Upgrades needed when making 500,600, and 700+ whp/wtq

[chikinhed]

So your using the aluminum bushing ?

I drilled the inner bushing of the poly mount as well.

Sent from my GTX3582R

[nleksan]

I am running a modified TS3 setup on my E46 328Ci (M52tuB28), with the Lysholm TS blower pushing 15.8psi on 93oct.
Along with supporting mods, and the engine build, it's good for 419rwhp/388rwtq so while it's mmaking less horsepower than what you're asking about, it's also making 90pct+ peak torque over the vast majority of the Rev range (redline @ 7800).
I went way overboard and had the entire motor "built", top to bottom, instead ofggoing with the ESS Pistons/etc. Flow benched, ported/extrude-honed head, Carillo rods, CP pistons @ 10.2:1, blueprinted everything, custom made to spec cams (billet grinds), the full complement of ARP fasteners, dry sump conversion, 6MT swap with 3.15:1 OS Giken LSD, crammed the M3-spec C&R rad in front with a front mounted heat exchanger for the blower, M3 axles (a bit stronger, but mostly because of the vastly greater selection of brake kits), rolled and pulled fenders (clears 19x9.5f & 10.5r with less than neg 2.8deg camber), and so on and so forth.

Personally, I never build up a motor until I am completely confident that the chassis, suspension, drivetrain, and brakes are more than up to the task.

The number one "big" mod outside of the engine that I consider mandatory for anything making good power is an upgraded brake system. This could be something as inexpensive as a 330i conversion with BMW Perf rotors to the retrofitted BMW Performance 6-Piston calipers and 2pc rotor setup all the way to a StopTech Trophy or PFC 4whl kit.
Bang for the buck, I would recommend Wilwood Superlight calipers and 2pc slotted rotors, and you can get 6P/4P kits for quite a lot less than the "super premium" brands (I have gone through quite a few BBK's, finally happy with the PFC kit I've got).
Of course, brakes are useless without tractio, wwhich is why I had my buddy (owns a custom body shop) flare out my fenders, because the difference between 255's front/275's rear vs 235's/255's is quite significant when you have >365mm floating discs clamped by 6-Piston/4-Piston monoblock calipers. Of course, throw all season tires on and you defeat the purpose, so get used to having a large tire budget, and likely a few sets of wheels (I have 19" TE37SL's for street, 18x9.5/10.5 J-Lines made custom to fit over the BBK for the track @ 17.2-17.8lb/ea, and a few other sets that I've collected over the years).
If it's not at least a UHP Summer, think PSS, then you are likely way under tired. PSC's for mostly track but Street capable are as close to a perfect compromise you can get (I don't want to have to pull over the second it starts to look like it might slightly rain). Then, some real RC's for srs bsns.

Of course, that assumes your suspension is fully updated/upgraded to support the power. I recommend weld-in reinforcement panels for the subframes on any Bimmer making FI power, and swapping to an M subframe is a little bit more insurance.

One of the biggest differences, for the better, in how the car feels came from the Semi-Solid, Delrin, Aluminum, and Poly bushings and mounts, with quite literally every single one replaced (dropped the entire suspension and replaced anything that could wear, quite a few non-wear items (Adj RCA's, Sways, etc), and had any bare parts powder coated to keep them from being exposed to the elements too much.
The difference between stock, or even aftermarket soft, engine/tranny/diff mounts (and subframe) vs a mix of semi-solid bits and high durometer pieces is huge, and even with the less padded than stock seats (Recaro Sportster CS/PP) it's not bad in terms of NVH. Everything is just so much "tighter", and the response to input is instantaneous.

[bladerealm124]

,,, z

[bladerealm124]

Butt dialed a post previously*

Great info, build and numbers

Curious to see a dyno sheet if you have one available. Also interesting that you like the delrin/poly bushings and don't think they increase NVH too much. From what I've read recently it seems the majority of people prefer stock after trying both besides for a handful of pieces.(even after using the softest available) But I suppose it's a matter of personal preference and everyones tolerance of NVH differs. Thanks for the info though

[nleksan]

Don't have anything recent, last one was a before and after for the 20k mile post-build teardown and inspection. Incidentally, the reason I am so pro-Redline lubricants is a result of the teardown, with my friend (a retired BMW Master Mechanic running his own indy shop now) who helped with the build telling me that he's never seen a motor with such lack of wear much less one that sees as much track time as Street. Not a mark on a single cam lobe, the valves looked like new, the pistons and cylinder walls looked like they didn't have even 2k miles on them, and while I am confident that having had SwainTech do their "full package" engine coatings (internal and external) played a big role, I can't ignore the fact that the oil simply performed even better than my many prior positive experiences would have led me to believe. I mean, no visible wear after 20k on a motor running that high if compression with over one atmosphere boost? Incredible.

I am going by memory here (and the shop I did all the original runs, including tuning runs, on their dyno switched from a DynoJet to a Mustang dyno so any new runs would be useless for me outside of diagnostics), but after everything wasbroken in it was pputting down 412rwhp/378rwtq on the final 93 tune, and then @20k it was at 421rwhp/386rwtq running the same exact everything (obviously fresher gas, and oil changed on avg every 3.3k miles due to events).

Would I love to do it again? Yes. Was it cost effective? Not by any stretch of the meaning!
So, of course, I am now trying to see how far I can push this S54 remaining N/A, lol.

