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Thread: Messed up transmission detent installation

  1. #1
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    Messed up transmission detent installation

    I picked up a shift pin service kit and drifts from bimmerdiffs. I managed to replace the 3 top shift pins and the reverse shift pin without any problem although getting the reverse bushing out is a PITA.
    While removing the 5th gear bushing, I scored the cylinder hole a bit while deforming the original bushing. I thought it was not too bad. I drove in the new bushing with the correct bushing drift only to find that the 5th gear pin (neither new nor old one) would slide easily into the bushing. My fear is that when I scored the cylinder, it was just enough to deform the bushing when I installed. Either that or I got a slightly deformed bushing to start with. This is very frustrating. It looks like I have t remove the new bushing and after the bad luck last time, I'm hesitant to chisel along the seam to deform and loosen it. I know it is too late but there has got to be a better way of removing those bushings, Trying to break them along the seam seems very lame especially when the housing is soft aluminum.

    Anyone have experience doing this? Maybe hit the same issue? I'm venting more than anything because I'm pissed (mostly at myself) for this screw up.

    Attached is a picture is of the scored bushing cylinder wall.

    Thanks much,
    --Joe

    5thGearPinHole.jpg

  2. #2
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    I borrow a blind hole puller from AutoZone, and that pretty much eliminates the scoring issue. You will need to somehow de-bur that hole.

  3. #3
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    The blind hole puller is a good idea. I have been meaning to buy one. Harbor Freight sells them. On one car I did, it was the time. The first time, I did only Reverse and 5th. That was in 2008. Then in 2012, I was changing the clutch so I decided to do all gears (and I had a set of drifts this time). That meant removing the sleeves I had installed. I got them out, but I did gouge the hole a little. I ground down the gouge so nothing stuck up and then put the new sleeve in. So I think you can replace it if you feel you messed it up and want to go through the effort to try again.

    Before you do, question whether it has loosened up a little. I did another car a while ago (my 4th one of these jobs) and either 5th or reverse was noticeably stiffer afterwards. We wondered whether we did more harm than good. We gouged that hole pretty bad before sleeving, but made sure no ridges stuck up from the gouging. The car shifts great now, about 6 months later and it never shifted badly after our work.

  4. #4
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    Basically, if a ZF comes out (for anything) it is worthwhile to do the detent refresh.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaponbob View Post
    I borrow a blind hole puller from AutoZone, and that pretty much eliminates the scoring issue. You will need to somehow de-bur that hole.
    I have a blind hole puller and the bushing would not budge with it. It was useful pulling the big pins that were a little stuck (just grabbing them using compression on the interior wall) but the bushing were a no go. There is not much of a lip to grab and trying to use compression on the interior walls did not work either. I was concerned that if the jaws of the blind hole puller were too tight trying to grab the lip, I'd do a lot more damage as I slide-hammered it out.

    Did you manage to grab the bottom lip and pull the bushing out?

  6. #6
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    When you get the deformed bush out, smooth the bore with a file, but don't dimensionally change it, only knock down the high spots. Put a new bush in and you'll be fine.

    I've done the shift pins at least fifty (>50) times, all for Z3/M models.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    When you get the deformed bush out, smooth the bore with a file, but don't dimensionally change it, only knock down the high spots. Put a new bush in and you'll be fine.

    I've done the shift pins at least fifty (>50) times, all for Z3/M models.
    Thanks. When you pull the bushing, do you use the "deform it with a screwdriver" method? That is the method shown here: http://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplass...hift_pins.html and seems to be the most common way. I could not seem to get it out with a blind hole puller.

  8. #8
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    I would not try to remove it with a blind hole puller as it will most likely damage the inner walls. The deform method (carefully and slowly) is a much better way.

