet I can retrofit it to the M3 too (though having auto start + no clutch interlock is probably a disaster waiting to happen)

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    Hmm, guess the DME does disable that output with the manual code then. I wonder if it would be a matter of just flipping the auto start byte to "1" to get it to work again. Oh well, all things I can play with if I ever get a 540i lol.

    The M5 having the start relay does suggest it may have been a very last minute change to not have automatic start on those. I wonder if there's code for it hidden away somewhere. If so, I bet I can retrofit it to the M3 too (though having auto start + no clutch interlock is probably a disaster waiting to happen)
    If anyone can find that hidden code, it's you dude

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteghost1 View Post
    The mechanics is really the simple part of this conversion for me. The unsettling part is I am not familiar with the coding aspect of the job, which is the thing holding me back.

    If I find someone who is knowledgeable enough to do the coding for me, would they:

    a) need the car in their presence? or
    b) would you be able to do it somehow remotely? or
    c) would I be able to send them my DME?

    Trying to research options as no one I know locally, would be able to do the coding for me first hand.
    Thanks for the great writeup.
    For what its worth Alex did my coding on my swap took about 1/2 hour, he goes by NEXGEN around here I think

  4. #79
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    Terra - adding to the hypothesis that the M5's might have been headed toward auto-start at some point - another factor might be the M5's Getrags have gear / neutral indicator sensors, while the 540 doesnt, so from a safety point of view you could confirm neutral, whereas on the 540 you cant. Would make sense it might have been in discussion for M5 but not 540.

    I would say retrofitting auto start on a 540 manual for this reason was pretty unwise if not outright dangerous. If you are using an M5 gearbox (or retrofit the sensor ) then you could get clever and use it in line w the relay circuit grounding as a failsafe. No neutral, no auto-start. But for a stock 540 i would strongly advise against it - too much chance somebody bumps the key in gear or even tries to start w/o the clutch in, and instead of just jumping and stalling as it would now, the car starts itself and goes who knows where...

    And confirm no - you get nothing if you just reflash the DME to manual.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Terra - adding to the hypothesis that the M5's might have been headed toward auto-start at some point - another factor might be the M5's Getrags have gear / neutral indicator sensors, while the 540 doesnt, so from a safety point of view you could confirm neutral, whereas on the 540 you cant. Would make sense it might have been in discussion for M5 but not 540.
    Looks like you're right. I found some code that looks like it has something to do with auto start, and it does check the neutral status (which would be detected if either gear lever is in N or clutch is depressed). It's also hard coded to not work if the motor type is set to S54. Now I gotta figure out if the code is actually functional, and if so, what BMW did to make it not work on the M5s either

    Anyway, sorry for taking this off topic, just got curious about the auto start since I've always wanted that feature even though it's relatively useless

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    Looks like you're right. I found some code that looks like it has something to do with auto start, and it does check the neutral status (which would be detected if either gear lever is in N or clutch is depressed). It's also hard coded to not work if the motor type is set to S54. Now I gotta figure out if the code is actually functional, and if so, what BMW did to make it not work on the M5s either

    Anyway, sorry for taking this off topic, just got curious about the auto start since I've always wanted that feature even though it's relatively useless
    N worries, it's my damn thread and this is cool stuff and nominally related to the discussion of auto-start in the conversion which frankly is not really very well covered on the forums!

    Yeah given the M MSS5x codebase thing - AND the shared 420G - makes total sense that the S54 code would have it too! You could totally enable autostart on the E46M3's given they have the clutch/neutral sensor! Well by 'totally' I mean 'safely'. The big question is if the whole block of trigger-starter-wait-for-engine-run-confirm-shutoff-starter code is there - the 540 Auto is pretty smart about knowing how long to run the starter to not overrun or underrun. Never saw it half-start in the auto-start, and never heard it overrun.

    And yeah, IIRC the clutch switch and gear sensor are wired in series so it appears as one input to the DME, right? Basically it's a "clutch in OR neutral but don't know which" input. That is proven retrofittable to the 540 version fo the 420G so possible to wire it back, but a ton of effort for such a little feature unless you have the tranny on the bench already for a swap or whatever. That said, I did always like the feature once I got used to it. It's funny - back when I still had the auto in the 540 I would get in the M3 and blip the starter only to have it not start and remember "Oh. Right. Car doesn't auto-start. Gotta hold it over for a second..." It's a fun little feature. Somebody rigged up a custom push-button start based on that - thread is floating around someplace...

    Neato mosquito.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    The only thing I would change is in the first line. The ignition switch sends the 12v to the DME on pin 6, not pin 8. You had it right at the bottom though.
    Good catch - I meant pin 8 of ig switch, which is correct, but my wording is poor so it reads wrong. Thanks for the catch P.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    N worries, it's my damn thread and this is cool stuff and nominally related to the discussion of auto-start in the conversion which frankly is not really very well covered on the forums!

