Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 153

Thread: Camshaft upgrade on an M62tu?

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    17,072
    My Cars
    SR-71 Blackbird
    Yep, 20 degrees camshaft rotation. Or, 40 degrees crankshaft rotation.



  2. #77
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    4,544
    My Cars
    '97 523i5 - 99' 540iA
    Didn't forget about this, just haven't received my cams yet.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    orlando, fl
    Posts
    738
    My Cars
    2001 BMW 540i 6speed
    sorry to bring back from dead but did anyone get a set lol?
    540i 6spd DUDMD tuned-weekend brute, sounds like an M5 throaty V8 "Vtec-ish" cam noise.

    Hummer- 35inch MT's, Adventure offroad package.



    check out my video gear
    https://kit.co/Lv5multimedia/mobile-videographer-set-up

    Best Oil hands down for bmw
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1441c0abde2552

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    2,730
    My Cars
    two 3's one 5 three 7's
    Quote Originally Posted by vien View Post
    sorry to bring back from dead but did anyone get a set lol?
    I have two sets of 4.6is cams, sent them to Jim for measuring, his results are posted somewhere on the board so you’ll have to search.

  5. #80
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sundance Mesa, NM
    Posts
    19,821
    My Cars
    00 540/6, '16 Highlander
    You'll need to cut deeper pockets in the piston for the intake valves so they won't kiss the pistons.
    Only 1.1mm of clearance on a cold engine not spinning at 5K+ RPM. I wouldn't chance it.
    All the pics from the testing I did are probably gone....thank you Comcast.
    Here's a few. (Not my engine, way too dirty)
    Cam_6.JPG

    DSCN9639.JPG

    Cam_48.JPG

    Cam_51.JPG
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by JimLev; 11-06-2018 at 06:27 PM.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    orlando, fl
    Posts
    738
    My Cars
    2001 BMW 540i 6speed
    well damn then haha, i was planning on doing full rebuild this next year and SC. i guess for our cars we are limited.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    You'll need to cut deeper pockets in the piston for the intake valves so they won't kiss the pistons.
    Only 1.1mm of clearance on a cold engine not spinning at 5K+ RPM. I wouldn't chance it.
    All the pics from the testing I did are probably gone....thank you Comcast.
    Here's a few. (Not my engine, way too dirty)
    Cam_6.JPG

    DSCN9639.JPG

    Cam_48.JPG

    Cam_51.JPG
    540i 6spd DUDMD tuned-weekend brute, sounds like an M5 throaty V8 "Vtec-ish" cam noise.

    Hummer- 35inch MT's, Adventure offroad package.



    check out my video gear
    https://kit.co/Lv5multimedia/mobile-videographer-set-up

    Best Oil hands down for bmw
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1441c0abde2552

  7. #82
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sundance Mesa, NM
    Posts
    19,821
    My Cars
    00 540/6, '16 Highlander
    Cut the intake valve pockets, get the 4.6 cams, more lift and the SC will work even better.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    59
    My Cars
    e46
    So the valve pockets must be deeper on the m62b46 pistons?

  9. #84
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Must be. Couple guys borked their 4.6's recently, would be cool to see one inside and see if the pistons are visibly different to the nekkid I-ballz.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  10. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    the great pacific n.w.
    Posts
    1,216
    My Cars
    540it, 540sedan, 540-6 s
    Time to put this to bed, once and for all.
    4.6 piston has. 040 positive deck height, 4.4 has.020.
    But measuring the valve pocket at TDC shows that the 4.4 has considerably more valve clearance.
    The bigger issue is the valve lift on the spring and valve guide. 4.6 springs are different, and I have not yet measured the spring pocket depth of a 4.4 head to compare.
    4.6. and 4.4 castings and ports are the same from everything I've compared. I was going to have a flow test done to confirm, but with my other project languishing, haven't gotten around to it. 20181115_091158.jpg20181115_091226.jpg
    20181115_091454.jpg20181115_091403.jpg

  11. #86
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Fascinating. So, 4.6 cams maybe possible drop in but need springs too... Interdasting. Needs somebody to do proof of pudding.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  12. #87
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    orlando, fl
    Posts
    738
    My Cars
    2001 BMW 540i 6speed
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Fascinating. So, 4.6 cams maybe possible drop in but need springs too... Interdasting. Needs somebody to do proof of pudding.

    so there maybe new life to this thread lol
    540i 6spd DUDMD tuned-weekend brute, sounds like an M5 throaty V8 "Vtec-ish" cam noise.

    Hummer- 35inch MT's, Adventure offroad package.



    check out my video gear
    https://kit.co/Lv5multimedia/mobile-videographer-set-up

    Best Oil hands down for bmw
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1441c0abde2552

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    the great pacific n.w.
    Posts
    1,216
    My Cars
    540it, 540sedan, 540-6 s
    From all my comparative car experience, I have learned that BMW's are optimized at the factory. Just as putting a non tu intake on a tu motor can result in a low end torque loss, installing larger camshafts without increasing the compression WILL kill low and midrange power.
    That said, go ahead. The 4.4 heads will have to be checked for coil bind and I haven't checked yet. 4.6 springs are different and I presume taller hence the head being a different part number. But there is no magic in the casting to make more power.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    1,534
    My Cars
    '02 540i-6, '97 540i-6
    Some questions...