  9. #9
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    Using the puller is sort of an acquired skill. It is important to have a fresh claw as a worn one will tend to slip. After 5-6 gearboxes, I have gained the "feel". The reason I don't use the smash and bend method is fear of knocking one, or a piece of one, in to the case. But, whatever works, works. The RESULTS are what counts, and every box I have done has been "buttahr"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPatrick View Post
    Thanks. When you pull the bushing, do you use the "deform it with a screwdriver" method? That is the method shown here: http://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplass...hift_pins.html and seems to be the most common way. I could not seem to get it out with a blind hole puller.
    I've always "deformed" them. I've got a small Craftsman screwdrive that I did some work on to facilitate that; the "backside" is ground with a radius, to help prevent it gouging the bore, and I've put a little bit of an angle on the tip, to help getting it started along the seam. For any other purpose, this screwdriver is useless, but for getting the bushes our, it's the charm.

    But every now and then, I still come across a bush that's hard to get started (to split) and scratch the bore a little bit. I don't sweat it, I just break out a file that matches the radius and dress down the high spots. I'll follow that up with a fine stone, more to appease me than because it needs it.

    I just realised that your link is to one of my best friend's write-up (he's the local guy that keeps my server online too). Derek (98///M Rdstr) and Mark, his dad (99///M Coupe) are the closest friends I have since moving to Florida__both are great people!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by snaponbob View Post
    Using the puller is sort of an acquired skill. It is important to have a fresh claw as a worn one will tend to slip. After 5-6 gearboxes, I have gained the "feel". The reason I don't use the smash and bend method is fear of knocking one, or a piece of one, in to the case. But, whatever works, works. The RESULTS are what counts, and every box I have done has been "buttahr"
    I'll be honest, it never occurred to me to try a blind puller; the TIS/SIB says to fold the bush, it worked, so I've always done them that way.

    I have a couple of blind-hole puller sets, and it would be easy enough to gage where to set the mandrel, based on one of the new bushes. Next time I do one, I'll give it a try.

    For the record though, you'd had to be pretty clumsy/unlucky to drop the bush inside. I just lift the roll until I can grip it with a pair of 4" Needle-nosed Vise-Grips, and it still takes a fair effort to twist and pull it out.

    When I file of any burrs, I tip the trans so the shavings have to fall out, not in. And besides, a little aluminum powder isn't much of a threat to the hardened steel gears/bearings

  11. #11
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    Randy, you got any pictures of that modified Craftsman screwdriver tip?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3C View Post
    Randy, you got any pictures of that modified Craftsman screwdriver tip?
    If I was at home, it'd be easier to just take a new one, but I can look...

    I'm fighting with an intermittant internet connection, which is not condusive to searching through my website (>40,000 pictures) and it's not so easy to remember which cars I did the shift pin service on. I found a pic of the tool in use, but the tip isn't featured; might have to wait until we get back home later today/tomorrow...



    Last edited by Randy Forbes; 11-11-2013 at 10:41 AM.

  13. #13
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    I recently did all 5 detents and discovered that there are 2 ways to screw this up. The first, which everyone seems to discuss, is damaging the walls of the bore then installing the bushing which now won't smoothly accept the piston. Obviously, the remedy is to make certain you smooth out whatever damage you have made prior to installing the new bushing. The second way is what I discovered I did with my 5th gear detent. Although I had the detent tools, I did not drive the bushing in perfectly straight. I just was not careful - it was the last one, of course, and I probably was getting tired. I know it wasn't bore damage because I was very careful removing the old one and ensured that the bore was smooth prior to installing the bushing. So out it came again and I installed a new one; this time being more careful and, voila, it worked perfectly.

