The HSVTurbo $1000 challenge, the T72 turbo & piggy back ride. Phase II

[hsvturbo]

Anyone have some advice on which brand of Knock sensor work best for FI on an OBD1?

So a little update on my build. I retorqued my ARPs as well as checked my CR while the plugs were out:

1-130 psi
2-130 psi
3-135 psi
4-130 psi
5-130 psi
6-140 psi

With winter approaching I reinstalled the ICV which I removed durning the turbo rebuild. I also installed the Active Gen III exhaust which I took off during the turbo build. So I have 3-1/2 inch down pipe necking Down to two stock size pipes. Talk about a bottle neck lol. However, I am liking the sound, or should I say, less of it. Less is more, and eventually I want to go way less.

So eventually I must have physically hit the knock sensor when I install my ICV as the CEL stays on continually. I did notice prior to this, the CEL would flash on-off during some 1-2 shift under normal driving, at least within the past two or so weeks. I regret I didn't do the stomp test prior to this, and especially after going drag racing, were the CEL light came on at around 5600 rpm in second and third gear.

Double Wood..? haha

I think I will go with DLLTS for it's acronym.

[highboostingm3]

Augh, a log manifold lol. So let's just call this simple design which is easy to install on the e36 a "log like manifold". I do disagree with how you indicated that the " runner 1 going into runner 2 then going into runner 3" statement. To me the number 1 runner goes into the larger secondary tube in which the exhaust gasses pass the number 2 & 3 primary runners, which are at a 120-150 degree angle. Since the # 2&3 exhaust valves are closed during the #1 exhaust cycle, I am presuming these two extra openings have little effect to the exhaust pulse to the turbine.

The reason why I like this design approach is due to some CFD analysis I've conducted at work. What I have seen in steady state flow rate CFD's, is when a fluid or gas goes from a small to a large, back to a small cross sectional area, the result is a pressure hit on the fluid. I equate this to the three into one design you mention. So with my simple "log like manifold" I have a gradual increase in section width going into the turbine. Obviously an exhaust pulse is not a steady state flow and many, if not all high end racing sports have the three equal length into one design for manifolds, so these designs must be better, they just must be right?

Anyway, I think you may have placed some pressure on some folks that build and sell the higher end manifolds on this forum. I mean, I ran 91 mph in the 1/8 mile two weeks after I got my car back on the road from a 4'ish week turbo system install, bear in mind this included building the manifold too. Also remember this was at 7 to 7-1/2 psi on an eBay turbo. Once I get my lack of fuel issue fixed, and turn the boost up to 11 - 12 psi, I may have one of the faster stock bottom end M3 at this boost level on the board, not that this is a competition or anything like that. BTW, 12 psi should put me at 460-ish whp from my calcs.

Hey, I'm willing to learn, so please instruct me on what I am missing or over looking as I have only been in the turbo game for 3-years.

As for the waste gate angle, this will be fixed in the next one I build. Thanks for your input.

What I stated is fact. It does not mean that it does not work nor that it will work well. We all need to check our egos at the door in order to think, learn, grow, evolve or we all will be in a holding pattern for the rest of our lives. The more sthensthitive we are about our choices in life...the less we grow.

Here is a quote that I love, "The wisest man knows how little he knows." -Socrates.

You do not have two 3-1 collectors = fact. It still works pretty darn good? Yes. I am simply pointing out fact. The only reason that it seemed to be a dig is due to your own feelings inside your head about it, nothing else.

I am looking forward to more progress and good times and pics and videos. Your build is still great and it will be cool to watch the progression.

[eraser87]

As known from the e30 build, a lot of outside-the-box thinking going on here, bravo!
In my opinion you built the perfect street manifold, because even IF it is not perfect performance wise, it seems to be the best of all the worlds: Low volume for fast spool, split pulse, bottom mount for easier downpipe routing and weight distribution friendly turbo placement, also its cheap and lighter than a 10metres of tubing "krakenfold".

[hsvturbo]

What I stated is fact. It does not mean that it does not work nor that it will work well. We all need to check our egos at the door in order to think, learn, grow, evolve or we all will be in a holding pattern for the rest of our lives. The more sthensthitive we are about our choices in life...the less we grow.

