Ebay Supercharger kits

[COOPERDB]

After re-reading this thread --- I always thought that Eaton SuperChargers were based out of

Cleveland, Ohio ---


http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsS...gers/index.htm


Would someone please correct me as to the fact that they are made in germany ---

Thank-You for your time ---

[geargrinder]

That's an answer to a question I didn't ask. All I can make of this is he's desperately trying to justify wasting $5,000 on an inferior item by trying to con us into buying one.

I think thats kinda out of line - i havent seen a single hint of an attempt to convince anybody to jump in with him. Honestly James seems like he just wants to try something different and is willing to roll the dice. He's more or less said he's willing to be the test subject on one of these. Im as skeptical as anybody of the kit quality esp after seeing the manual pix but AFAICT James is being straight up with everybody here. Does he want it to work out and not be a pile of junk? Im sure he does. But nothing suggests to me hes trying to get others onboard or shill for the seller at this point.

[AquilaBMW]

I would find it amazing if M5James was able to "con" adults into buy a so-called "inferior" product considering all the disclosure on this thread. I am with Geargrinder on this - I don't get that impression from his posts. I also share Bin's amazing at M5James leap of faith with this guy.

What I seem to see here though is the guy in Germany is still going through development of this kit and customers like M5James are helping to fund the development. The Seller seems to keep improving things - which in itself is not the worst thing. With time and of course "money", I am sure he can come up with a great system. I do wonder though why other companies have not attempted to use this style Super Charger - are there obstacles to overcome?

I am a n00b at all this, but you would think if there was system that could develop power significantly sooner there would be other people making kits already...

[Binjammin]

While I am amazed at James' leap of faith, in the end I'm hoping it all works out because it would be great to see this on the market. I personally don't have high hopes of it, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want it. I also don't see James trying to sell anything.

[cody3]

I think thats kinda out of line - i havent seen a single hint of an attempt to convince anybody to jump in with him. Honestly James seems like he just wants to try something different and is willing to roll the dice. He's more or less said he's willing to be the test subject on one of these. Im as skeptical as anybody of the kit quality esp after seeing the manual pix but AFAICT James is being straight up with everybody here. Does he want it to work out and not be a pile of junk? Im sure he does. But nothing suggests to me hes trying to get others onboard or shill for the seller at this point.

I hope it works for him, and that he details the total cost once it's running without issues, otherwise we won't know whether this setup is worth trying vs the other proven options. I'll also be interested in how hard it is to tune it as software is the main cost in making this upgrade reliable for daily and long term usage. In the end I'd be surprised if it wasn't more expensive than one of the proven kits available today.

[m5james]

are you sure that's a real eaton M112 supercharger? the casting is totally different.

for realistic boost on a M62, I don't think you'll find any difference with roots vs centrifugal. his claimed hp is about same as VF kit. with the recent sale, the VF kit was $780 more. why wouldn't you just jump on a proven setup??? at best the performance is the same, reliability will be a nightmare, resale value nill.

at best you'll waste a bunch of time, get lots of headaches, and maybe get your money back. this is all risk and no gain.

Think being the key word there. The guts of the M112 is the same...blades, gearing, etc but the cases change based on inlet design, snout placement, etc. My Harley F150 (2 door Ford Lightning) came w/ an Eaton M112, but the snout is on the other side and the inlet is in a completely different location. There is even a company that does a lot of porting and polishing work called Steigmeyer that sells a redesigned blades kit that emulates the M122 into the M112 housing, making it about as close to a twin screw as possible, short of the fact that the blades spin the wrong direction.

The difference between a roots and centrifugal is wildly different!! Hell, you can even say the same going from a roots to a twin screw, just like I did in my Harley. A roots/TS is INSTANT power on the bottom, but admittedly falls off on higher RPM's. A centrifugal is basically a gear driven turbo in that it's not as much on the bottom end and all power on the topend. This is just my thinking, but going to redline on a normal engine is hard enough on it as is, using a centrifugal means your getting the most boost when the engine is almost spinning at it's hardest. When VF and Dinan designed their kits, it was due to ease of installation (just like it's being mentioned in the video link below) because it gets mounted off to the side just like an alternator, AC compressor, etc. A roots off the line will take a centrifugal, and while the centrifugal will catch up on the top end, I'll have already beaten most off the line and at the stoplights, which is how most people do their racing anyways

I'm not going to bite your head off here, but this is one of those situations where you should know what you're talking about before putting in your .02 and pros and cons by simply just comparing the final HP numbers. I remember the day my buddy bought his E36 M3 and I raced him in my E34 M5. Driving his car, it seems SOO much faster, but ultimately when we raced each other, I walked his ...Roots vs Centrifugal was just like my E34 M5 vs his E36 M3...completely different power delivery. This is a good video explaining the differences - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVyweyoPfE

You ASSUME reliability will be a nightmare (based off what facts, not uneducated opinions), headaches are of my own choice (don't even ask me about what I'm dealing w/ in regards to my Harley F150 and the $13k I spend on an engine swap, bigger supercharger and upgrades all around...on a Ford no less...but I'm still doing it) and resale...you mean on an SUV that I paid $8000?! Who cares at that point, if the engine and/or trans pops, it's going to get an LSx swapped into it anyways...THAT will be the epitome of headaches, but I still wanna do it. The engine swap alone in my 740iL cost in the neighborhood of $14,000 after it was all said and done...trust me when I tell you, I'm not going to be able to goto CL and see what people are selling their 740iL's for and then tack on another $14k just because I've got a new engine in my car. I don't understand why you're so bent outta shape about how I spend my money...

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The psi will be the same, and even the total cfm at that psi will probably be similar, but the roots blower should hit full boost significantly sooner than the cf. The cf will make peak psi at higher rpm. Yes, it will still be making boost before the nosebleed section of the tach, but not on the same scale as the roots.

^ this is why I want a roots/twin screw.

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Why are you putting forth so much effort vouching for this guy?

It's basically due to lack of options...he's the only one who's actually produced a roots kit that is available for sale vs just talk about it. That doesn't mean I have 100% faith in this guy by any means, but at the same time, he's done 95% of the work for me, using a proven SC in itself, and then adapted it to our cars. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he's improving it, coming out w/ his third version just recently, so that's encouraging. Trust me, if there was a second person doing something to make a roots/twin screw available for us, the $4200 shipped I spent (mind you, he's sending me provisions so that it'll be easily swappable to my non-VANOS 740iL6 and VANOS X5), I'd be pitting two kit producers against each other to prove who was worthy of my dollar. At the end of the day, imperfect as his kit may be, he's won my money after offering me a heavy discount and including lots of extra pieces, so all I've gotta do it finish up the details...I don't feel like it's that bad of a deal really.

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That's an answer to a question I didn't ask. All I can make of this is he's desperately trying to justify wasting $5,000 on an inferior item by trying to con us into buying one.

See my post above. Not only did I not spend that much, but how does me spending MY own money influence what you do? Your statement just reminded me of a song I heard recently that went something along the lines of "what you eat doesn't make me " LOL. I'm doing this because my Harley F150 came w/ the same supercharger, I KNOW firsthand what it's capable of and now someone has come up w/ a kit and adapted a known supercharger that is used on various vehicles and now can be used on our cars. At the end of the day, even if I spend another $1000 into perfecting his kit, it'll ultimately make more power and provide a better powerband than the centrifugal options available now. BMW's themselves aren't even perfect vehicles, yet people pay MSRP on them all day long and then come to forums like this to fix issues that a billion dollar company couldn't even get right. I've spent a single paycheck on something that'll make ME happy and I'm not coning anyone because it's not like I'm asking you guys to buy one w/ me on a group buy here!! If anything the ONLY thing I'm doing to you is giving you reading material and making you uncomfortable because you're afraid to step outside the box.

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I hope it works for him, and that he details the total cost once it's running without issues, otherwise we won't know whether this setup is worth trying vs the other proven options. I'll also be interested in how hard it is to tune it as software is the main cost in making this upgrade reliable for daily and long term usage. In the end I'd be surprised if it wasn't more expensive than one of the proven kits available today.

See above about even if I spend $1000 in fixing things.

After re-reading this thread --- I always thought that Eaton SuperChargers were based out of

Cleveland, Ohio ---


http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsS...gers/index.htm


Would someone please correct me as to the fact that they are made in germany ---

Thank-You for your time ---

That I don't know. I have the Eaton I removed from my Harley since I upgraded to a Kenne Bell twin screw, so I'll have to look at it and see if there's any stampings on the case.

I just saw you're in Medina. Once I get the kit, maybe I can run out your way. I used to live in Kirkland off 124th before moving to Everett/Marysville to be closer to Boeing where I work.

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I think thats kinda out of line - i havent seen a single hint of an attempt to convince anybody to jump in with him. Honestly James seems like he just wants to try something different and is willing to roll the dice. He's more or less said he's willing to be the test subject on one of these. Im as skeptical as anybody of the kit quality esp after seeing the manual pix but AFAICT James is being straight up with everybody here. Does he want it to work out and not be a pile of junk? Im sure he does. But nothing suggests to me hes trying to get others onboard or shill for the seller at this point.