    Even if one knew these 4.6 cams worked w/o hurting the engine, would it be worth it for an SC engine? Couldn't one just dial-up the SC pressure and do the same thing with a lot less cost? Isn't the limiting factor keeping the supercharged combustion from hurting everything else? Would one have to dial-back the SC pressure with higher-lift cams?

    As someone with an NA engine, I love the experimentation. All very interesting. But are you sure it's worth it in this case?

    Also, how much does the 10.5 compression ratio help the 4.6 output? I know the M60 had 10.5. So many BMW engines have that ratio, but not the M62. Has anyone tried bumping the ratio with the M62? (More interesting to us NA guys, perhaps, but this seems like a good place to ask with all this valve clearance insight.)

  15. #90
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sundance Mesa, NM
    Posts
    19,821
    My Cars
    00 540/6, '16 Highlander
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Fascinating. So, 4.6 cams maybe possible drop in but need springs too... Interdasting. Needs somebody to do proof of pudding.
    Springs won't matter, cam lobe lift is cam lobe lift. Not enough clearance between the valves and pistons with a 4.4 using 4.6 cams.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    5,660
    My Cars
    2005 M3 & 2004 330i
    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Springs won't matter, cam lobe lift is cam lobe lift. Not enough clearance between the valves and pistons with a 4.4 using 4.6 cams.
    Has anyone measured that clearance or is it just conjecture? Based on Wagons ho's measurements above, it doesn't seem like that's actually the case.

  17. #92
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sundance Mesa, NM
    Posts
    19,821
    My Cars
    00 540/6, '16 Highlander
    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    Has anyone measured that clearance or is it just conjecture? Based on Wagons ho's measurements above, it doesn't seem like that's actually the case.
    I've measured the clearance with 4.6 cams from Whiteghost in a 4.4 engine. See post 81 above. 1mm on a cold motor isn't enough clearance.
    Last edited by JimLev; 11-16-2018 at 09:48 PM.

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    59
    My Cars
    e46
    Quote Originally Posted by R Shaffner View Post
    Also, how much does the 10.5 compression ratio help the 4.6 output? I know the M60 had 10.5. So many BMW engines have that ratio, but not the M62. Has anyone tried bumping the ratio with the M62? (More interesting to us NA guys, perhaps, but this seems like a good place to ask with all this valve clearance insight.)

    I wonder that too.

    I'd like to up the compression to the highest the engine can run on premium pump gas, seeing as its easy to get done with the engine already apart.

    Does anyone know the highest compression ratio we can safely run, and how much improvement in hp/torque can be expected?

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    the great pacific n.w.
    Posts
    1,216
    My Cars
    540it, 540sedan, 540-6 s
    I don't make the rules, just report the facts. Piston height is lower on the 4.4. Additionally, the shorter stroke motor should have more clearance for a comparable piston height due to slower piston speed nearing TDC.
    More measurements can be made as I have one of each apart.
    As far as the compression issue, the only combo to compare to is the m60 heads and bigger cams on a m62. Compression is approx. 10.7 and reports are 325-330 hp.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    5,660
    My Cars
    2005 M3 & 2004 330i
    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    I've measured the clearance with 4.6 cams from Whiteghost in a 4.4 engine. See post 81 above. 1mm on a cold motor isn't enough clearance.
    Have you measured the clearance on a 4.6 engine? If a 4.6 truly does have the same or less clearance, it would appear 1mm is indeed enough.

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Arida Zona
    Posts
    30,108
    My Cars
    z3
    I have a 4.6 Ill be able to measure at some point in the future...

    Always seemed to me the cams were just about optimizing the extra displacement, not sure how much theyd help on a 4.4 but happy to look

    Going into my TENTH YEAR of providing high quality reproduction BMW fabrics!

    PRICE CUT on ALL FABRICS
    Offering the best prices on the best quality reproduction fabrics!

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    5,660
    My Cars
    2005 M3 & 2004 330i
    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    I have a 4.6 Ill be able to measure at some point in the future...

    Always seemed to me the cams were just about optimizing the extra displacement, not sure how much theyd help on a 4.4 but happy to look
    Probably more about optimizing for the extra revs than the displacement.

    And assuming you increase the redline at the same time and use the non-TU intake like the 4.6, I imagine they’d actually be quite beneficial. Maybe in the ball park of 320hp instead of 340 like the 4.6

  23. #98
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sundance Mesa, NM
    Posts
    19,821
    My Cars
    00 540/6, '16 Highlander
    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    Have you measured the clearance on a 4.6 engine? If a 4.6 truly does have the same or less clearance, it would appear 1mm is indeed enough.
    No, as I only had a 4.4 to play with. I'd expect a 4.6 would have about 3mm clearance from the open valve to the piston valve pocket.
    You also need to take into consideration thermal expansion as well as the speed the parts are moving at.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    5,660
    My Cars
    2005 M3 & 2004 330i
    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    No, as I only had a 4.4 to play with. I'd expect a 4.6 would have about 3mm clearance from the open valve to the piston valve pocket.
    You also need to take into consideration thermal expansion as well as the speed the parts are moving at.
    The clearance would probably increase with thermal expansion unless the mix of metals is such that things that reduce clearance expand more than everything else.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Lansdale, Pa
    Posts
    7,043
    My Cars
    98 540 6, SC'ed, 16psi
    Cam timing and vanos play in the clearance calculation as well. Is lobe centerline the same in the 4.6 vs 4.4 cams?
    98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •