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Its nice to see that someone took the time to do all the work properly. I have discussed the issues these engines have with several other guys at my shop. The general consensus is the long oil change intervals are somewhat to blame. Oil is inevitably contaminated by fuel and vapors. Also the quality of rubber gaskets and seals coming from Germany or BMW suppliers may not be up to par with the ethanol based fuels in the US
ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician
Member
Awesome! I am in the middle of pulling the engine out of my 545i right now due to a cracked cylinder. 207K miles on the original.. went to clean out the secondary air system and I think I dumped so much carbon into the combustion chamber from the cleaning that it ended up cracking the cylinder when I started it. Old engine had some smoking at idle issues and intermediate levers were out of spec causing a rough idle after a cold start in cold weather but otherwise ran fine.
Bought a long block from a 745i with 75K miles on it and am going to do similar to what you've done, but not nearly as extreme. I'm just replacing valve seals, coolant crossover pipe, rear coolant passage seal, alternator bracket seal and maybe oil pan seals depending on how well they are doing. Obviously timing covers and valve covers also.
Did you use any sort of sealant on anything or just put everything on per BMW's recommendations? I was thinking a super thin layer of the right stuff may at least make the leaks hold off a little longer
Last edited by schpenxel; 10-15-2013 at 03:54 PM.
Wannabe Mechanic
I am so glad i decided to pull the heads off. I did something similar to you but i poured Berrymanns parts cleaner down int he cylinders to clean off all the junk. What i didnt realize it no matter how much you try to suck the carbon out you cant get it all. An by that i mean much at all. I pulled the heads and the sludge was all over. It easily cleaned up with a vacuum and carb cleaner and looks awesome as you can see in my pics. Berrymanns did its job 100%.
I think if you are going to go that far you should absolutely pull the heads and have them checked. I guarantee the guides are loose and the seals need to be done. Only get OEM parts where applicable. If your shop cant source the replacement guides call T-Hoff in Raleigh, NC. They have them custom made. The timing and valve seal repair tool kits are available through www.bimmertoolrental.com.
I made much progress today and my engine is almost ready to go back in. If you have any questions feel free to ask. About the sealant: Dont go overboard because it more to fail and leak if you can believe it. The valve cover gaskets get red RTV, the right stuff dry way too fast for these covers. TIP: Go to your local pool supply store and get magic lube teflon o-ring paste. It is the ONLY thing i have ever had luck with when trying to get the spark plug tubes to seat properly. These covers are a royal PITA as you know.
Last edited by kaineb; 10-15-2013 at 08:03 PM.
Member
How many miles did your engine have it when you pulled it? Sorry if I missed that.
If I were rebuilding the original motor I'd pull the heads and do the guides while I was at it, but since the replacement long block only has 75K miles I'll probably leave them alone and just do seals. I have debated just changing the easiest to get to gaskets on the new one and just throwing it in like that without doing much of anything. Of course I'll clean everything I can before putting it in. Doubt I'll go that lazy of a route though--really want to at least change the valve seals while it's out. The smoking at stop lights was getting pretty embarrassing on my old engine
On the carbon--Cylinders 3/4 had an absolutely ridiculous amount of carbon on my original motor when I pulled the heads off. I wish I had measured how much it was--not sure if it was loose stuff that came in through the secondary air port cleaning or was just build up? I did notice that the exhaust ports looked like they had pieces of carbon knocked off of them.. I'll take some pictures at some point. The secondary air ports actually looked quite clean when I pulled the head off--I'll take some pics sometime
Timing tools I think me and another guy are going in on a set together, similar price to the rental places for each of us, and we can sell them in the end
Thanks for the tip on the lube!
Last edited by schpenxel; 10-15-2013 at 09:41 PM.
Wannabe Mechanic
Progress. Engine ready to go in. Transmission torn down and ready to dig into. Yikes!
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Penxel,
I had 135k on her. If you are going to do all those seals and coolant pipe it would be foolish not to pull the heads and have them checked. Yo are supposed to pull the heads to do the lower timing cover seals and the transfer pipe anyway. It is long tern piece of mind and a set of gaskets and bolts. Not that much more. Considering the issues the 545 has with SAS there is no way i personally would put that engine in after all the work you are going to do with that high mileage. You are going to run into those issues in no time and going to cost way more down the road. Good luck though! I am getting ever closer with mine. Cant wait to have it back. As much as the idle vibration drove me crazy, the car was still a beast. Fast with style.
Member
You've about talked me into pulling the headsWhat do you mean by "checking" them? Just checking all the wear items for wear + replacing seals, and guides if they do end up needing them, and cleaning them of course?
On the crossover pipe I am going to take the aftermarket URO one off of my old engine and install it with all new seals to avoid having to buy a new one, and to avoid having the original BMW design in there. Hopefully that helps avoid that issue for a long long time.
I'm coming up with $266 for a set of head gaskets, head bolts and washers (hey why not at this point) from ECS. I think the head gaskets can be found for cheaper ($90 at ECS, $65 at rmeuropean but I've never used them.. need to do some more research on that one. That would put the total to more like $200 before shipping. If I do that, I might as well replace all of the timing chain guides while I'm at it. Thought about replacing the chains but I can't find anywhere that one has failed, and after talking with a tech on bimmerfest, he hasn't seen it either, so probably a waste of money to change those.
Honestly at this point I'm not too overly confident in my mechanical abilities after I managed to crack a cylinder while trying to clean the SAS
Curious--what are you replacing in the transmission? Just clutch packs/seals? I thought about pulling mine and doing it too. I am planning on replacing the torque converter while I have access most likely
Wannabe Mechanic
Originally Posted by schpenxel
You've about talked me into pulling the heads
On the crossover pipe I am going to take the aftermarket URO one off of my old engine and install it with all new seals to avoid having to buy a new one, and to avoid having the original BMW design in there. Hopefully that helps avoid that issue for a long long time.
I'm coming up with $266 for a set of head gaskets, head bolts and washers (hey why not at this point) from ECS. I think the head gaskets can be found for cheaper ($90 at ECS, $65 at rmeuropean but I've never used them.. need to do some more research on that one. That would put the total to more like $200 before shipping. If I do that, I might as well replace all of the timing chain guides while I'm at it. Thought about replacing the chains but I can't find anywhere that one has failed, and after talking with a tech on bimmerfest, he hasn't seen it either, so probably a waste of money to change those.
Honestly at this point I'm not too overly confident in my mechanical abilities after I managed to crack a cylinder while trying to clean the SAS
Curious--what are you replacing in the transmission? Just clutch packs/seals? I thought about pulling mine and doing it too. I am planning on replacing the torque converter while I have access most likely
Take both heads to the machine shop. They will clean out the SAS passages, deck the heads, check the valve guides for excessive wear. If they are out of tolerance don't even think about not replacing them. You will be having seal trouble again soon. They will also clean the heads and replace the valve stem seals. For the work involve and price, its worth it for them to do it. Buy your own seals and give them to the shop so you know they are OEM. Also get very fine steel wool an an auto parts store.Flip the block upside down and clean the top of the block. Only do this upside down so nothing gets inside the motor. Vacuum, brake cleaner, vacuum, brake cleaner, vacuum. Will assure no traces get in there.
While the heads are off go get a gallon of Berrymanns parts cleaner at Pep Boys and let it sit 12 -24 hrs. Use brake cleaner to break down the sludge left behind and a wet vac to remove all traces. You will see in one of my pics it is spotless. Make sure your lower oil pan is removed so the bypassing fluid can drain out of the crankcase, this doesnt hurt anything. Remember to put the engine on a stand so each bank can be straight up and down when putting fluid i the cylinders.
If you are going to replace the lower timing cover seals you might stick with OEM. All of the aftermarket ones are a bandaid. Yes the original one fails at high mileage but you will likely never see it if you replace the oem one. An its cheap.