Oh, don't get me wrong...I'm skeptical as all hell lol. I think that guys instructions were garbage at best, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his pics in those instructions are super old because everything in his current eBay ads are completely different, emails back and forth have verified the many changes he's made, then most recently w/ the Stage 6 he's created. I'm still not keen on the RRFPR for fuel delivery (which has remained the same through each of his 3 revisions), but thankfully tuning options for BMW's has opened up over the years so that I can address that when the time comes. Dima (DUDMD here on these forums) is the prior owner of my X5, so I've already got his tuning software installed into my X5, so I'll be working w/ him more down the road after I get this kit installed, the E39 M5 fuel pump (my own choice since that's what VF/Dinan do), wideband (my own sense of security) and then eventually VF injectors once Dima feels he can tune that way, ultimately in an attempt to delete the RRFPR all together.

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I would find it amazing if M5James was able to "con" adults into buy a so-called "inferior" product considering all the disclosure on this thread. I am with Geargrinder on this - I don't get that impression from his posts. I also share Bin's amazing at M5James leap of faith with this guy.

What I seem to see here though is the guy in Germany is still going through development of this kit and customers like M5James are helping to fund the development. The Seller seems to keep improving things - which in itself is not the worst thing. With time and of course "money", I am sure he can come up with a great system. I do wonder though why other companies have not attempted to use this style Super Charger - are there obstacles to overcome?

I am a n00b at all this, but you would think if there was system that could develop power significantly sooner there would be other people making kits already...

Come to the darkside, we have better cookies and ;-) What you're calling a leap of faith, I call the need for more power! As if a 600+hp pickup truck isn't enough, now I'm trying to get more power out of an SUV that I'm sure will grenade the trans in no time. Gotta pay to play. What I would like to do is get this guys SC kit perfected, then if/when I grenade the engine and/or transmission in the X5 (which will then get an LSx swap, which I wish I would have done in my 740iL), I'll swap the kit into my 740iL that is in the middle of a 6spd swap and already has a rebuilt "Performance Option" engine built by www.bavengine.com

I agree that this guy is improving each time. It's hard to understand him at times since we talk through Google Translate and not everything is cut and dry, so I'm sure he gets sick of my questions and then clarification of his replies, but I'm going to continue doing so until I feel comfortable now that I'm a paying customer. I think it was ESS that's coming out w/ an Eaton based SC for the N62 engine, but they're using the same Eaton from another Jaguar which is a 5.0 engine and then adapting it to our cars. If it's good enough for ESS (tongue in cheek), it's good enough for me

Agreed...someone has to bite the bullet, this guy has and I guess I have as well because I'm buying into it. I found threads of his first productions kits on European forums from 2 years ago (once again using Google Translate) and all the flack he got, then I see it now and notice the improvements he's made. I guess I can compare it to what I've seen over the years in regards to changes here on the 787 program that I'm on. Things have improved every single day, and it's still not perfect, yet companies are still paying $211-$288 million for these airplanes. Just call me the ANA of this guys SC kit, someones gotta take the leap of faith

[AquilaBMW]

While I am amazed at James' leap of faith, in the end I'm hoping it all works out because it would be great to see this on the market. I personally don't have high hopes of it, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want it. I also don't see James trying to sell anything.

I concur with that statement. I can't say much more since I am a total n00b at this stuff.

A roots is INSTANT power on the bottom, but admittedly falls off on higher RPM's. A centrifugal is basically a gear driven turbo in that it's not as much on the bottom end and all power on the topend. This is just my thinking, but going to redline on a normal engine is hard enough on it as is, using a centrifugal means your getting the most boost when the engine is almost spinning at it's hardest. When VF and Dinan designed their kits, it was due to ease of installation (just like it's being mentioned in the video link below) because it gets mounted off to the side just like an alternator, AC compressor, etc. A roots off the line will take a centrifugal, and while the centrifugal will catch up on the top end, I'll have already beaten most off the line and at the stoplights, which is how most people do their racing anyways

This right here is what has caught my attention. That power band. I have spent sometime researching the whole S/C thing and while I am a n00b at this whole forced induction mumbo jumbo, some basics still registered with my n00b brain. When looking into S/C, my concerns was always that the peak power or close to it seemed to always be achieved at like 4000 RPM, or on the edge of Redline - I think VF was at like 5500 RPM. I don't think I have ever had my current car at 5500 RPM EVER! How many times will my daily driver or even my weekend warrior see that RPM range ?!?!? I drive cross country now and then and even on my trip from SFO to Seattle I would be at 100 MPH at around 3500 RPM - it's not like I had a race track in front of me to go faster.

I did speak to VF and others about this (Thank GearG), and I later found out according to VF's charts that power starts to come on around 2800 RPM, reportedly you would gain about 50 Ibs of torque in that range. But still, 2800 RPM on the freeway equates to close to 80 MPH.... so unless every CHP officer is in vacation in San Luis Obispo, I won't be going that much faster. I like the idea that the roots brings the power on from the low end - so what if it starts to loose it at the top end. Shouldn't matter much in a daily driver.

[m5james]

I've owned vehicles w/ big engines, single turbo, twin turbo and now SC'd. While SC'ing is probably the most inefficient route to go for forced induction, the power delivery is intoxicating. I DD my Harley when it's not raining (it's USELESS in the rain lol) and I love that I can be doscile while driving it, but a 1/4" of throttle gives me a nice whine, WOT and the tail is out like no ones business while the SC is literally SCREAMING. My engine is FAR from stock though.

Mind you, none of these are my truck, just an example a stock engine w/ stock pulleys. You can't really hear the SC in this compared to mine now, but tell me this doesn't sound fun - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGgGKv6hxIYd I've got the same SC, intake plenum but I've running an 8# lower while this guy is only running a 4# LOWER - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x_eOPpuJQ0 Not sure what engine or pulley setups he's running, but this sounds about right - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiWvhWC11BQ Ignore the stupid music, but this is the guy who made my engine, for which I have the exact same one, just using a KB2.3 instead of a Whipple2.3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxtAedDdr9E Ignore the crap music again, but who doesn't like compilations - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRnXeD-rXLM I'll never be able to do all of this in an AWD BMW X5, but it's pretty awesome what that little Eaton can do to a simple Ford Expedition motor w/ nothing more than a forged crank that separates it from a grocery getter.

I've spoken to VF as well. I lost interest in them when they decided that didn't wanna continue development into a Stage II kit that would have included an intercooler and upped the boost from 6psi to 8psi. Before my 740iL I owned a Toyota Tacome Pre-Runner (2WD) w/ the 3.4l V6 that I supercharged w/ the TRD kit that was made available. $3000 and it was plagued w/ issues...and this was a Toyota licensed product no less!! It has terrible heat soak issues, causing the engine to ping and then the computer would pull timing. Eventually someone made a kit that included a 7th injector that sprayed fuel into the intake tube (terrible idea because overtime people found out the fuel was eating the Teflon coating off the blades) but it did succeed in stopping the pinging, but not the heatsoak. Remembering all of this, then seeing VF stop development is why I was never convidenced to buy their kit, and there was no way in hell I was going to pay $$Dinan$$'s prices for an SC that cost as much as an ENTIRE engine.

Fast forward to today w/ this eBay kit...it's intercooled, using a proven SC that's been used on countless other vehicles, I've read on Jaguar forums making upwards of 550+hp from their 4.0l and 4.2l engines, so clearly the SC isn't the issue here. While the naysayers are preaching about using "proven" setups via VF/Dinan, the SC I'm going to install has been proven well before this guy came up with the idea of using it on our engines, I've already said I see the flaws and room for improvement in the eBay kit, but I still have confidence in the SC in itself, so that's why I'm here taking my leap of faith.

[AquilaBMW]

James - I could have sworn DINAN was able to get 8 - 9 psi out of their S/C kit when they had it for sale. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

I honestly don't see anything on the market that could be considered "cheap" as far as forced induction goes. It really is one of those things where you have to pay to play. I am looking forward to your progress on this kit. To be honest, the Seller seems to be making progress - aesthetically, he seems to be on the right path. Like anything else, time will bring better results. Maybe we should connect the Seller to DUDMD and they can develop a tune for this thing :-)

[geargrinder]

Oh, don't get me wrong...I'm skeptical as all hell lol. I think that guys instructions were garbage at best, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his pics in those instructions are super old because everything in his current eBay ads are completely different, emails back and forth have verified the many changes he's made, then most recently w/ the Stage 6 he's created. I'm still not keen on the RRFPR for fuel delivery (which has remained the same through each of his 3 revisions), but thankfully tuning options for BMW's has opened up over the years so that I can address that when the time comes. Dima (DUDMD here on these forums) is the prior owner of my X5, so I've already got his tuning software installed into my X5, so I'll be working w/ him more down the road after I get this kit installed, the E39 M5 fuel pump (my own choice since that's what VF/Dinan do), wideband (my own sense of security) and then eventually VF injectors once Dima feels he can tune that way, ultimately in an attempt to delete the RRFPR all together.

Yeah your attitude on this has been clear to me from the start which is why I have no idea why Liquidity jumped on you. If you have Dimitry handy to do a tune for this and potentially replace the FPR kludge, that's a bonus. I suspect you might replace some of the guys hardware too but you have already said you're fully ready to do that. Not many people are willing to roll the dice with eyes open and take whatever comes, so I guess it's hard for guys to understand doing that. It's like the 'civilians' whose brainz f@rt and short out when they hear I manual swapped my wagon... they just go 'but why... would.. you .....'

James - I could have sworn DINAN was able to get 8 - 9 psi out of their S/C kit when they had it for sale. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

I don't recall PSI (and I think I've warned before about equating PSI with actual power produced... it's all about the CFM FLOW not PSI...) but I will say the Dinan kits do pull stronger dynos than the VF's. That could only be down to TB hardware, or, tuning, as all the rest is virtually the same I think...

[Binjammin]

I concur with that statement. I can't say much more since I am a total n00b at this stuff.





This right here is what has caught my attention. That power band. I have spent sometime researching the whole S/C thing and while I am a n00b at this whole forced induction mumbo jumbo, some basics still registered with my n00b brain. When looking into S/C, my concerns was always that the peak power or close to it seemed to always be achieved at like 4000 RPM, or on the edge of Redline - I think VF was at like 5500 RPM. I don't think I have ever had my current car at 5500 RPM EVER! How many times will my daily driver or even my weekend warrior see that RPM range ?!?!? I drive cross country now and then and even on my trip from SFO to Seattle I would be at 100 MPH at around 3500 RPM - it's not like I had a race track in front of me to go faster.

I did speak to VF and others about this (Thank GearG), and I later found out according to VF's charts that power starts to come on around 2800 RPM, reportedly you would gain about 50 Ibs of torque in that range. But still, 2800 RPM on the freeway equates to close to 80 MPH.... so unless every CHP officer is in vacation in San Luis Obispo, I won't be going that much faster. I like the idea that the roots brings the power on from the low end - so what if it starts to loose it at the top end. Shouldn't matter much in a daily driver.

There's really not a whole lot to it on the differences between them all, they're all basically just air compressors, they just differ in how they compress the air. A twin screw is literally two big screws that sit next to each other, and as they turn they move the air. A Eaton blower has two helical cut rotors that basically work like gears, they scoop air and throw it into the engine. A centrifugal is like half a turbo, with a gear driven turbine. The first two have much larger mechanisms for moving air, and they turn at a lower speed than a centri. The trade off is that at higher rpm they move less air, because they can't spin as fast and because of heating inefficiencies. A centri needs a lot more rpm to spin, which is why it makes peak power at higher engine rpm.

So far as Dinan getting more PSI? Psi isn't really a measure of power or airflow, so direct comparison isn't possible, but if you have a system that makes 6psi in stock configuration, if you install a smaller pulley on it the blower will spin faster, thus making more psi. Think of that like the gears on a 10 speed bike: When you have the chain on the largest crank gear, and you have the rear set to like... the largest gear... changing down to smaller and smaller gears will allow you to travel faster for the same work done, same with the crank pulley driving the supercharger.

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Point being that Dinan could have machined a smaller diameter pulley to create more psi.

[geargrinder]

yeah - F/I n00bz get so obsessed by PSI... if you want more PSI, toss a restrictor plate on and it'll go through the roof! but we really want flow, not 'PSI'...

[AquilaBMW]

Thanks guys... appreciate the info. And JC - PSI is all we n00bs have to go on initially mang! LOL! I got more psi than you - hah!

[Binjammin]

yeah - F/I n00bz get so obsessed by PSI... if you want more PSI, toss a restrictor plate on and it'll go through the roof! but we really want flow, not 'PSI'...

I try to explain it to people like trying to inflate a balloon with a hole on the other end. You can make the holes larger and it will never inflate the balloon, but that doesn't mean you aren't moving a lot of air. You can make the hole smaller, and the balloon may inflate, but that doesn't mean you're moving any air. PSI is the equivalent of wasting energy inflating the balloon.

[Liquidity]

Every post from m5james is a case file propping this guy up. If it's not an attempt to justify the purchase, is it because they're affiliated? What other purpose does it serve to convince anyone that all of the terrible cobbled-together pieces in this kit should be over-looked or replaced at your own cost? Or what about the kit not even existing until you give him $5,000 so he can then buy the parts?

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Whether anyone feels my line of questioning or accusations are out of line really doesn't change that something here smells very fishy to me.

[geargrinder]

"Case file propping the guy up?" Did you miss your meds today? If James is shilling for the guy, why would he frequently and very directly admit and discuss the short-comings? He's the guy who provided the install file doc, and immediately talked like the rest of us about how some of the parts look like crap and how he hopes the guys claims about them being replaced by now are true..., and if not, that he'll be redoing them himself. He has never ever once made the slightest suggestion that anybody else jump on the bandwagon. Of course he hopes he can "justify the purchase" afterwards. I hope he can too, although I fear it is not likely. You are really stretching in attacking him over and over now, but suffice it to say, it's clear you are in the extreme minority here.