Here is a quote that I love, "The wisest man knows how little he knows." -Socrates.

You do not have two 3-1 collectors = fact. It still works pretty darn good? Yes. I am simply pointing out fact. The only reason that it seemed to be a dig is due to your own feelings inside your head about it, nothing else.

I am looking forward to more progress and good times and pics and videos. Your build is still great and it will be cool to watch the progression.

I'm ok with the "log" reference. But I'm keeping my acronym.

&

My apologies if I offended you and others with what I've said, or how I stated it. I'm passionate about turbo stuff, competitive, and confident in what I know to be true. I can see were I could come off as a know-it-all j@ck-a$$. I'll tone it down In this section but will continue to talk smack in the Kill section, lol.

I too have a verse:

"Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning." Proverbs 9:9 (KJ)

As known from the e30 build, a lot of outside-the-box thinking going on here, bravo!
In my opinion you built the perfect street manifold, because even IF it is not perfect performance wise, it seems to be the best of all the worlds: Low volume for fast spool, split pulse, bottom mount for easier downpipe routing and weight distribution friendly turbo placement, also its cheap and lighter than a 10metres of tubing "krakenfold".

Thanks man, appreciate the kind works. I'm happy with it.

How's the longevity of the eBay t72? Do you know if it will fit on a top mount manifold without cutting the hood?

1200 miles on it, still whistling Dixie!

[hsvturbo]

So I had my first "turbo" related failure. My oil feed hose got overheated and started leaking the other day. This was also confirmed by a C6 owner who could smell oil burning after a hard pull. He really needs a faster car to fix that issue lol.

Anyway, replaced the hose with a metal tubing and I'm back in business. Below are some pulls made south of the boarder. M&M did well for still running on a 5-lb spring IMO. M&M had the only passenger in the group and the supper fast 335 had over twice the boost pressure then her. Enjoy.

[hsvturbo]

So after 1673 miles on the car since the turbo install, I pulled M&M back into the garage in order to examine the hardware as well as build two Stainless manifolds, one for myself and another for a forum member. However, after looking at my carbon steel manifold, it's held up so well, I am going to keep running it as is, with the exception of adding a pressure port so I can measure manifold pressure.

I'm also going to install a muffler, redue my screamer pipe and add some flex couplings to the exhaust. I going to do a small upgrade to the fuel system so I can hopefully put in my 10# WG spring.

I've already changed out my knock sensors, boy, were they busted up big time. No wonder I was throwing codes.



I haven't spent to much time yet on the new manifold, but I finally got some pieces tacked together and turned out quit nice IMO. The 1-7/8" tube conforms very nicely to the T4 flange. Should be good for 50 hp over a cast piece. JK, actually this piece turned out sooooo much better then my first prototype, I'm looking forward to the finished product.

[m3mods]

Hell yeah love to see the progress!

[hsvturbo]

Happy new year!

So I've been at this little piece all day, well, half a day lol. Just one of the puzzle pieces to building a manifold.

[hsvturbo]

Hard to believe these items plus two knock sensors cost me close to $600. One thing I noticed with Jegs, all prices seemed to go up by 20% from last summer.

[E36 HateR]

Ouchhh

[ak5]

Subd

[hsvturbo]

I finally finished my new manifold. This design is stepped from 1-5/8 to 1-3/4 to 1-7/8 inch diameter tubing.

The reason why I stepped it up to 1-7/8" is after building my prototype I started putting some math to the design. I calculated that one side of the T4 divided flange opening is approx 2.56 sq inches. The 1-7/8" tubing ID area is 2.40 sq inches. My intention for this design was to keep the exhaust gases at the same velocity through the manifold and into the turbo, thus retaining it's energy to help spool. Obviously a nice smooth turn in angle into the turbo would be ideal so the exhaust gases aren't making an abrupt turn. Packaging is always an issue for us, but I think I did ok. I'm sure this topic has been discussed, but I haven't seen it, thoughts?


Another improvement from my first design was the crossover WG.

[good & tight]

Looks good, what kind of pipe did you use?

[hsvturbo]

Looks good, what kind of pipe did you use?

Thanks Otis. I used .064 wall tubing

[RobertFontaine]

This manifold looks a bunch easier to install than most. definitely sub'ed. Must get more money and learn how to weld.

