Camshaft upgrade on an M62tu?

[auaq]

To be on the safe side, measure the cam journal diameter to make sure they do fit. I'm sure they do but ..... you know the drill.

Also, this isn't the accurate method of measuring max lift, but if one could measure the two perpendicular diameters of the cam lobe profile and the difference of it should roughly give one an idea of max lift number. Another way is if one could fit a zeroed-in dial indicator on the profile and turn the cam over could also give a rough estimate on the lift. One thing to keep in mind is that we've got hydraulic valve lash adjustment and so the valves may appear to open fully but that may not be true. If one could put an epoxy in that lifter so as to compress it and to be able to get the true max lift would be great.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, not to compress it otherwise you're back to square one .....

[JimLev]

I'll be using a dial indicator.
Ah, epoxy solid lifters.
I don't remember seeing an easy way to open up these lifters like lifters on some other engines. I'll check them out again when I head into the man cave later today.

- - - Updated - - -

^ the best info on stock M62B44TU indeed. From the specs on other M60/2 cams (pre vanos engines) I'd say that those figures explain how a 290hp engine kept making 290hp after VANOS were fitted.

we're in the fringes of a berakthru

Anyway, the first thing to do to unleash the power on M6244TU is remove/replace the restrictive intake, then move on to improve exhaust flow somehow (deCATing if possible)

Then a good "recipe" tune, then maybe cams and other stuff that goes with it (like cleaning up the heads, pocket port the exhaust and blend a little the CNC part with the cast part in the intake part, without going ballistic) and a tailored tune. (Of course I'd try to flash a 4.6is file on the stock 4.4 vanos DME first... I'll try that as soon as I have it figured out)

I know a guy that has a set of VAC stage 1 heads, he wanted big bucks for them. So now we're dumping more money into the car than it's worth....HP and torque, love it.
Go big or go home! (thanks for the saying Aryana)

[auaq]

I would think those lifters are the same across many BMW engines including the M62 from this site. Check it out:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...7#post14251457

[whiteghost1]

- presumably that is advertised duration, not at 0.050" (or 0.5mm) lift?
Not sure, there was no mention of the duration at the standard measurement taken at 0.050 lift.
If the cams weren't in my engine I would be able to measure that.

- is the lift at the cam or at the valve?
probably the cam lobe, however the valve should be close if the lifters done compress much.

- any IO/IC/EO/EC timing specs?
No, that would probably be too difficult for me to measure with the cams in the engine, especially on a vanos motor.

- any idea of the lobe center?
Lobe separation angle, No
I might be able to take an approximate measurement, maybe.

Any chance that you have the valve->piston clearance for the intake & exhaust at TDC? I wish there was someone local which I could to a clearance mock up with plastercine, so it is not a guess. At least having a stock M62tu piston/valve clearance baseline, would at least give us an idea how much is available to go bigger.

[auaq]

Yeah, we need to know the cam/crank degrees when the valves open and close, and the position of the pistons too.

[JimLev]

I would think those lifters are the same across many BMW engines including the M62 from this site. Check it out:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...7#post14251457

Auaq, good find, those are the lifters. I haven't checked out the p/n's yet but they look exactly the same.
I got these from a 99 540tu engine that had a rod thru the side of the block.



- - - Updated - - -

Any chance that you have the valve->piston clearance for the intake & exhaust at TDC? I wish there was someone local which I could to a clearance mock up with plastercine, so it is not a guess. At least having a stock M62tu piston/valve clearance baseline, would at least give us an idea how much is available to go bigger.

Can't get that on my engine, the heads are on. I may bea able to get that info from a non vanos that I helped the owner strip a few months ago. Pretty sure he still has the engine.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, we need to know the cam/crank degrees when the valves open and close, and the position of the pistons too.

So why is an I6 guy so interested in a V8. Oh wait, he really want those two missing cylinders.
As much as I would like to get that info my engine is too much back together to get that.

Cam journal specs should be in Bentleys or TIS.

Total lobe lift is 0.3525" as close to measuring it on both intake cams, this is almost 9mm.
I couldn't read the exhaust lobes, no good place to anchor the dial indicator base to.
Also had trouble trying the read the intake duration which is suppose to be 236, I was getting 189.5 deg.

[philly98540]

What are you mad cam scientists up to? Looks like fun. Only 189 degrees of crank rotation showing lift at the cam lobe. Hmmm? Cant be right. The lifters dont squish much at all at engine rpm, so you get pretty much the same lift at the valve on these modern ohv style heads. No rockers and the cam is in alighnment with the valve stem. Direct action pretty much.

[JimLev]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to figure out, doesn't seem right.
I did it 3 times. Got the same reading every time. I must be missing something or the info I read was wrong, but I doubt it as 236 does sound like a proper duration.

Not to change gears, you bought a PWM fan controller, right? What was it? I'm trying to help out another guy that wants one.

[philly98540]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADIATOR-FAN...-/251485739357 Heres the one I used. Still works perfect. Looks like he is using my pics on his add. Not much else out there that I could find with these specs.

[JimLev]

Thanks for the PWM info.

[auaq]

So why is an I6 guy so interested in a V8. Oh wait, he really want those two missing cylinders.
As much as I would like to get that info my engine is too much back together to get that.

Cause I'm just curious, that's all.

*still chanting ... you know the drill*

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, I can't wait to do something like this on my mine. Once I get to do the Vanos seals, I'll also try to get similar information on m54b30 cams.

[whiteghost1]

Thanks a lot for taking the time & contributing with actual data Jim, really appreciated. As soon as I pick up a set of Alpina B10 cams I'll be able to contribute back the same. I'm going to get my cams plotted/measured professionally, like I did for my m30b35 so there is no guessing on my part.