[maddoggyusa]

I admit I don't know the most about supercharging... mainly because I've been riding motorcycles for 20+ years and my CBR runs 10.3 bone stock in a 1/4 mile. So all these cars (including your 600hp truck) are slow to me.

I wish you the best of luck but I really wish this kit was more like $3000 to make it more worth all the risk.

[740il97g]

Good luck with the kit. I've seen a few videos of the guys kit in action. I could care less how you spend your money it's your money. But I do want to increase the power of my 740il. Post pictures, videos of what comes of this project. Don't forget Dyno results. I'm subscribed.

[BlueCrabMafia]

A roots supercharger is the way to go for the E38. They make torque down low in the RPM band (almost from zero rpm's) and torque is what's going to move these pigs. You want an autobahn missile, use VF's kit. You want something to tear a Mustang a new butthole from a dig, you need a roots supercharger. There is a reason that OEM supercharged engines use roots blowers......Mustang Cobra, F-150 Lightning, Pontiac Grand Prix, Corvette, Cadillac V series, Jaguar, etc all use roots blowers. To be honest, I can't even think of one OEM setup that uses a centrifugal blower.

m5james, again if you need any help I'll gladly provide any that I can. I don't see this as competition to my kit, but as another option for the E38 guys. I love that you're taking the leap of faith on this. I really do hope it works out for you without costing you a ton of money. I know some of the issues you are up against, but you are at least starting with a "functioning" kit and not starting from zero.

Every post from m5james is a case file propping this guy up. If it's not an attempt to justify the purchase, is it because they're affiliated? What other purpose does it serve to convince anyone that all of the terrible cobbled-together pieces in this kit should be over-looked or replaced at your own cost? Or what about the kit not even existing until you give him $5,000 so he can then buy the parts?

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Whether anyone feels my line of questioning or accusations are out of line really doesn't change that something here smells very fishy to me.

You need to lighten up dude, seriously. First you were riding my jock in the thread about my kit and now you're in here starting the same garbage. Why is it guys like you who have no skin in the game are constantly arm chair quarterbacking? Are you jealous or something? Give it a rest man and go look for aliens or something because there are no conspiracy's here.

[geargrinder]

why is it guys like you who have no skin in the game are constantly arm chair quarterbacking? Are you jealous or something? Give it a rest man and go look for aliens or something because there are no conspiracy's here.

lol. +1000

[AquilaBMW]

Every post from m5james is a case file propping this guy up. If it's not an attempt to justify the purchase, is it because they're affiliated? What other purpose does it serve to convince anyone that all of the terrible cobbled-together pieces in this kit should be over-looked or replaced at your own cost? Or what about the kit not even existing until you give him $5,000 so he can then buy the parts?

Whether anyone feels my line of questioning or accusations are out of line really doesn't change that something here smells very fishy to me.

I tell you what mate, as a former Biz. Dev person, if James were "allegedly" trying to help me sell my product, I would have taken it back from him and ask him to never comment on my product again. He hasn't exactly been trying to convince us of the excellence of this kit. In actually, I think he has had some of us wondering when he bumped his head to take on this leap of faith considering all the obstacles he has encountered - even before getting a working unit installed.

As someone who has witnessed and been involved in a product development cycle - from inception to completion which included prototyping, I can see why he would take the risk on something like this. He obviously sees the end merit of such a system and would like to get one. We did not think it was possible to go across the country in hours till the first Constellation crossed the Ocean.

As a small private manufacturer, I can see why he would use customers' money to further develop the product. Not saying it's the best way, but it's not the first time that has been done. I see his most recent pictures and I for one commend the guy for taking a shot at it. I commend James, even though I think is he a lil mad! LOL!

Sad that you smell something fishy here man... why not sit back, grab a beer and order some steak to overcome the fishy smell and see how it turns out. Afterall, so far it's only James' money that is at stake here.

I try to explain it to people like trying to inflate a balloon with a hole on the other end. You can make the holes larger and it will never inflate the balloon, but that doesn't mean you aren't moving a lot of air. You can make the hole smaller, and the balloon may inflate, but that doesn't mean you're moving any air. PSI is the equivalent of wasting energy inflating the balloon.

Don't care what you say Ben, still want a bigger hole in my balloon! MORE PSI MAN !!! LOL That was actually a great way to explain it. We will learn soon ... give us n00b's time.

