Collecting techncial info on the Z4/ZHP/530 6 speed swap

[diptenkrom]

My #1 tip is don't have a baby during a project like this #2 tip is don't catch a case of "While-I'm-In-There-Itis". Once I realized I needed to take off the intake manifold I started planning to do a bunch of other work in the engine bay...

That second one is kinda my problem. I am wanting to do a m54b30 stroker build, with 6 speed swap and m3 3.38 LSD diff and e46 brakes. Full suspension overhaul, and full exhaust. Along with the trans I want to do a lightweight single mass flywheel and upgrade clutch setup. So I have decided to build the driveline, brakes, exhaust, and suspension first. Then after I get that all where it needs to be do the motor build. So in the end build everything around the motor swap and then do the motor last. It will probably be a long process as I don't really have "While-I'm-In-There-Itis" money right now.

I will keep up with this thread as you progress, wish you luck and I will probably be following in your footsteps in about 2-3 months.

[cxvmchkh]

Let's start with Open Issue # 2. Is there any "out of the box" transmission brace solution or does it have to be custom?

[wanganstyle]

I have started but just disassembly at this point, so I can't update any more on the "unknowns" from above. But I'm pretty optimistic that the options I laid out above should work, especially the E90 trans adapter with the E36 auto floor brace. The one big risk is the clutch setup, but I'm hopeful the E60 clutch / flywheel should work. @casperlynn has a thread from a few days ago about his clutch setup with this trans, but note that he has the Zionsville bearing carrier.

If you go for it post any questions / info here

I did this swap into my e30 a while ago (the e90 floor brace photo linked above is mine) ; let me answer some clutch questions:

1. BEST OEM flywheel for ZF 6 speed swap to m52 family engine:

***Z4 3.0 or e46 330i "ZHP" + its special screws. (bolts right on to m20b25 or m52b28 family engines)
- the needle bearing pilot is already in the flywheel

2. best Clutch to use for higher power applications; proven by Burger tuning on the dyno to over 450rwhp

***135i / 335i/ 535i twin turbo; it will bolt directly to the m54b30 ZF6-speed flywheel

Is this setup driveable on the street?

YES. was daily driven in my "stock" engine e30 with stock m20 engine in san francisco hills.

[jrsmitchell]

Let's start with Open Issue # 2. Is there any "out of the box" transmission brace solution or does it have to be custom?

See the comment # 21 above. I bought a few different adapters and that was the result. The E90 trans adapter pretty much lines up horizontally with the E36 Automatic floor brace - you'll just have to file out a few mm for the mounts to sit perfectly. That only covers the positioning in one axis though. I'm hopefully it will also line up fore/aft but I'm not sure yet.

You guys are getting me motivated to get back out in the garage and do some work again



@wanganstyle - thanks for weighing in Good to know about those clutch options.

[wanganstyle]

See the comment # 21 above. I bought a few different adapters and that was the result. The E90 trans adapter pretty much lines up horizontally with the E36 Automatic floor brace - you'll just have to file out a few mm for the mounts to sit perfectly. That only covers the positioning in one axis though. I'm hopefully it will also line up fore/aft but I'm not sure yet.

You guys are getting me motivated to get back out in the garage and do some work again



@wanganstyle - thanks for weighing in Good to know about those clutch options.

The position of the auto mount should be correct length wise for e36 body as I used a e36m3 automatic driveshaft for my e30 6 speed swap. Where it is up/down and it's relationship with the e90 F-body mount I cannot comment

[diptenkrom]

I did this swap into my e30 a while ago (the e90 floor brace photo linked above is mine) ; let me answer some clutch questions:

1. BEST OEM flywheel for ZF 6 speed swap to m52 family engine:

***Z4 3.0 or e46 330i "ZHP" + its special screws. (bolts right on to m20b25 or m52b28 family engines)
- the needle bearing pilot is already in the flywheel

2. best Clutch to use for higher power applications; proven by Burger tuning on the dyno to over 450rwhp

***135i / 335i/ 535i twin turbo; it will bolt directly to the m54b30 ZF6-speed flywheel

Is this setup driveable on the street?