    Yeah given the M MSS5x codebase thing - AND the shared 420G - makes total sense that the S54 code would have it too! You could totally enable autostart on the E46M3's given they have the clutch/neutral sensor! Well by 'totally' I mean 'safely'. The big question is if the whole block of trigger-starter-wait-for-engine-run-confirm-shutoff-starter code is there - the 540 Auto is pretty smart about knowing how long to run the starter to not overrun or underrun. Never saw it half-start in the auto-start, and never heard it overrun.

    And yeah, IIRC the clutch switch and gear sensor are wired in series so it appears as one input to the DME, right? Basically it's a "clutch in OR neutral but don't know which" input. That is proven retrofittable to the 540 version fo the 420G so possible to wire it back, but a ton of effort for such a little feature unless you have the tranny on the bench already for a swap or whatever. That said, I did always like the feature once I got used to it. It's funny - back when I still had the auto in the 540 I would get in the M3 and blip the starter only to have it not start and remember "Oh. Right. Car doesn't auto-start. Gotta hold it over for a second..." It's a fun little feature. Somebody rigged up a custom push-button start based on that - thread is floating around someplace...

    Neato mosquito.
    Well I might play around with it once I've got some other projects done on my M3. It wouldn't be that hard to wire cleanly for this car since the DME and EWS are both on the driver side. Add a relay mount to the ebox where one of the SMG relays would go, tap one of the large grounds and +12v sources, move ignition trigger from EWS to X60004/Pin 6, Wire X60004/Pin 40 to the relay trigger, and then wire relay output back to EWS start trigger. Then would have to force the routine to continue even if the motor byte is not set to "S62"

    As far as the DME figuring out when to stop the starter, there is a curve that defines the "start end" RPM based on current engine temperature, which is loaded in the routine I'm looking at

    Question is whether or not this is actually an auto-start routine, or if BMW just went through all this trouble to allow the M5s to start based on the clutch/neutral switch rather than the clutch switch alone like on the M3.

    I might make a thread over at m3forum (and maybe even m5board) to see what everyone else thinks

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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Apologies for the weird formatting. I kept notes in OneNote the entire project and it just won't paste nicely into Vbulletin without doing a bunch of weird stuff to the linebreaks and I can't spend another hour futzing around deleting extra line spaces. See the attached PDF for a nice clean version. - - - Updated - - - Thanks! I kept tellin' y'all I had the documentation in hand... Hopefully Michael will be psyched since he kept asking for this... Dude how did you read it so fast!? I clicked POST and 3 seconds later your reply notification came through.
    I skimmed through and was thoroughly impressed

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    I might make a thread over at m3forum
    Cool I'll look for it there. Not really too interested myself but interested in the development effort and just more 'figuring stuff out' on the platform...
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  10. #85
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    The proper BMW part number for the 35mm rubber plug that fills the automatic shift selector cable hole is 07147140849 and I bought mine here:

    http://www.ecstuning.com/ES16925/

    Here's a pic of it installed:

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  11. #86
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    Nice add brian. We couldn't find that part number - I know you mentioned it before but I didn't note the details - I'll add it to the write up.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    JC,

    I don't know if Brian told what we ended up doing to make his start up, but we deviated from your method a bit and it doesn't require larger wire or anything. We use existing wire for the most part and it still uses the relay, but takes the DME out of the process (removing the soft-start feature). What we did was take the pin 6 and pin 40 from the DME (pin 6 coming from the ignition switch to the DME and pin 40 going from the DME to the starter relay) and soldered them together. Then we took the blue with black stripe wire at pin 8 of the EWS and cut it near the EWS connector and tapped it to a ground connection. What used to happen in the auto was the DME provided a ground on pin 40 during the soft-start mode and the EWS would provide 12V over pin 8. What we did was basically reverse the trigger on the relay so now the ignition switch itself provides the power and the wire that used to go to the EWS now goes to ground.

    It looks like this:



    This is borrowed from Trevor's (007008) excellent 99+ e38 6-speed guide found here:

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ed-swap-coding
    I didn't know I was drug into this. I took ques from CDH (Craig) but since his car is prefacefilt a few things changed. I like Paul's point of just connecting the 2 DME wires together and grounding the other side of the relay. It's one of those Duh! items.
    Having those 2 L2 wires freed up means you have the clutch switch and the reverse light signal running through existing wires.
    And just my .02 you're added a relay into the system since its already in use. The one benefit is that you are not running the higher current load through the ignition switch. On the E38 not only would you need to run the heavier wire, but you also have to change the iggy and the plug for it.
    Whichever both work.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007008 View Post
    Whichever both work.
    Exactly how I went through it... "what the... oh... Duh, yeah.. that's clever..."

    Yeah less current through ig switch can't be a bad thing, though all the other manuals do it so its "fine" too... I guess the Autos run via the relay all the time anyway... so what the hell... no more failure points than an Auto already has... and it's a generic BMW "Green Relay" so toss an extra in the car if yer worried about it - can always be a spare FP relay too....

