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Thread: Clutch Issues - not fully disengaging

  1. #1
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    Clutch Issues - not fully disengaging

    Quick notes on my setup:
    F1 racing chromoly flywheel
    Sachs unsprung clutch
    Sachs PP
    Sachs TOB (comes with this kit)
    Bear motorsport SSK
    AKG selector rod
    AKG shifter pieces refresh
    UUC red trans mounts
    SS clutch line

    All of this was installed at the same time back in March. Since I've put about 13k on the setup and it's pretty much always behaved the same. After the swap, shifting effort increased considerably, I was expecting some more notchiness, but certainly not such a large increase in effort.

    The car doesn't like to go into 1st gear if you've only just engaged the clutch - keep it on the floor and it goes in and out of each gear fine, release and push it back down and you'll have trouble getting in gear again. Pushing into 1st gear will also typically make the car roll forward a little bit.

    When rev matching while braking (to a stop light because racecar) it gives resistance when I try to pull it out of 2nd. So for example - rev match 4th to 3rd, no problem, same for 3rd to 2nd, but when I try to pull out of 2nd it gives resistance and wants to hold the gear. This can be alleviated if I rev just a bit, but if I just clutch in and try to put it in neutral, it isn't perfectly smooth.

    Recently I started getting a grind on fast shifts from 2-3. I have to be very deliberate when shifting to 3rd near redline in 2nd, and even then it grinds sometimes.

    The really odd part about this is that occasionally it seems like it has to do with whatever position the parts are in in that moment. Hard to explain, but occasionally a high rpm shift to 3rd is smooth as can be, or it will slide right into 1st no problem regardless of what I do with the pedal. Other times I've had it grind when slowly putting into 1st or 2nd, with the clutch on the floor, while rolling at a low speed (like rolling to a red light that just turned green). This will happen before the shifter is fully through the gate - like halfway in the gear and feels through the shifter like something hitting as it rotates.

    After discussing with a mechanic and having them drive it a bit, we're guessing it's the clutch not fully disengaging. I've read that replacing the slave with the 325 slave is common when upgrading clutches, but will that give me more travel? If not, short of dropping the trans is there anything I can do that will give the clutch more travel? Any thoughts on any other possible culprits in this? I know the TOB that comes with this kit is of supposed dubious quality, but it's also supposedly a Sachs so...

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  2. #2
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    I don't know about such a setup, but I have read that replacing the old shift detents and springs can alleviate similar symptoms. Did you do the detents while it was out?
    My M3 is 1 of 2

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by EE05063 View Post
    I don't know about such a setup, but I have read that replacing the old shift detents and springs can alleviate similar symptoms. Did you do the detents while it was out?
    Unfortunately not, I was on limited time - needed the car back that day, and it's not something I had even thought about at the time. The trans wasn't and still isn't exhibiting any of the other issues typically associated with the detents.
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  4. #4
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    This issue has nothing to do with the shift detents.

    There could be a hydraulic issue (damaged or leaky slave cylinder) or a mechanical issue, such as a shift fork problem (broken spring), a falling TOB, or even a bent clutch component (happened to me with a stock Sachs clutch kit).
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  5. #5
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    I have a similar issue at times. How does your pedal feel? Does it engage much lower than it should?

  6. #6
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    I'm thinking slave too. I could just be on its last leg. Do you have a clutch stop? If so take it out and try shifting. If it's still binding it could be the tob