YES. was daily driven in my "stock" engine e30 with stock m20 engine in san francisco hills.

So I want to get rid of the dual mass flywheel... Is there a good sprung hub clutch lightweight flywheel option? I want a faster revving motor, and more response.

[wanganstyle]

So I want to get rid of the dual mass flywheel... Is there a good sprung hub clutch lightweight flywheel option? I want a faster revving motor, and more response.

Call UUC, SPEC, SOUTHBEND

[diptenkrom]

Call UUC, SPEC, SOUTHBEND

Spec steel smfw/stage 1 sprung hub ~ $1025

UUC alum smfw/organic sprung hub ~ $1150

UUC alum smfw/cerametallic sprung hub ~ $1300

Was not expecting to spend over $1000 on just the clutch flywheel combo. Spec's alum kit is real close in price to the steel, I am leaning towards the steel considering it is a little heavier (15lbs) and should alleviate lot of the rattle. But if I can find a deal $5-700 I will take what I can get...

[diptenkrom]

See the comment # 21 above. I bought a few different adapters and that was the result. The E90 trans adapter pretty much lines up horizontally with the E36 Automatic floor brace - you'll just have to file out a few mm for the mounts to sit perfectly. That only covers the positioning in one axis though. I'm hopefully it will also line up fore/aft but I'm not sure yet.

You guys are getting me motivated to get back out in the garage and do some work again



@wanganstyle - thanks for weighing in Good to know about those clutch options.

Depending on how far off and in what direction you could probably fab so kind of spacer/shim to make the e90 one work. I assume the e30 was different so we can't assume anything from that.

[wanganstyle]

Depending on how far off and in what direction you could probably fab so kind of spacer/shim to make the e90 one work. I assume the e30 was different so we can't assume anything from that.

Perhaps weld this to a steel auto e30 Trans x member ?

http://store.garagistic.com/ocart/bm...-speed-bracket

[diptenkrom]

okay. i am getting ready to start buying up parts. i want to run my thoughts by you guys before i start to spend money i don't have to waste.

i have a 330i 6speed trans with all of its shifter parts, down to the knob, and factory clutch and DM flywheel lined up.

if i get that, then all i should need is the mounting brackets (hopefully the e90/e36auto thing works), and the driveshaft, correct?

i was thinking of starting with an e36 m3 auto shaft and diff (diff i want and shaft is supposed to "work") then later on i will get the right shaft made/extended, and when i get to building my stroker motor i will upgrade the clutch/flywheel, as it is more than i can spend all at once.

am i leaving anything out? should i get a short shifter now, or is it hard to do afterward? will the reverse light sensor work, as i hate not having back up lights?

@ JRSMITCHELL - Have you gotten any further along in the swap to give any more useful advice? i plan on having my trans/diff/exhaust done by April. Probably time to start a build thread...

[wanganstyle]

i have a 330i 6speed trans with all of its shifter parts, down to the knob, and factory clutch and DM flywheel lined up.

if i get that, then all i should need is the mounting brackets (hopefully the e90/e36auto thing works), and the driveshaft, correct?

i was thinking of starting with an e36 m3 auto shaft and diff (diff i want and shaft is supposed to "work") then later on i will get the right shaft made/extended, and when i get to building my stroker motor i will upgrade the clutch/flywheel, as it is more than i can spend all at once.

am i leaving anything out? should i get a short shifter now, or is it hard to do afterward? will the reverse light sensor work, as i hate not having back up lights?

@ JRSMITCHELL - Have you gotten any further along in the swap to give any more useful advice? i plan on having my trans/diff/exhaust done by April. Probably time to start a build thread...

use the 6mt+flywheel clutch setup you have now.


if you really want an aftermarket shifter setup put it in with the 6mt;
use AKG race shifter mounted to the body if you want to avoid some work + the OEM e36 6mt selector rod OR a DSSR if desired.


+e36M auto driveshaft; you dont need the diff from the e36m3 auto unless you want the ratio.

reverse sensor from 5 speed gearbox e30 or e36 will plug right into the 6mt gearbox

[diptenkrom]

Thanks for the info! I want the LSD and ratio of the m3 auto diff which is why it was on my list. Still rocking the 2.93 328i open diff right now.