I need therapy!

[Bahaa425]

What are you all doing as far as tire size and company? I imagine there isn't much grip to be had

[Butters Stoch]

What are you all doing as far as tire size and company? I imagine there isn't much grip to be had

That's a great piece of the puzzle that needs to be added to the list.
Not only tire size but compound.

[GG///M3]

That's a great piece of the puzzle that needs to be added to the list.
Not only tire size but compound.

I could give you a set of tires from my skateboard. Massive traction

[djborya]

I could give you a set of tires from my skateboard. Massive traction

I need massive traction. Can you supply them to me as well?
B.

[Butters Stoch]

I need massive traction. Can you supply them to me as well?
B.

That would be one he'll of a battle.
GG///M3 VS djborya

Biblical is the word that comes yo mind.

[djborya]

That would be one he'll of a battle.
GG///M3 VS djborya

Biblical is the word that comes yo mind.

It would be No different then any other Friday night at the track. As long as my car makes it in one piece to the starting line and you are in the other lane ( no matter who it is) they are going to get a battle to the end of that 1/4 mile we are both faced with. First to finish wins the bragging rights and $. I love a good challenge and am not afraid of losing.
B.

[GG///M3]

I need massive traction. Can you supply them to me as well? B.

I'm awaiting the Plutoians to ship me a few more sets of them.

[BimmerBoy]

What are you all doing as far as tire size and company? I imagine there isn't much grip to be had

It really comes down to what its use will be. Tire size and compound are like brake pads, there isnt really a one that will be great at everything.


I personally find that the Toyo T1-R and T1-S (255/35/18) are a great street tire for the price, others may disagree but I like them. Between the 2. I like the T1-S more than the T1-R.

With these tires I have experienced them on the drag strip, autocross, and HPDE road course.

For AutoX - this size tire even at lowboost....... not so great on tarmac, really easy to lose grip and spin/slide.

For Drag Strip - On A prepped track, not the greatest tire to drag, but still fun, but you wont get the best times on these tires

Road Course (HPDE) - These tires did great on low boost on the road course. Nothing like an RComp tire, but it went through quite a few heat cycles and for a street tire and it did great. There are other tires that will do better for a few laps, but after they hot, they start to get greasy really quick. The toyos were quite consistent even after a 2 day HPDE. The car was put in the fastest run group and even the race car instructors really liked how the tires held up for a street tire.

With that said, if I were to buy street tires now, I would go Michelin Super Sports. They tend to do great on the street, both wet and dry, and hold up quite well on HPDEs.

Well, just trying to help.

[Bahaa425]

It really comes down to what its use will be. Tire size and compound are like brake pads, there isnt really a one that will be great at everything. I personally find that the Toyo T1-R and T1-S (255/35/18) are a great street tire for the price, others may disagree but I like them. Between the 2. I like the T1-S more than the T1-R. With these tires I have experienced them on the drag strip, autocross, and HPDE road course. For AutoX - this size tire even at lowboost....... not so great on tarmac, really easy to lose grip and spin/slide. For Drag Strip - On A prepped track, not the greatest tire to drag, but still fun, but you wont get the best times on these tires Road Course (HPDE) - These tires did great on low boost on the road course. Nothing like an RComp tire, but it went through quite a few heat cycles and for a street tire and it did great. There are other tires that will do better for a few laps, but after they hot, they start to get greasy really quick. The toyos were quite consistent even after a 2 day HPDE. The car was put in the fastest run group and even the race car instructors really liked how the tires held up for a street tire. With that said, if I were to buy street tires now, I would go Michelin Super Sports. They tend to do great on the street, both wet and dry, and hold up quite well on HPDEs. Well, just trying to help.

Thanks man I appreciate it, as I'm getting closer to the summer I'm starting to look and research more into my upcoming build, I'm not looking for 500+ more around 400, but I figure if they can withstand 500 they'll be good enough for 400!

[GG///M3]

It would be No different then any other Friday night at the track. As long as my car makes it in one piece to the starting line and you are in the other lane ( no matter who it is) they are going to get a battle to the end of that 1/4 mile we are both faced with. First to finish wins the bragging rights and $. I love a good challenge and am not afraid of losing. B.

My skateboard would win, but my e46 m3 would lose with great ease.

[Butters Stoch]

My skateboard would win, but my e46 m3 would lose with great ease.

Both would be a landslide. One win, one loss.

[GG///M3]

Both would be a landslide. One win, one loss.

Correct

[m3mods]

My skateboard would win, but my e46 m3 would lose with great ease.

I don't know man I put some sweet gel wheels and a fresh set of bone swiss' on my winter cruiser.. May be able to brake into the 8's with that setup

[GG///M3]

I don't know man I put some sweet gel wheels and a fresh set of bone swiss' on my winter cruiser.. May be able to brake into the 8's with that setup

Only if it has a 370z swap

[m3mods]

Only if it has a 370z swap

Ah damn ya got me there

[hsvturbo]

So I'm in the market for a new radiator and am thinking about a 2-pass all aluminum Mishimoto. Is a 2 pass enough for the average 500 to 600 whp M3 with AC, or do I need a 3pass?

[milKt]

Here comes the classic, "It all depends on what you plan to use your car for" response.