Fuel supply line removal - stuck on hard line

[Tom D]

either way, while 10 pounds of force is light, gasoline is volatile! put a flare on the end of the line, the life you save might be a loved one!

[beaucephus]

I yanked on the line hard enough to lift the car. It isn't going anywhere, but the warnings are well received. We were not able to get the flare tool to function due to space constraints and fear of fouling the line by deburring it. I still have the hose just in case one of my leads on the slip ring comes back, but that would just be for the barb, which I can probably get via standard 5/16" kit at this point.

[epmedia]

A 5/16" repair kit uses a ferrule that is too tight for the 8mm pipe (about .0025" too tight).

I may have found another slip ring, '75-80 Porshe 911 oil line ferrule.
Not sure if it's for 8mm pipe, did not find specs or part number for it. Inexpensive enough to check it out though...
pelican (fast shipping if you're in the west) has them too.

http://www.carid.com/1979-porsche-91...m-7749364.html

And if you have a local hose shop they can build a new hose for you with the barb fittings and a 225psi steel braided fuel hose

Just giving you more ideas...

Edit: stop lifting the car by the fuel hoses, that tears them on the insides...
When you do source the ferrule/slip ring - do not assemble it dry. Lube it so you can get really good torquing on it to squish the ferrule/slip ring really good. Clean the pipe really good before assembly too (ie: 220/360 grit, circular).

[gusm325]

I'm sure he cut the pipe, would something like this work?

http://www.malonespecialtyinc.com/Ma...e_nut_assy.htm

[beaucephus]

That part number epmedia suggested is 90010200302. It's available from everywhere when you search by the number. If that doesn't work it looks like swagelok fittings will do nicely to get a barb on there. Anyone know Swagelok suppliers? The one I found has a $50 minimum order.

[epmedia]

That part number epmedia suggested is 90010200302. It's available from everywhere when you search by the number. If that doesn't work it looks like swagelok fittings will do nicely to get a barb on there. Anyone know Swagelok suppliers? The one I found has a $50 minimum order.

I've run across some brass fuel repair kits (steel pipe to rubber hose) but they're not nearly as good as steel fittings. I think the only one I saw was steel pipe to nylon hose which the barb would be acceptable, but the brass ferrule and brass nut would probably crack before properly pinching the steel pipe on our e21s.
*****
I'm pretty sure the 90010200302 is for an 8mm pipe because the nuts I saw for them are advertised as 8mm, fingers crossed.

Disclaimer: I've not had to do this yet, these are just guestimations:

Do a good fit check before assembly. The ferrule should require ??about?? 3mm of squish before it seats flush against the barb fitting, this squish it what pinches the ferrule around the pipe which prevents the line from coming out and seals it. The end of the pipe should stick out of the ferrule ??about?? 1-2mm when its all squished together (look at your old one for reference).

Make sure the pipe stays against the barb fitting when squishing it all together. You can put a sharpie mark (or other method) on the pipe for reference. Do ??about?? 1/8 turns on the fittings while ensuring the pipe stays against the barb fitting.

Remember not to assemble it dry. Use engine oil or other light lube on the threads and outside of the ferrule.

[beaucephus]

I have one on the way for $0.65 so definitely worth a shot. If 90010200302 doesn't work I found another potential source here that specifically states 8mm.

http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Pors...R-COMPFIT.html

I'll post up the results when it gets here Monday.

[gusm325]

So you where finally able to separate the compression fitting?
If so... What you do?
Did you torch it?

[beaucephus]

The compression fitting is still stuck on the line, which I cut off the car. I should go see about getting that apart...

[epmedia]

The compression fitting is still stuck on the line, which I cut off the car. I should go see about getting that apart...

Soak it in penetrant for a couple days first, if you can wait. But now you can safely put some heat on it if needed
And be very careful not to damage the barb when you cut the clamp off!

[pommeree]

The compression fitting is still stuck on the line, which I cut off the car. I should go see about getting that apart...

That will be interesting because the function of the compression ring is to bite into the hard tubing thereby deforming both.
The pointed lip of my ring is buried flush into the surface of the tube.
To recycle it, I think I'd have to ream out the old tubing without compromising the ring then tap the ring down over a mandrel to expand it back enough to fit over new tubing.
(This all based solely on my examination of the compression ring that's appears to be fused solid on my old tubing)

[beaucephus]

I don't think the sleeve is reusable if that's what you are going for.