Also along the lines of the short shifter, I think I'm going to get the z4 3.0 shift lever. Lower knob and shorter shift, but not crazy short. Z4m lever is the shortest throw from what I've read.

[jrsmitchell]

@ JRSMITCHELL - Have you gotten any further along in the swap to give any more useful advice? i plan on having my trans/diff/exhaust done by April. Probably time to start a build thread...

Nope sorry haven't had a chance to work on it recently, I'm traveling now. You're getting good advice from @wangan. I would refresh the a shifter bits while you're in there unless it's all in obviously good shape. It's possible to do it with the trans in but definitely a pain.

[wanganstyle]

Nope sorry haven't had a chance to work on it recently, I'm traveling now. You're getting good advice from @wangan. I would refresh the a shifter bits while you're in there unless it's all in obviously good shape. It's possible to do it with the trans in but definitely a pain.

Only a few have actually done this conversation so speaking from experience. .........may perhaps mean something?

The zf6 speed native flywheels for m54b30 are VERY light; 20# or so.

Is almost pointless to use a single mass fly when the dual is only 20lbs; DM pressure plates seem to be lighter than single mass units.
Unless because racecar and all that great logic.

BMW factory clutch sets do better in daily drive application than anything by an aftermarket company.

If one does not abuse the clutch it can take almost double the stress even under serious abuse; our endurance racing e30 with s52b32 engine uses a original off the shelf m20b25 clutch; it's done over 50 hours and is still perfect.


2.93 final drive actually pairs with the diesel version of the zf6 speed very very well; gs637dz has a very short 1st and 2nd gear; it's natively paired with a 2.65 final drive ratio.

The easiest way to have both short shifter and 6 speed swap in e36 (if you have the $$$) is:


Akg race shifter (bolted to transmission tunnel)
+ e36m euro 6 speed selector rod

Nope sorry haven't had a chance to work on it recently, I'm traveling now. You're getting good advice from @wangan. I would refresh the a shifter bits while you're in there unless it's all in obviously good shape. It's possible to do it with the trans in but definitely a pain.

[diptenkrom]

Will this trans not mount with the e36 evo cross member? They are cheaper than I thought...

[JuCo]

Being turboed and having 400whp and looking for 550+ would the 330/Z4/ZHP 6-SPD stand up to the abuse/power? I have sourced one and would use the zionsville kit, but don't know if I'm asking for trouble. I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the subject.

[Nutzy]

I think like a lot of things, it depends on your mechanical sympathy. The box in question is '370' NM, which is not a huge amount less than the 420G M3 box. Humble G260's (260NM) have also been known to take a stupid beating and come out the other side OK.

I'm running a Z4 6sp and it is a sweet bit of machinery.

[flyfishvt]

People consistently run the ZF 5 speed on cars with 600+ hp turbo setups. Failure rates on those grannies is pretty small and don't forget most of them have 150,000 miles. All the 6 speed trannies that fit an e36 have higher Torque ratings than the ZF 5 speed.

[diptenkrom]

Nope sorry haven't had a chance to work on it recently, I'm traveling now. You're getting good advice from @wangan. I would refresh the a shifter bits while you're in there unless it's all in obviously good shape. It's possible to do it with the trans in but definitely a pain.

not sure if i will get a response, but did you ever get htis swap completed? i have been on hold with my project for a while, the trans i had lined up got sold and job situation changed, so just getting back to thinking about doing this, and wondered if you did get this done and what mount you ended up with? also if you had any impressions of how much it is worth it?

[cragg56]

Bump for results

Sent from my SM-T707V using Tapatalk

[jesusbarriga]

Hello,




I am writing to you from Spain, I am currently in the process of changing to a 6-speed gearbox zf e46 330i and I have some doubts,




1.- did the e90 bracket / e36 crossbar combination work?




2.- I have the feeling that the gear lever needs to be shortened, is that true?




3.- I am going to use the first section of the e36 automatic transmission so as not to have to cut the original transmission.