A roots supercharger is the way to go for the E38. They make torque down low in the RPM band (almost from zero rpm's) and torque is what's going to move these pigs. You want an autobahn missile, use VF's kit. You want something to tear a Mustang a new butthole from a dig, you need a roots supercharger. There is a reason that OEM supercharged engines use roots blowers......Mustang Cobra, F-150 Lightning, Pontiac Grand Prix, Corvette, Cadillac V series, Jaguar, etc all use roots blowers. To be honest, I can't even think of one OEM setup that uses a centrifugal blower.

m5james, again if you need any help I'll gladly provide any that I can. I don't see this as competition to my kit, but as another option for the E38 guys. I love that you're taking the leap of faith on this. I really do hope it works out for you without costing you a ton of money. I know some of the issues you are up against, but you are at least starting with a "functioning" kit and not starting from zero.

I have to agree with that statement BCM. Even as a n00b to all of this, I can see the benefits. Especially for cars that are not just track demons, this gives them even greater driveability. Even for an Autobahn missile - it would still have to be up in the 5000+ RPM range to get the full benefits of the current S/C's on the market. My reason for considering the VF kit is because it starts to provide appreciable power as low as 2800 RPM. I can only imagine what a system like this would feel like.

Aesthetically, I think the guy developing this is coming along nicely based on the ebay pictures.

[geargrinder]

Nice job Michael. Nailed it. (Yer still confused about the balloon & PSI, but we'll getcha there in the end bud! )

[m5james]

James - I could have sworn DINAN was able to get 8 - 9 psi out of their S/C kit when they had it for sale. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

I honestly don't see anything on the market that could be considered "cheap" as far as forced induction goes. It really is one of those things where you have to pay to play. I am looking forward to your progress on this kit. To be honest, the Seller seems to be making progress - aesthetically, he seems to be on the right path. Like anything else, time will bring better results. Maybe we should connect the Seller to DUDMD and they can develop a tune for this thing :-)

I don't know how many lbs of boost the Dinan kit ran. I know VF came out with their Stage 1 at around 6, then they we're going to bump up to 8-9 for Stage II w/ an intercooler, but then they dropped development when the new M3 at the time came out.

Paying to play is never cheap, and even after spending 13k on motor, supercharger and supporting mods for my Harley, it's still not running perfectly or properly. I've talked w/ Dima about it (remember, this SC kit is going into his X5 that I bought), but between everything he's doing in his own life, I don't see him trying to coordinate w/ the eBay seller anytime soon. I'm going to install the kit, the E39 M5 fuel pump, install a wideband and see where everything goes from there...then I'll be contacting Dima about additional tuning and/or running the VF injectors I have.

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Yeah your attitude on this has been clear to me from the start which is why I have no idea why Liquidity jumped on you. If you have Dimitry handy to do a tune for this and potentially replace the FPR kludge, that's a bonus. I suspect you might replace some of the guys hardware too but you have already said you're fully ready to do that. Not many people are willing to roll the dice with eyes open and take whatever comes, so I guess it's hard for guys to understand doing that. It's like the 'civilians' whose brainz f@rt and short out when they hear I manual swapped my wagon... they just go 'but why... would.. you .....'

I completely agree that just because I buy ANY kit that it's an open and shut case. I've read on these and other forums of guys even buying the Dinan or VF kits and still having issues after the fact. Difference is I accept that I'm going to have to put my own work in after the fact...and I'm OK with that, it's what makes me a car guy...tinkering with shit until it suits my needs.

I don't recall PSI (and I think I've warned before about equating PSI with actual power produced... it's all about the CFM FLOW not PSI...) but I will say the Dinan kits do pull stronger dynos than the VF's. That could only be down to TB hardware, or, tuning, as all the rest is virtually the same I think...

I can attest to this in regards to my Harley and swapping from the Eaton M112 to the KB2.3 I installed. I went from 14-16lbs of boost on the Eaton to 10-12lbs on the KB and I went up in power. The Eaton is a roots, the KB is a twin screw. Lb for lb for twin screw is better, so I'm kaing more power on less boost.

[Binjammin]

James, I pointed it out when you posted the instructions but I don't think you answered, is RTV the approved sealing method between the blower and the heads?

[m5james]

Every post from m5james is a case file propping this guy up. If it's not an attempt to justify the purchase, is it because they're affiliated? What other purpose does it serve to convince anyone that all of the terrible cobbled-together pieces in this kit should be over-looked or replaced at your own cost? Or what about the kit not even existing until you give him $5,000 so he can then buy the parts?