[m5james]

http://www.bavengine.com/engine.html rebuilt my engine and I went w/ the Performance Option that regrinds the cams, ported and polished heads, etc. I've dyno'd the car and have verified I've gotten more power due to their mods.

If you're looking to get more power out of your BMW, then upgrade to our Performance Option and increase your horsepower by 20%. This option provides a substantial increase in performance while preserving the 5 year warranty, factory longevity, and emission standards. The upgrade includes flow-tested CNC cylinder head porting & hand polishing, Bavarian Performance camshaft, MaxSil pistons with Tefcote, Sealed Power piston rings, and precision balancing. Proprietary Bavarian CNC porting provides optimized turbulence, maximum air flow and precision consistency between ports.

[whiteghost1]

^^^ I thought those guys stopped doing the performance build options 1-2 years back?

[m5james]

Copy and paste directly from the bottom RH corner of their webpage. The only thing I've heard years ago is that they now contract out the work, but it's still being done nevertheless.

[geargrinder]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADIATOR-FAN...-/251485739357 Heres the one I used. Still works perfect. Looks like he is using my pics on his add. Not much else out there that I could find with these specs.

I also am interested in this. Looks like Jims setup but somebody else has done the housing bit for you (minus the override switch which should be easy enough to add) I have the capability to homebrew like Jim but need to stop overloading my project plate and should buy-in more stuff like this.

Only question is what fans I want use... might chase down the Summit/Jegs options other guys have had luck with...

[philly98540]

I also am interested in this. Looks like Jims setup but somebody else has done the housing bit for you (minus the override switch which should be easy enough to add) I have the capability to homebrew like Jim but need to stop overloading my project plate and should buy-in more stuff like this.

Only question is what fans I want use... might chase down the Summit/Jegs options other guys have had luck with...

I don't want to side track this thread too much, but here is my install from the old Roadfly hood (sniff sniff): http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/131...PWM-controller I used the Summit curved fan.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, that's what I was trying to figure out, doesn't seem right.
I did it 3 times. Got the same reading every time. I must be missing something or the info I read was wrong, but I doubt it as 236 does sound like a proper duration.

I wonder if the Vanos has that much of an impact that they can remove so much duration and still get performance. Maybe that combined with the intake helps expain some of the top end (and low end) differences between the motors torque and power outputs. Seems too drastic of a drop to me though. Only 189 deg. - No way...?

[geargrinder]

I don't want to side track this thread too much, but here is my install from the old Roadfly hood (sniff sniff): http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/131...PWM-controller I used the Summit curved fan.

Cool. Unfort the pix linx don't work w/o a RF account and I don't have one... sounds interesting/cool without the pix. I've been on the fence looking at the guys who just use an all new metal shround and the guys who do an OEM-adaptation like yours.

[JimLev]

Cool. Unfort the pix linx don't work w/o a RF account and I don't have one... sounds interesting/cool without the pix. I've been on the fence looking at the guys who just use an all new metal shround and the guys who do an OEM-adaptation like yours.

Sign up on RF, it only takes a few seconds. Good pics along with some of a Ferrari BBQ I went to last year and some brews that you won't find around these parts.
I used a Flex-a-Lite Slimline 116 fan, only draws 10 amps max, it never runs at more that maybe 1/3 speed even on a hot summer day.

I'll try the duration thing again. This time I'll use a degree wheel on the crank.
Yesterday I was just counting how many teeth of the cam gear from when the lobe started pushing on the lifter to when is stopped. Then used that to figure the duration.

- - - Updated - - -


OK, some new readings and info.
My intake cam duration reading were wrong, I failed to see the cam rotating on its own due to the vanos unit. The open valves pushed the lobes while the chain driven gear wasn't rotating. That's what messed me up.

So a few min ago I checked the exhaust cam duration, no vanos unit on this cam to screw me up.
The published duration is 228°, I read 225° so with the slop in my timing wheel connection to the ratchet and extension I would say the published 228° is correct.
Now to figure out how to lock the intake cam vanos so I can get a good reading.

[philly98540]

Aha, the damn vanos strikes again! Makes sense. Not sure how to lock it. No vanos on mine. Maybe put some kind of indexing tape on the cam itself and measure how much it rotates on that then divide by two?

[auaq]

Heheh - deleted my earlier post.

I think if the intake cam can be turned and locked at full retarded position shouldn't give any erroneous readings.

[JimLev]

I'm giving up, got to get this thing back together, it's been apart since mid Dec.
I measured the duration from close to fully open, that was ~120 deg. Then the cam rotated on its own because of the other valves that were pushing on their lobes.
Auag, I thought of that but I would have to hold the wrench on the cam back at the rear holding spot while turning the engine over at the front of the crank. Arms aren't that long.

[auaq]

No volunteers?

Heheh - Well, you need to roll. No problem. Maybe somebody else need to take on and find IO/IC/EO/EC.

[granlund]

Here are the BMW published specs for the M6x cams. I don't know the VANOS advance for the TU cams though.

	Intake		BTDC	ABDC	Exhaust		BBDC	ATDC
	Duration	Lift	Open	Close	Duration	Lift	Open	Close	Overlap
M60	246	9.7	14	52	242	9.4	48	14	28
M62B44	238	9	8	50	228	9	42	6	14
M62B35	238	9	12	46	228	9	42	6	18
M62B44tu	238	9	-4	62	228	9	38	10	6
M62B35tu	238	9	-4	62	228	9	31	17	13

[JimLev]

Cool, thanks.
The vanos will retard or advance the cam timing (in relation to the crank) +/- 20 deg.