    I wish I had known of the blind puller; probably would have saved me some time. Hopefully, I'll never have to do this job again. Regarding any shavings that might fall into the tranny: I left the old fluid in until the trans was re-installed after the clutch job and then drained it. My thinking is that any shavings probably came out during the draining process. One article on this subject says to put some trans fluid in and slosh it around and then drain. I wasn't too worried about all of that. Anyway, its great to have this done because it just is not a concern anymore on my M3 that has 150k on it. Suspension fresh is next!
    1999 M3 vert, Rogue SSK, Conforti intake, SS replica catback, UUC adj rear control arms, Eibach springs, Konis, Beyern rims, cross-drilled Zimmermans w/Akebono Euro ceramic pads, ASC delete, Bosch Euro lamps, ZKW Euro foglamps

  14. #14
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    Thanks Randy. That is very helpful (and encouraging). I'm going to order 2 (just to be safe) new bushings and give it another go. It will likely take a week or so as I doubt the local dealer has bushings in stock. I'll see if bimmerdiffs can fast ship them.

  15. #15
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    If you don't mind sending me an E-mail to jog my memory, I'll be happy to take some clear/consise pictures of the screwdriver tip (my PMs here fill up too fast already, and I'll see an E-mail sooner). erandyforbes@aol.com

    Like Uliman says, most of you only have to suffer through this once, but it's best to know all you can about it ahead of time. I'm just crazy enough to do this sort of thing for a living...

  16. #16
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    I used a set from Auto Zone. The proper one is the next to smallest. After assembling the puller, I pushed the puller into the bushing until it sort of bottomed out, turned the expansion pin into the jaws until it was snug, back off a tiny bit, and pulled it out until it "caught" on the bushing. Then, I tightened it a bit, and with a SERIOUS grip, pulled the slide weight HARD and STRAIGHT. Follow through is important. If the jaws slip and pull out, no harm no foul. Reset and make sure the jaws are caught on the bushing by tightening it a bit more. It works, and no scuffing of the aluminum.

  17. #17
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    Just order 2 new bushing sets. One for backup in case I mess up again. They should be in by Wednesday so I know what I'll be doing this weekend.

    Now if that new clutch package would just arrive ...

  18. #18
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    On cue...











    Nothing special, just wanted to take the edge off, so it can't bite into the bore.

  19. #19
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    Great simple handmade tool, thanks Randy.

  20. #20
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    Yes, very nice. Thanks. I think I have an old screwdriver I can grind a bit before I go after that problematic bushing.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3C View Post
    Great simple handmade tool, thanks Randy.
    Quote Originally Posted by JPatrick View Post
    Yes, very nice. Thanks. I think I have an old screwdriver I can grind a bit before I go after that problematic bushing.
    Yes, you guys get the idea, just trying to make the screwdriver less lethal to the aluminum case.

    If you put a scratch in it, it'll be minimal, but just be careful about leaving any high spots behind.

    BTW, the guy (Uliman again) that suggested leaving the fluid in and draining it afterward was spot on; I do the same thing

  22. #22
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    Honestly, I just pounded a small eyeglass flathead screwdriver with a hammer until it deformed, then stuck in a bigger one to peel it up. It doesn't matter if you scratch the bore, just sand down the high spots with increasingly fine grit sandpaper. High spots will cause the bushing ID to be decreased, but low spots won't cause the opposite situation. You'd have to remove some serious material from the bore to actually cause a loose fit with that bushing design.

    I can understand making a tool if you're going to do lots, but for a one off job I didn't bother.

  23. #23
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    Glad to see the different challenges and methods of resolving them prior to going into this next week. The one concern I have is Uliman said he replaced 5 detent bushings but the kit I got from bimmerdiffs contains only 3? Am I missing something...?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hide1 View Post
    Glad to see the different challenges and methods of resolving them prior to going into this next week. The one concern I have is Uliman said he replaced 5 detent bushings but the kit I got from bimmerdiffs contains only 3? Am I missing something...?
    Fith & reverse. These are the bushings that have to be split/removed.

  25. #25
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    I believe there are 3 other bushings that is a good idea to replace, they are not a must but nice attention to detail and your tranny will feel like new.
    Last edited by M3C; 11-14-2013 at 09:49 PM. Reason: update

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