I'm not propping this guy per say, I'm fully aware of what flaws his kit has at the moment...what I'm propping is that he took a very common and well known supercharger and adapted it for our cars...something I wouldn't have thought of, let alone had the time to do myself. I have NO affiliation w/ this guy other than I read on forums & FB and then found his eBay ad. Having experience w/ the SC he's using, reading on Jaguar forums beforehand to see their experiences, I took a leap of faith and bit the bullet...nothing more, nothing less. I'm not convinving you guys of anything, becuase at this point I'm not even convinced either. All I know is the supercharger itself is a common piece, but EVERYTHING after that is in question to me. Exchanging emails with this guy is almost comical because of the langauge barrier, but I make do and then pull from my own knowledge seeing that I've used the same SC on my truck, hounding a few friends for their opinion and then posting on these forums...I've got just as many questions and hopes for this to work out as most do. Difference is I accept it's not a 100% perfect kit, but what it's perfect, I believe I can figure out.

I realize he's not buying parts until I pay him first. I work for this small mom and pop company, and until someone invested billions of dollars of their own money on an idea, that idea never would have come to be what it is today. Maybe you've heard ANA and the Boeing 787. As of today we're starting on plane 182, and by all means these things aren't perfect...yet each day we get closer and closer to perfection. I've spent ONE paycheck on this guy, I have buyer protection for 6 months from PayPal since it's an international order and I've told this guy he has a deadline of getting it to my door before May 14th for Bimmefest...preferably before that so I can start working on kinks. Only just recently he came out w/ his Stage 6, which I didn't even know about until someone mentioned it on forums. I emailed him right away and asked why he never mentioned it, but he said it just came out and he hasn't even made the changes in his website either. While I like the idea of using 80% of bolt on parts from the XJR setup, he claims that the Stage 6 has the benefits of both the Stage 2 (more off the line power) and the Stage 4 kit (more topend power) but he's said that he's made things more efficiently, no longer has ANY copper cobbled together pieces w/ tons of hose clamps. I like that the Stage 6 inlet is coming in very similar to the stock location vs the Stage 2 having a rear intlet, using the stock engine cover means that I don't have to see that crappy wiring setup he's wrapped in blue silicone hosing on his Stage 4 kit, etc.

Whether anyone feels my line of questioning or accusations are out of line really doesn't change that something here smells very fishy to me.

Wash your hands, otherwise I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe I'm like others who spend large amounts of money...now I'm going to justify my actions because I'm invested in it now. Besudes that, I have no affiliation w/ this guy other than he's got my money and he needs to hurry up and get my kit shipped so I can start ironing out the kinks.

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I admit I don't know the most about supercharging... mainly because I've been riding motorcycles for 20+ years and my CBR runs 10.3 bone stock in a 1/4 mile. So all these cars (including your 600hp truck) are slow to me.

I wish you the best of luck but I really wish this kit was more like $3000 to make it more worth all the risk.

I'm not new to FI, but my Harley F150 is my second supercharged vehicle. I learned the shortcomings real quick of installing an SC that isn't intercooled when I put an SC onto my Toyota Tacoma V6...heatsoak, pinging, etc. I've been riding for 15yrs, from an R6, R1 and now a TL1000R ( LOVE the exhaust note)...you're preaching to the choir about 1/4 mile times w/ mid 100hp vehicles. But you're comparing apples to oranges seeing that my truck weighs over 5x as much, so naturally it's going to need almost 5x the power. My bike is far from stock (bored, stroked, up/down sprockets, NOS, etc), so your bike is slow to mine

I've noticed he's incrementally increased the price with each improvement he's made, but I negotiated a price w/ him and got it down to $4200 shipped with the necessary throttle provisions to make this kit work on either m7 740iL6 or my X5, so I can't complain. There are people selling used VF kits for that range if that's what you can afford, just do Google searches.

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Good luck with the kit. I've seen a few videos of the guys kit in action. I could care less how you spend your money it's your money. But I do want to increase the power of my 740il. Post pictures, videos of what comes of this project. Don't forget Dyno results. I'm subscribed.

My engine build thread for my truck is like 15+ pages at the moment, I'm very open about everything.

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James, I pointed it out when you posted the instructions but I don't think you answered, is RTV the approved sealing method between the blower and the heads?

I don't know, and hope not!! I've saved countless pics of his setup from various threads, both American and German forums. Sometimes it looks like he's done it w/ orange RTV, othertimes it looks like hand-cut gaskets. While I prefered the look of the Stage 2 kit on the stock Jaguar XJR setup (and it's intercoolers built into each side of the intake manifolds vs the Stage 6 has a plate intercooler atop the SC itself(that's what underneath that bolted cover he shows in the pics)), but I've opted for his most recent Stage 6 setup since he says he's made many changes and improvements on it, so I like the idea that I'm getting the latest and greatest revision even thought it's going to be hidden under the custom engine cover he makes. I was initially concerned about that newer cover fitting, but he said it fit nicely inside his own 01 X5 after trimming a little of some HVAC inlet cover he mentioned, so we'll see once it arrives...fitting it into my 740iL6 might be interesting, but I'll cross that road when I get to installing it in that car.