Thanks a lot.


ps: sorry my level of English ... not very good

[iamanonymous]

In the interest of those like me that are willing to tackle this feat, I am super simplifying what I’m using to complete the swap:

1. E46 sedan
2. E90 2006 330i 6 speed GS6-37BZ - TJEP
3. E90 2006 330i entire shifter assembly including selector rod and dual bitch clips
4. ClutchMax e46 stage 4 pressure plate and chromoly flywheel, I could not use my previous clutch disc.
5. Clutchmasters part number TQ03CM3 (similar to zionsville needle pilot bearing adapter). They may see some sales of these and wonder why. I did a ton of research and saw they had an early e46 zhp flywheel that had a center bearing adapter that bolted to the flywheel bolts. It was $120. Cheaper than buying a new flywheel and should work.
6. Pre LCI e46 323i/328i automatic driveshaft (the new gearbox is like 4-5 inches longer than my getrag 5 speed was). This driveshaft is a lot shorter than the manual one. May need to be cut and welded and rebalanced. Not sure yet.
7. Aluminum and polyurethane “guibo” for the auto driveshaft.
8. E90 stage 5 solid hub clutch disk with the 23 spline center (or is it 21, I forget)
9. Rally road transmission mounts
10. Custom 1/4” steel transmission mount brace. Not yet made. Working on “CAD” prototype.
11. Modified bell housing to access oil pan bolts.
12. E46 starter
13. E46 clutch slave cylinder

This is the basic list. The hardest thing for me was reading through incomplete posts like these and going to realoem to research for weeks and months.

My setup has multiple supporting drivetrain mods and upgrades, but you get the jist.

I have yet to find a bolt on mounting bracket. Has anyone tried to use the e90 mount brace on the e46 sedan with this trans? I’m guessing there is at least one person that has tried.

In retrospect, I feel I have the better transmission but the z4m or zhp swap would have been a little easier. I got this trans for a fraction of the cost and expected the fitment issues.

[jrsmitchell]

Hey folks, I've had a few people message me about this recently, so wanted to updated that FYI I never did complete this swap. Had other priorities the last few years... 👶👶🏡🦠


I think this is still a cool swap and there should be SO MANY of these transmissions out there that I'd think this would be more common. (or maybe it is now and I'm not aware?). Anyway I did learn a few things along the way so it wasn't a complete failure.

First on the the trans bracket <-> floor brace combinations that I was posting about. For everyone that said to just buy the Zionsville part, YOU WERE RIGHT. 😂 Although sadly I don't think they sell those anymore? The E90 330 trans bracket (PN 22316760303) and E36 auto floor brace that I posted a picture of in Comment #21 ended up being the closest to working out of the box. The bolt holes line up perfectly. HOWEVER with everything bolted up the bracket ends up very close to the floor brace - too close to fit a standard BMW trans mount. A standard trans mount is about ~32mm tall, and this bracket/brace combo leaves you with ~15-20mm. What I ended up trying was a small "isolation mount" which looks like a teeny tiny version of the BMW trans mount.


I popped those in there and although they look hilariously small I was pretty comfortable I could at least get the car moving with them in place. I'm not sure how long they'd last through as the rubber was pretty soft. It would be cool to find a higher durometer poly version or at least one that was larger in diameter. I've heard since that something like this maybe used in ATVs and drag bikes, etc. Anyone know?

At that point I realized my existing driveshaft was WAY too short, and without a plan to get that resolved (what's good here?) I decided to leave the project and come back another day. Who knows maybe that's now - I've been thinking of picking it up again.

Cheers, Jeff

[smickler]

I’m tackling this swap now. Unfortunately after talking to Zionsville it seems they’ve decided to exit producing parts for this, so it’s reboot engineering or custom build. I’m finding exactly what you just said, the E90 bracket and auto brace push the trans too high in the tunnel on stock bushings but do align with the rear chassis holes perfectly. I’ll update later this week if my resolution works. As for the driveshaft, I have a 6 bolt with the rear cv joint. Therefore grafting on the E36 M3 front section or a Z4 front section isn’t an option. Again, I should know more later this week. In the meantime, did you ever come up with a shifter solution other than shortening the stock carrier and selector rod?