  7. #7
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    Don't forget basic logic here guys.....this all started when he replaced all those parts.....including a SS clutch line. 13k on a Sachs TOB is nothing. A TOB is not likely to exhibit any symptoms like OP has. Start with the obvious stuff and the easy stuff. If this started from the moment you installed all those parts then bleed your slave again. Get someone to sit in the car and pump the pedal while you work the bleed screw. The lave is very easy to access. Bleeding should only take 20-30 minutes from wheels up to wheels down.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHbmw325I View Post
    I have a similar issue at times. How does your pedal feel? Does it engage much lower than it should?
    Pedal feel didn't noticeably in terms of weight and where it engages. It's always grabbed at a kind of awkward spot - right in the middle of the pedal travel from the floor to the top. Sometimes while in stop and go traffic it feels like the engagement point shifts closer to the floor, but I think that's a part of this whole issue of the clutch not disengaging, like the heat generated from not moving makes it stick even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bimjam96 View Post
    I'm thinking slave too. I could just be on its last leg. Do you have a clutch stop? If so take it out and try shifting. If it's still binding it could be the tob
    I do, and it's screwed all the way to the floor. I even took the nut out from the back to get it closer to the firewall. I have driven without it and there is no difference. At this point it's there more because I tossed the plastic piece than anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    Don't forget basic logic here guys.....this all started when he replaced all those parts.....including a SS clutch line. 13k on a Sachs TOB is nothing. A TOB is not likely to exhibit any symptoms like OP has. Start with the obvious stuff and the easy stuff. If this started from the moment you installed all those parts then bleed your slave again. Get someone to sit in the car and pump the pedal while you work the bleed screw. The lave is very easy to access. Bleeding should only take 20-30 minutes from wheels up to wheels down.
    I'm thinking it's the slave also, and really should've tried bleeding it again already. At this point though I'm extremely limited in time and space to work on the car - I'll be renting a lift for this one. That's why I figured I'd swap out the slave now if the 325 slave does indeed allow more travel.
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  9. #9
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    I've used 318, 325, 328, and m3 slaves from years spanning 92-98. There is no difference. I even bought a brand new one. Same thing

  10. #10
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    The piston diameter is different than the M3. UUC even lists them as being needed for their clutch setups. If his slave is replaced, and bled properly, there is nothing else to do other than drop the trans to see if the plastic pivot is smashed, or the fork is damaged. Id get a new slave, bench bleed id, then install, and rebleed. Pump it and bleed it from under the car.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by graphite9 View Post
    The piston diameter is different than the M3. UUC even lists them as being needed for their clutch setups. If his slave is replaced, and bled properly, there is nothing else to do other than drop the trans to see if the plastic pivot is smashed, or the fork is damaged. Id get a new slave, bench bleed id, then install, and rebleed. Pump it and bleed it from under the car.
    Correct, it's a smaller diameter. People use it to maintain a heavier feel, I just wasn't sure if it also allowed more travel or not. Since my pedal is already reasonably heavy, and you guys are confirming there's no difference in travel I'll just go with a new M3 slave so I don't increase the pedal weight. I'm hoping this takes care of my issue and I don't have to drop the trans.
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  12. #12
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    Bump an old thread. OP did you ever find out what your issue was. I am having a similar problem.

  13. #13
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    Was the plastic pivot for the TOB arm replaced? This is a major source of paranoia for me being that I've had a couple crack and/or break. It's a bitch to do all that work for a $.98 part.
    I've replaced these the the silicon bronze units but they squeak after a while regardless of the so-claimed self-lubricating qualities. Drill a 1/16" or 1.5-2mm hole through the thing and tap the back end for a grease fitting and your set.
    Last edited by tjm3; 09-16-2018 at 01:38 PM.
    See ya later,

    tony
    '98 M3, '92 Dinan3, '05 R1100S BCR, '07 R1200S, Aprilia T

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW325issport View Post
    Bump an old thread. OP did you ever find out what your issue was. I am having a similar problem.
    I'd venture that his "what-I'm-gonna-do" solved the problem, or he'd have been back.

    When I replaced my clutch a couple years ago, it failed engaged.

    After replacing everything (including a stainless braided line I'd had sitting for years), I couldn't get the new parts to work. I bled the slave a second time and it still wouldn't work - exact same problem you're having.

    I looked and looked for some kind of solution, and couldn't find anything. As a last ditch effort before removing everything again, I bled the slave one last time.

    And that was it. It worked.

    I'd be pretty exhaustive about bleeding the slave (including buying a pressure bleeder) before dropping the tranny again.

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  15. #15
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    E36 clutch hydraulics are notoriously awkward to bleed properly. Buy a pressure bleeder (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Produc.../dp/B0002KM5L0) that keeps your brake fluid reservoir filled and pressurized, and then pump the snot out of the clutch pedal. You'll be amazed at the number of leg presses you'll have to do, but you will get there. Eventually.

    Neil

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