[m3mods]

Wow lookin' really good! Now I'm definitely torn..

[Jaze]

Wow lookin' really good! Now I'm definitely torn..

You and I have been on the hunt for the perfect manifold for quite a while lol. We're going to have to put our research together one day soon.

[m3mods]

You and I have been on the hunt for the perfect manifold for quite a while lol. We're going to have to put our research together one day soon.

Hahah so it would seem

[hsvturbo]

This manifold looks a bunch easier to install than most. definitely sub'ed. Must get more money and learn how to weld.

Being able to install the manifold while the engine is in the car was my #1 objective. The four fasteners above the T4 flange will be a little more difficult on this one as compared to my first one, but I will do another test fit this weekend and see how it goes.

Wow lookin' really good! Now I'm definitely torn..

Thanks.

[hsvturbo]

The reason why I stepped it up to 1-7/8" is after building my prototype I started putting some math to the design. I calculated that one side of the T4 divided flange opening is approx 2.56 sq inches. The 1-7/8" tubing ID area is 2.40 sq inches. My intention for this design was to keep the exhaust gases at the same velocity through the manifold and into the turbo, thus retaining it's energy to help spool. Obviously a nice smooth turn in angle into the turbo would be ideal so the exhaust gases aren't making an abrupt turn. Packaging is always an issue for us, but I think I did ok. I'm sure this topic has been discussed, but I haven't seen it, thoughts?

So, nobody is interested in discussing the geometry of the entry into the turbo, hmmmmm, interesting. I'll be updating my sig with "Engineering the Vena Contractra out of Twin Scroll", cause I can, lol.

The four fasteners above the T4 flange will be a little more difficult on this one as compared to my first one, but I will do another test fit this weekend and see how it goes.

/\ actually, I miss-spoke. I installed the new manifold and the four fasteners above the T4 flange was not to bad to install. The reason, is that I can actually see the studs unlike my prototype, see below picture:

On my prototype, the WG crossover tube prevents this view.

The reason I thought it would be harder to install was that looking straight on at the four flange holes, the opening was much smaller then my prototype due to the larger tubing used, but this wasn't much of the issue.


And a view of the manifold on the engine,

Can anyone see the vena contracta? Actually, there could be two for twin scroll.

Over the weekend I mostly finished my new exhaust, boy, what a disappointment. Its still to loud, bummer. I will be pulling it back off to reinforce one of the hangers and I didn't finish all the welds as it got to late in the evening and I wanted to spend some time with the wife.

Other exciting news, I replaced the 5# spring with the 10# spring in the WG, re-jetted my fan tipped N2O nozzles, added a larger fitting to the methanol fuel line to increase efficiency. So in my haste to finish the car over the weekend, I forgot to tighten one of the 27 clamps holding my charge pipe together. So the first hit yesterday was a failure as well, hah. Hey, it's only going to get better!

Lastly, I'll post the pop can next to the business side,

[hsvturbo]

Maybe some of you will get a kick out of my first hit on the 10# WG spring. Needless to say, I still have more work to do.

[m3mods]

Mo powa mo problems lol

[bry195]

not sure what clutch you are running but mine had to be broke in before it would hold. the next series of issues I had was that the clucth would slip if I got it hot. If I let it cool down it would bite again. maybe 10 minutes. pumping it to keep it from creating hot spots or welding the two together.

[hsvturbo]

Mo powa mo problems lol

Mo powa mo opportunity to improve lol

not sure what clutch you are running but mine had to be broke in before it would hold. the next series of issues I had was that the clucth would slip if I got it hot. If I let it cool down it would bite again. maybe 10 minutes. pumping it to keep it from creating hot spots or welding the two together.

I think my clutch currently has about 159k miles of break in lol. I haven't upgraded the clutch yet but will eventually with a 6-puck sprung ceramic. On my e30, the ceramic 6-puck actually held better warmed up.

I have a second 10# spring I'm going to modify to a 7#-ish rate so I can get about 40 more hp and hopefully my current clutch will hold a 3rd gear hit. BTW, im not running a EBC, yet.

[m3mods]

Mo powa mo opportunity to improve lol

Ah yes opportunity is what I meant