[beaucephus]

Ok folks so there is NO WAY this connection was ever coming off easy. It took some light hammer strikes on the bench to separate the ferrule from the hose end. The sleeve part I ordered, 90010200302, is in fact 8mm, but the collar is not as wide and I can't tell what material it is made of. It doesn't look like brass as the original. I'm following some leads from the Porche 944 community that has the same issues. This site is interesting. http://www.arnnworx.com/fuel_lines.htm

So far all the info I've found is a tease because suppliers are difficult to find. I might just fab the whole damn thing out of Parker parts, if I can find them.
20131209_211717.jpg

[epmedia]

The original ferrule is not brass either, they are a soft type of steel. The gold color you see on the old one is a type of anodizing to reduce corrosion.
Doe! Should have ordered two so you could do a test squeeze fit on that scrap pipe

[beaucephus]

Ordered more potential slip ring replacements. Parker parts D08LLX (ring), PSR08LX (another ring), and M08LCFX (nut). Hope this does it.

[pommeree]

I don't think the sleeve is reusable if that's what you are going for.

I think what I was trying to say in a round-about way was, "I don't think the sleeve is reusable"


I'm excited to see the selection of rings you've got coming.

[gusm325]

I'm excited to see the selection of rings you've got coming.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, please keep us posted.

[beaucephus]

I got some parts. It looks like I'm on the right track.

The difficult measurement for ordering is the width of the base in the bite rings. The first part I tried 90010200302 was too narrow. Careful study of the Parker catalog shows that one of the rings I ordered but have not yet recieved (D08LLX) is intended for a nuts with M12x1 thread, which I believe is going to be similar to 90010200302. The nut thread is the part we were missing. We need a bite ring that matches up to M14x1.5, which corresponds to the Parker L line.


From Left to Right are Parker M08LCFX, PSR08LX (top), Porche 90010200302 (bottom, too narrow), original compressed bite ring, original nut, and original hose end. A test fit of the parker parts looks pretty good. My plan is to take the hose ends (pictured and fuel distributor banjo) to a hydraulic shop to get compression fittings on a new line. Then I can tie back in using the bite fittings as the Germans intended. My only concern is the Parker ring seems taller than the original. The same fitting is used at the hard line in the back so I probably should have gotten 2 sets. I have a lot of lines coming so I'm going to photo document the progress as I swap out a bunch of lines.

[beaucephus]

Success!
Parker M08LCFX (nut) and PSR08LX (sleeve) seem to fill the gap for the NLA 07119970258 (#16) and 07119970111 (#17). I recommend getting both as they fit together better. I brought my FI hose to a hydraulic shop and had them install crimp collars on the hose ends effectively making a longer version of 13311272771 (supply hose #1) to make up for how much hard line I cut. I was able to get the line in the wheel well for a clean cut. It's pretty cramped under there. Fighting it in the installed position with a 14 and 17mm was not easy. It looks good and doesn't leak. In hindsight the EFI clamps were pretty stupid, so don't do that.

I followed the Parker provided instructions here. They look pretty important.http://www.parker.com/literature/Tub...e_Fittings.pdf


FI.png
20131231_095740~2.jpg20140102_153020.jpgunnamed.jpg

[Tom D]

nice! thanks for doing the leg work on this, now we got to get JR to attach it to the top.

[epmedia]

^ indeed.
I have a question for Beaucephus - How much squish gap was there between the 'stop' edge on the slip ring -to- the 'stop' edge on the OE hose fitting? And were you able to disassemble to inspect the bite of the slip ring onto the 8mm pipe? Just curious because use of the OE hose fitting with the aftermarket nut and slip ring...

[beaucephus]

I wouldn't measure in squish. The instructions were to preset the bite ring on the tube by getting all the fittings finger tight and turning the nut 1 1/2 turns. Then the slip ring is inspected on the tubing and reinstalled with only 12 degrees (half flat) of the nut past wrench tight. I think the instructions link has the answer you are looking for. I think it is more foolproof than it seems. I hit high resistance near where I should be in both preset and final install.

One more word of caution. The first hose the hydraulic shop put on was not EFI rated even when I stated the working pressure required. They just assumed everything they had was 300 PSI or better. If it doesn't have the pressure rating printed on the hose, it isn't right. I grabbed some Gates 225 PSI at a shop down the street and they remade the hose.

[Tom D]

EFI only runs 45 psi, KJet is close to 100.

[beaucephus]

Bad term, thanks. I stated 100 PSI at the shops.

[pommeree]

I'm now pumped to get back to work on mine.
Thanks Beaucephus!