Stick with OEM head gaskets and bolts. Go to your local auto parts store and buy a $10 degree dial gauge for installing the head studs. They have 2 turns of 90 degrees and it should not be guess work.
Dont worry about your mechanical kills. You know how many mistakes i have and do make and im a pretty decent BMW mechanic. Its part of learning and growing. Sometimes expensive. Think of the alternative, your car was 65K+ when it was new. You have some wiggle room for mistakes
I am tearing apart the trans because i want to do all of this once, and you have to remove it to do remove the engine anyway. I am replacing the TC as well. I have the ZF repair manual if you need, too large to post here. I also have the spring compressor tool.
Last edited by kaineb; 10-17-2013 at 01:44 AM.
Member
Your engine/heads sure do look good, that's for sure! I was surprised to see they found valves not sealing properly--I had some rough idle issues when the engine was first started and temp under about 50*F so something was going on with mine as well--I always thought it was intermediate levers but who knows. That was of course on the old engine. The new long block includes assembled heads (obviously.. it's a long block after all) that I hope doesn't have the same issue.Take both heads to the machine shop. They will clean out the SAS passages, deck the heads, check the valve guides for excessive wear. If they are out of tolerance don't even think about not replacing them. You will be having seal trouble again soon. They will also clean the heads and replace the valve stem seals. For the work involve and price, its worth it for them to do it. Buy your own seals and give them to the shop so you know they are OEM. Also get very fine steel wool an an auto parts store.Flip the block upside down and clean the top of the block. Only do this upside down so nothing gets inside the motor. Vacuum, brake cleaner, vacuum, brake cleaner, vacuum. Will assure no traces get in there.
While the heads are off go get a gallon of Berrymanns parts cleaner at Pep Boys and let it sit 12 -24 hrs. Use brake cleaner to break down the sludge left behind and a wet vac to remove all traces. You will see in one of my pics it is spotless. Make sure your lower oil pan is removed so the bypassing fluid can drain out of the crankcase, this doesnt hurt anything. Remember to put the engine on a stand so each bank can be straight up and down when putting fluid i the cylinders.
If you are going to replace the lower timing cover seals you might stick with OEM. All of the aftermarket ones are a bandaid. Yes the original one fails at high mileage but you will likely never see it if you replace the oem one. An its cheap.
Stick with OEM head gaskets and bolts. Go to your local auto parts store and buy a $10 degree dial gauge for installing the head studs. They have 2 turns of 90 degrees and it should not be guess work.
Dont worry about your mechanical kills. You know how many mistakes i have and do make and im a pretty decent BMW mechanic. Its part of learning and growing. Sometimes expensive. Think of the alternative, your car was 65K+ when it was new. You have some wiggle room for mistakes
I am tearing apart the trans because i want to do all of this once, and you have to remove it to do remove the engine anyway. I am replacing the TC as well. I have the ZF repair manual if you need, too large to post here. I also have the spring compressor tool.
You have certainly given me a lot to think about to figure out what to do on mine while I'm doing the swap. Obviously the "right" choice, if I'm going to keep the car for several more years, is to pull the heads, clean the bottom end, and have the heads checked and most likely valve guides replaced. If I'm going to sell the car in a month, well, maybe not. I keep going back and forth on that depending on how mad I am at it, lol. I have already bought the BMW valve seal kits for both sides, so I'm good there at least.
How much did parts set you back for the head work?
My car has a smell to it that I notice every time I get in it lately that reminds me I want to keep it for a long time though, so we shall see. For some reason my daily driver (Accord) isn't quite the same.
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Also, any recommendations on a machine shop? I am living in Greensboro, NC now (used to live in Cary actually/went to school at NCSU)
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While I commend you on taking on such a task, I do not consider this a glowing review for someone considering a used 550i for a daily. $5,000 in PARTS to repair a car with just over 100,000 miles? Even considering the cost to buy the car new this is not acceptable to me.
Having experienced all of this, Would you recommend a 2010 model to someone who was considering one?
__________
98 M3
2008 G35S
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By the way, I've got another set of head gaskets and bolts for sale
And its not the parts, its the labor that will kill you. I can do the job for a few hundred in parts. Less than 1k for sure.
Last edited by White94RX; 10-17-2013 at 05:31 PM.
ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician
Wannabe Mechanic
While i agree that it is expensive, for me it was a learning experience and something i felt would help my business. I use to work on BMW's as a small side business but transitioned into another area with BMW's that i find more fulfilling. V8's are expensive to won, expensive to maintain. I personally liek the car and enjoy doing major work and learning so it isn't a daily driver for me. I also think that they are all going to see these issues. Can you imagine when the turbo cars come through in a few years. the first gens are seeing turbo, wastegate, HPFP failures already. All big $$ items.
My latest progress, check out the sweet custom transmission stand!
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Output shaft and lower (D) clutch installed. Now come the hard stuff. Taking my time.
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Penxel,
The parts were $96 for the guides, they are custom made and machined to each valve. Since you live close to me i would highly recommend dropping your heads off at T-Hoff in Raleigh on capital BLVD. I agree if you arent going to keep the car do the absolute minimum to sell it, but do just that. Fix it and get rid of it. If you want t check out the engine before it goes in and have any questions let me know. Right now i am muddling my way through rebuilding the transmission.
Last edited by kaineb; 10-17-2013 at 06:40 PM.
Member
I would love to see the ZF repair manual. How large is it? I will PM you my email address now.
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It is indeed a bit scary--keep in mind my original engine and transmission are (were on the engine) at 207K miles. The motor would still be running if I hadn't messed with it--albeit leaked a little oil and burned some as well. Also had some quircky things going on like rough idle on cold starts in cold weather, but overall from what I have seen so far of the insides, the cylinders show very very little wear, if any. I am going to pull the bearings and see if there's any other wear as well once I get the time
I guess my point is that while the rebuild that kaineb is doing will certainly give a LOT more life out of the car, it shouldn't scare you off from buying a 2010 in my opinion. I would however have a warranty on it unless a few thousand in repairs is no big deal to you
How much for the gaskets + bolts? Are they OEM? And lastly, is it enough for a whole engine or just one head?
I can't imagine what the 535's will look like in a few years.. once they start getting over 100K on a regular basis I would hate to know how common the issues will get. Hopefully it goes better than I think it will. Anyone that knows how to work on them at a lower cost than the dealer better be ready to be busy, in my opinion anyways.. maybe that's something I should get into
That sounds like a great price on the guides, I was thinking more like twice that. Did T-Hoff do all the work on your heads? I have decided to get the engine in and give it a good look over before making the decision on what to do in regards to removing the heads. If the exhaust ports / SAS has obvious excessive build up that is most likely from guides/seals being worn out, then I will pull the heads. If by some miracle that look great, then I will probably not (so most likely I am pulling them it looks like)
Also, I sent you a PM in regards to the ZF manual--if it's too large to email let me know and I will try to come up with another way to get a copy of it
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One more thing while I'm thinking about it
Are you changing solenoids in the mechatronics/valve body while you're at it? I was extremely successful in fixing all of my transmission issues when I installed new solenoids on mine. Check out the giant transmission thread over on bimmerfest if you haven't already--several other people have noted similar experiences (and one did not, to be fair). May be worth it while it's already apart.
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T-Hoff did all of the work and a fine job i must say. Machine work isnt cheap but the peace of mind to know that these heads are 100% is worth the price since i will be keeping this car for some time. You cannot check the condition of the guides with the heads on and i guarantee at 75k they are loose. You are going to burn through a set of seals again if they are. If you are keeping the car dont skip this part. The SAS, Guides, and seals will rear their ugly heads. Not a question of if but when.
I bought a set of head gaskets and bolts from 94RX myself and they were OEM, would recommend. Its weird he works at Hostess making Twinkies but knows a thing or two about a BMW. Even answered a few questions about the little swirly icing on top of the cupcakes. :P Of course i am poking fun at him, good guy.
