Messed up transmission detent installation

[Randy Forbes]

Correct, for a total of five. I've been doing both for so long now that I take for granted that it's one (1) service, but I'm pretty sure that it's actually two (2) separate SIBs

The three on the top:







And two (2) more on the side:

[M3C]

Have the same parts in my drawer, when clutch time comes up will replace all 5 but there is still some more life to the original clutch.
Randy, are you saying the 5th gear detent pin came as incorrectly mounted from BMW factory?

[Crustashio]

The pin supplied with the kit (dual ramp) is different than the pin that comes out of the transmission (single ramp). I made the assumption that the "newer" part was right. Honestly I wouldn't even bother replacing those pins if I rebuilt a trans again, the bushing is the issue with the 5th/reverse ones.

[Randy Forbes]

The pin supplied with the kit (dual ramp) is different than the pin that comes out of the transmission (single ramp). I made the assumption that the "newer" part was right. Honestly I wouldn't even bother replacing those pins if I rebuilt a trans again, the bushing is the issue with the 5th/reverse ones.

I've come across several where there has been detectable wear on the 5th/reverse pins, so now I keep a couple of each in stock. Those pins are not included with the bushing kits.

The rounded pin will make it a little smoother going into 5th (5th also has the softer of the two springs), and that may have been a running revision, not necessarily "wrong" as the picture was captioned.

To each their own, as for what you want to replace or how you want to approach it; I'm just offering up what discoveries I've made over the course of doing the same job(s) dozens of times.

[JPatrick]

You can get all 5 in one kit from bimmerdiffs (http://www.bimmerdiffs.com/collectio...vice-parts-kit)
They have the shift pin drifts for installing as well. The drifts are kind of expensive especially as they are not a high use item in your toolbox. I ended up buying both as I didn't see anyway to install without the drifts.

BTW: I received the replacement bushing so I'm going to give it another try this weekend and hopefully won't mess it up again.

[Randy Forbes]

You can get all 5 in one kit from bimmerdiffs (http://www.bimmerdiffs.com/collectio...vice-parts-kit)
They have the shift pin drifts for installing as well. The drifts are kind of expensive especially as they are not a high use item in your toolbox. I ended up buying both as I didn't see anyway to install without the drifts.

BTW: I received the replacement bushing so I'm going to give it another try this weekend and hopefully won't mess it up again.

Looks like Jon will rent the drift set (or maybe it's a buy-back?) so win-win. I'll be around all weekend__typically in the garage__if you need moral support.

My cell #'s been posted enough times in the Z3 section, if you're desperate enough, you'll find it

[JPatrick]

Looks like Jon will rent the drift set (or maybe it's a buy-back?) so win-win. I'll be around all weekend__typically in the garage__if you need moral support.

My cell #'s been posted enough times in the Z3 section, if you're desperate enough, you'll find it

I got the bushing out (it was really in there) and used a small round file to clean up the burrs along with some 320 grit sandpaper wrapped around a wooden dowel to smooth everything up.

I think it is in good shape now. My plan was to drive the bushing in halfway, check the pin fit, 3/4 way, check again , then all the way if everything is OK. Am I missing something?

[M3C]

Are you using the BMW tools to drive the bushings in?

[JPatrick]

Are you using the BMW tools to drive the bushings in?

Yes, I have a set of shift pin drift tools specifically for this task.

[Randy Forbes]

Just make sure you have the pins oriented the right way, and that should be obvious.

No phone calls, so I presume everything went your way

Meanwhile, I was packing the finished S-54 into a crate, and then thinking about the next one...

[mrf]

Are you using the BMW tools to drive the bushings in?

Does anyone know if any of the sizes included in this kit would work to push the bushings in?
http://www.harborfreight.com/bushing...set-68971.html

[10aet2]

I've come across several where there has been detectable wear on the 5th/reverse pins, so now I keep a couple of each in stock. Those pins are not included with the bushing kits.

The rounded pin will make it a little smoother going into 5th (5th also has the softer of the two springs), and that may have been a running revision, not necessarily "wrong" as the picture was captioned.

To each their own, as for what you want to replace or how you want to approach it; I'm just offering up what discoveries I've made over the course of doing the same job(s) dozens of times.

I did a writeup on this issue a few years ago because when I pulled my 5th gear pin out it looked nothing like the new pin I ordered. You are right about the new pin affecting the resistance going into 5th. I also found that the new pin actually moves the neutral position of the shifter over to the passenger side a slight amount. I did a lot of measuring on this position while the transmission was out of the car so that the shifter slop would not influence my measurements. In the end, I found that the new "curved" pin actually moves the neutral position right in line with the 3rd and 4th gear gates so I decided to go with the new pin. I did this about 3 years ago and I can say I like the feel of the "curved" pin better.

Also, as others have mentioned I always keep the fluid in the transmission while doing the detents so that at the end of the procedure I can "slosh" the oil around and make sure it carries away any debris generated. Then you can drain the oil and fill it up new fluid.

For people that haven't done detents and shift pins, it is amazing how great the transmission shifts afterwards especially if you had to deal with the 5th gear lean all the time. I would also suggest replacing all of your shifter bushings / wear parts while doing this job and you will get rid of a lot of the slop in the shifter.

[JPatrick]

Does anyone know if any of the sizes included in this kit would work to push the bushings in?

I don't know for sure but I would hesitate trying them. The shift pin drifts are made to bottom out (at least the 5th and reserve gear ones) at a predetermined depth. Also, the bushings fit snugly on the drifts making it very difficult to modify the bushing shape when driving it in. The hole fit is pretty tight.

[Crustashio]

I did a writeup on this issue a few years ago because when I pulled my 5th gear pin out it looked nothing like the new pin I ordered. You are right about the new pin affecting the resistance going into 5th. I also found that the new pin actually moves the neutral position of the shifter over to the passenger side a slight amount. I did a lot of measuring on this position while the transmission was out of the car so that the shifter slop would not influence my measurements. In the end, I found that the new "curved" pin actually moves the neutral position right in line with the 3rd and 4th gear gates so I decided to go with the new pin. I did this about 3 years ago and I can say I like the feel of the "curved" pin better. .

Huh, I thought I was the only person that noticed this. I just chalked it up to having replaced everything including shifter bushings.

[JPatrick]

Just make sure you have the pins oriented the right way, and that should be obvious.

No phone calls, so I presume everything went your way

Houston, we have liftoff. Yes, I smoothed out the bore hole and carefully drove in the new bushing. Drove it partway in, checked the pin fit, lather, rinse, repeat until it was all the way in.
Whew! Thanks for all the help!

- - - Updated - - -

One more question. If I turn the input shaft with the tran in neutral, I feel something like a clunk once every rotation like something is lightly engaging. What is that? Is it normal? Thanks!

[Randy Forbes]

Yeah, that's just the gap in the synchronizer rings and sliding hubs, it's not an issue.

[JPatrick]

Yeah, that's just the gap in the synchronizer rings and sliding hubs, it's not an issue.

Cool. Thanks. New clutch arriving this week. Close to wrapping this up.

[hide1]

And two (2) more on the side:

What is the third hole I don't see mentioned (next to Reverse, under 'RED' on the casing)? I checked the bimmerdiffs kit and it does include five replacements, but there doesn't appear to be a part for this 6th hole. Should it get replaced while doing the rest, or is it unnecessary for some reason? I saw someone discuss in another thread below but wanted some opinions..

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=398477

[Smoody]

Does anyone know if any of the sizes included in this kit would work to push the bushings in?
http://www.harborfreight.com/bushing...set-68971.html

Yes. I used one of these bushing sets when I did the shift pin/bushing replacement a couple of weeks ago. One of the rods without any attachment worked for the smaller bushings on the top of the tranny. I found one of the rings was a pretty close fit for the reverse and 5th bushings. I was able to install all 5 bushings without any issues. Don't forget your coupon when you go. I found a 25% off coupon in the back of one of my car mags along with a coupon for a free flashlight with purchase.

They also have a cheap scissor type transmission jack that was also very helpful for getting everything back together.

[Uliman]

What is the third hole I don't see mentioned (next to Reverse, under 'RED' on the casing)? I checked the bimmerdiffs kit and it does include five replacements, but there doesn't appear to be a part for this 6th hole. Should it get replaced while doing the rest, or is it unnecessary for some reason? I saw someone discuss in another thread below but wanted some opinions..

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=398477

From reading that thread I get that this is the 1st gear detent. I just did my 5 detents and completely did not know about this one. Oh well, tranny is back in with new clutch. 1st gear seems OK but I do wish I would have done that one also! I guess if I would have just done a bit of math I would have realized there are really 6 detents.

[Crustashio]

...There are only 3 detent pins, on the top of the transmission. There is one for the 1st/2nd fork, the 3rd/4th fork and the 5th/reverse fork. The pins on the side of the transmission are there for centering/resistance (if you ever look inside the 5th/reverse holes you will see a roller cam which actuates the 5th/reverse pins). If there was an issue with that pin I believe you would experience 1st gear lean which I have never heard of on the ZF 320.

[M3C]

OK, the side pins "5th" and "reverse" on the tranny are there for centering/resistance, what is that 3rd pin next to them for?
If that 3rd pin is defective what are the symptoms? I am asking this so the pros here can give us good answers this way we know should this pin be replaced or not?

"1st gear lean" would be a reverse pin issue.

[Uliman]

...There are only 3 detent pins, on the top of the transmission. There is one for the 1st/2nd fork, the 3rd/4th fork and the 5th/reverse fork. The pins on the side of the transmission are there for centering/resistance (if you ever look inside the 5th/reverse holes you will see a roller cam which actuates the 5th/reverse pins). If there was an issue with that pin I believe you would experience 1st gear lean which I have never heard of on the ZF 320.

Thanks for clearing that up, I think. Would not replacing that no. 3 one cause notchiness with shifting the trans into the first gear?

- - - Updated - - -

OK, the side pins "5th" and "reverse" on the tranny are there for centering/resistance, what is that 3rd pin next to them for?
If that 3rd pin is defective what are the symptoms? I am asking this so the pros here can give us good answers this way we know should this pin be replaced or not?

"1st gear lean" would be a reverse pin issue.

I am having the same questions. Thanks

[Randy Forbes]

I've never touched the third (3rd) pin on the side, as all symptoms were rectified with either/both the SIB actions, covering the 1st/2nd engagement difficulty or the shift lever not self-aligning with the 3rd/4th gate (the lazy lever, flopping to the 5th gear gate).







8

[scooper]

awesome thread and kudos to Randy!

Can anyone please confirm the part numbers for all the parts that should be replaced? Got this from the bimmerdiffs site:23117525048 x3 07119937227 x3
23117542726 x2
23311224849 x1
23317502165 x1

These don't quite match the PNs I can find here:

http://2009.bmwfans.info/parts/catal...hifting_parts/

What are the PNs for the drift pin tools (just for comparison)?

Thanks!