    Like you say - "both are fine" which is why I left it in the writeup that way...
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  14. #89
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    Putting things back together I was going to ask tons of questions in my swap thread if I didn't see this post.
    It's a 2000 740i that I've been working on, finally started it but I wasn't sure what cables should I leave and which ones should I cut.
    After reading all this, I feel pretty confident of what to do next time I get by my car.
    Thanks for all the info.

  15. #90
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    Yeah for the E38 be sure you check all paul & trevor aka blacknight530i & 00708's threads - those guys are the platform experts there...
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  16. #91
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    I'm trying to find the part numbers for the pins I need to get for the connectors.
    I'm tempted to just buy a pack of every one they have listed for the vehicle so I don't miss one lol.

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    Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. Will definitely be a future source of info as I am currently looking to pick up an '01-'03 540iT. I have to buy an auto to appease the wifey for now, but plan to do a 6-speed swap eventually...
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  18. #93
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    Here is what I have done. I have a US 530i with a build date of 2001:
    Flashed my new zcs to EWS and DSC with ncs
    Recoded my dme with the latest manual zusb with winfkp
    Changed the park/neutral to nicht_activ in my ews to bypass the clutch switch.

    All you have to do is:
    change your job to CODIERDATEN_LESEN, read ews,
    open your fsw_psw.trc in notepad
    change
    park/neutral
    From:
    activ
    To:
    nicht_activ

    then copy whats in fsw_psw.trc to fsw_psw.man
    and then SG_CODIEREN




    I haven't done any wiring other than unpluging the auto trans computer. I don't have a clutch switch plugged in.



    Thank you so much geargrinder for your write up, and everyone else for posting info. there is no way I would have gotten this far without ya'll.

    If you're thinking about doing this: DO IT

    Last edited by Stupid Kid; 09-04-2015 at 10:26 PM.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by StRaNgEdAyS View Post
    I'm trying to find the part numbers for the pins I need to get for the connectors.
    I'm tempted to just buy a pack of every one they have listed for the vehicle so I don't miss one lol.
    Has anyone identified which contact systems are used where for these plugs (X33, X1659, X60002, X60004)?

    Edit: I also didn't see Terra's post mentioned about another way to code a 540iT manual:

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...4#post28444404
    Last edited by blarf; 10-01-2015 at 07:25 PM.

  20. #95
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    I reused the pins I removed by stripping and tinning the tail and soldering the new wire to it and covering with heatshrink. It's pretty straight forward operation.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    JC,

    This is borrowed from Trevor's (007008) excellent 99+ e38 6-speed guide found here:

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ed-swap-coding
    I've actually been following this thread for a while now for my own swap which is now nearly complete and went very smoothly.. I have done everything short of the starter relay wiring, including all programming (I even have a few ncsexpert tips to add if geargrinder would be so kind - made it really easy), however now I'm at an impass and just stumbled over this reply. The issue I'm facing is that nearly everything I can fine references ews connector x1659, the 13 pin connector for the driver side ews module - however I have a 01/1997 540 and have the older 15 pin harness and EWS module. Furthermore I cannot seem to find any java module which will allow me to load WDS diagrams.

    My question is this, and it's to either yourself or geargrinder. What is the EWS pinout on the old style connector and how do they match up to the x1659 connector? ie x1659 pin 8 == pin ? on the 15 pin connector?

    I'm so close, and reading this one post gave that I'm a short ground and a quick dme wiring splice away from completion and first start.

    Any help or advice, diagrams etc. you might have pertaining to the older style would be most useful. Pretty much everything else (except pedals) applies directly.

    Big thank you to geargrinder for this most impressive write-up. It's carried me 95% of the way.
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  22. #97
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    Sounds good man - can't really tell you much about the old EWS, but here's a tip - load the Opera browser on your PC - it will let you load the Java to run the WDS from BMW-Planet properly.

    It's cool we've gotten 3-4 conversions going since mine, thanks too to blacknight530i/Redshift/007008 for all their inputs to make stuff better... glad this has been good for people.
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  23. #98
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    I'll try to write up stuff I found that either differs for pre-facelift, or things I did differently that worked out well. I did find ncsexpert a little confusing at first but now I've got that tool pretty well mapped out, as well as winkfp. In fact I did 100% of programming ncsexpert and dme flash with winkfp and required nothing else so that was very slick.

    Will load up opera today, I'm gonna try the ews ground and dme splice to keep wiring changes to a minimum. I don't mind an "extra" relay in the mix.

    Thanks again for the tip on opera, didn't even think of that.

    I can reprogram a German eeprom but need help finding a working java version - aint that a kick in the nuts.
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  24. #99
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    I did work out what was required for the older ones.
    I'll have to dig through my old notes to find it.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by StRaNgEdAyS View Post
    I did work out what was required for the older ones.
    I'll have to dig through my old notes to find it.
    My issue now is that I can't get wds to load (ancient java) but if I have diagrams and pinout locations this should be a 2 wire job.. 1 splice to bypass dme, and one to give the ews a constant ground. Just gotta figure out which 3 wires I'm playing with.

    If you have that, I would gladly send some surly your way straight from the brewery...
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