I have a brand new mechatronic unit from ZF direct. I was supposed to get a rebuilt but they didn't have any available so i got a brand new one. Yay.....
Member
Heck yeah--can't beat that on the new mechatronics unit!
I'm really getting annoyed at this forum--I never get emails about replies to this thread even though I have subscribed several times. Guess I should check my spam folder first
Wannabe Mechanic
Uploaded PDF to you. ITs a good document. Also check out the video below. This is the Ford 6R80 transmission which is an exact copy of the ZF 6HP26. Ford licensed it from ZF. The document and video should get you close.
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Clutch B, C, D rebuilt and installed.
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Clutch transmission A/E dismantled.
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Yes, OEM head gaskets and bolts. Two gaskets, two sets of bolts. $150 shipped. Is yours a 545 or 550? The bolts are the same, but gaskets are different. The ones I have are for a 550
ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician
Member
545i on mine
Member
I'll double check, but I don't think these will work
ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician
Member
Thanks! I glanced through it from my phone earlier and it looks extremely thorough--better than any other I've found on it for sure. If anyone else wants it I can certainly share.
Don't think they will--just looking at the pictures of the head gaskets under the 550i part number and 545i part number, they look slightly different. Mainly on the 550i the bores look bigger, enough that you can see the gasket material between cylinders is smaller vs. the 545's
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Also, just watched part of that YouTube video--great video. I actually feel like I could probably manage to rebuild one now, although I'd be scared to try--that's what sucks about working on transmissions. If you mess up one thing, it's a whole lot of work to get it back out to fix it..
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If anyone needs the repair manual for the 6HP26 PM so i can get you access to it via FTP. To do this repair you need the spring compressor tool and the 34mm special socket. You can rent the spring compressor from bimmertoolrental.com but i had to find a local trans shop to break the nut loose and tighten it after. It is a special thin walled socket that i haven't been able to find. All the rest of the tools are common. Its an easy build so far. Just have the A/E clutches and the pump to do yet.
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Engine has arrived!
Looks to be in good shape, no shipping damage. Included the power steering pump and a few other things. The eccentric sensors have some broken tabs--not sure if it was from when they removed the engine or if valve cover gaskets were changed in the past.
It was wrapped extremely well, we had to re-wrap it after checking it out to make sure there was no freight damage.
Now to get it off the truck..
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So found out after i put my first 3 clutch packs back in that i have to pull them back out. Not a big deal since it will only take about 15 mins. C clutch steels although light, had burn marks on all of them. I was going to reuse them but if they are warped or it continues to happen then it will lead to premature failure and that would completely go against what i am trying to achieve. So i ordered these guys:
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Last edited by kaineb; 10-20-2013 at 07:44 PM.
Member
Were you already replacing the friction plates?
As a side note: I got my old engine out of the car last weekend. It was leaking oil at every crevice--rear coolant cover had leaked some, rear main was leaking a little, oil pan a lot, alternator bracket a lot, timing cover, basically every single seal was leaking.. good job BMW!
Last edited by schpenxel; 10-22-2013 at 12:00 PM.
Wannabe Mechanic
Hey penxel,
Very nice on the progress, wow you are fast. Took me way longer but i tend to take my time. I have heard that the 545 is terrible for leaks. I really didnt have any but replaced every seal anyway. You should seriously consider doing the same since it is 1000000000000 percent easier out of the car. I do wonder is adding the 550 oil cooler to your car would help. I would think it would.
I was already doing a full rebuild but the steel plates i had hoped to get away with since they are another $300. So all of the seals, friction plates, steels, and torque converter will be replaced. And lucky me, the 6HP26 from the 550i has a much lower production number so the TC is twice the price than the 545. Nice!
Here is some progress i have made and after i removed the D,C, & B clutch packs for replacing the steels now.
Last edited by kaineb; 10-22-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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