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Thread: my home made OEM radio -> ipod controller.

  1. #51
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    Finally took some time to get the Optocoupler/isolated power supply version to work. I have my latest BMW driving so I'm now driving an E46 to work. This adds urgency for finishing up my 3rd ipod controller board (2nd one will stay in the wifes car.)

    With the ipod on pause and the volume full up we could not hear the alternator whine. The optocoupler and isolated power supply seems the way to go. Also very safe for the Arduino and ipod. The attached schematic is pretty much what is working. There is some fiddling I may do to optomize the circuit some more. the I/K bus side is working as drawn but at the time was using an older hardware setup of the ipod side. and FYI the program used does not change at all with these changes in hardware.

    As a side note I ordered some hardware to make some christmas presents for my BMW driving relatives.

    Thaniel

    edit: removed V5 design as improved versions are posted later in this tread.
    Last edited by Thaniel; 01-05-2014 at 10:23 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    Finally took some time to get the Optocoupler/isolated power supply version to work. I have my latest BMW driving so I'm now driving an E46 to work. This adds urgency for finishing up my 3rd ipod controller board (2nd one will stay in the wifes car.) With the ipod on pause and the volume full up we could not hear the alternator whine. The optocoupler and isolated power supply seems the way to go. Also very safe for the Arduino and ipod. The attached schematic is pretty much what is working. There is some fiddling I may do to optomize the circuit some more. the I/K bus side is working as drawn but at the time was using an older hardware setup of the ipod side. and FYI the program used does not change at all with these changes in hardware. As a side note I ordered some hardware to make some christmas presents for my BMW driving relatives. Thaniel
    sounds like you've almost got it perfected. cant wait for the final schematic and parts list.


  3. #53
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    I ended up getting a $17 radio dash kit on ebay and using my radio from my other car. It has RCA in and out so I used an RAC to female headphone jack adapter and installed it as an analog switch, ising male to male 1/4 headphone jack to plug in ipod to the newly installed aux input. Maybe I'll make a tutorial sometime showing how I did it. It's so much better with a real radio. So glad I did this.
    Last edited by BMWAccelerator; 12-06-2013 at 06:57 PM.

  4. #54
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    Glad to hear you have made progress a lot of family problems have been going on haven't had time for my car

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRPOWER View Post
    sounds like you've almost got it perfected. cant wait for the final schematic and parts list.
    Once I get a few more bugs out of the circuit I'll post up all the details. I need to make sure the charge Circuit works.

    Quote Originally Posted by silv3rwind View Post
    Glad to hear you have made progress a lot of family problems have been going on haven't had time for my car
    I know what you mean. I work on this inbetween other things just for fun. Often not much gets done.

    Quote Originally Posted by BMWAccelerator View Post
    I ended up getting a $17 radio dash kit on ebay and using my radio from my other car.
    Glad it's working out for you. I have 2 aftermaket car stereos with IPOD in AND aux in the basement just sitting from previous cars. (Alpine nice ones too). I think the rectangle aftermarket HU in the trapezodial OEM opening doesn't look good. And getting the steering wheel buttons to work with the HU can be more $ and a pain. And at $17 for the dash kit that's about half way too what the parts to build an ipod adapter is :-) But to each their own. Everyone can build their car to their liking.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRPOWER View Post
    sounds like you've almost got it perfected. cant wait for the final schematic and parts list.
    "final" is rather subjective. It's hard not to tweak things. But attached is what I think is a good working solution. I've added more detail and some notes to the schematic including a list of parts. The one I'm using currently is on a bread board and I've not put in R8. It works without R8 and at the moment I'm not making changes. See below.

    [edit: removed schematic as better one is posted later in the thread]

    One reason I'm not prepared to say it's final is that it consumes about 6mA from the i-bus to drive the optocoupler to read the ibus. To sink the i-bus I measured it took less than 60mA (might vary based on components attached). So using 6mA to run the ipod device seemed like a lot. It works but I thought would be better if it were much less. I did design an addition to cut that consumption way down. When I wired it up it didn't work but I think unrelated to the part on the Ibus current reduction (I made other changes at the same time). I got tired of things not working (mostly my errors in wiring) so went with the simpler circuit. Eventually I will try the low current circuit again. I'll wait awhile as it is nice to have it working at the moment :-)

    I have a few program changes I want to make. But it was nice to drive to work listening to the ipod in the car.

    Thaniel
    Last edited by Thaniel; 01-05-2014 at 10:25 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    "final" is rather subjective. It's hard not to tweak things. But attached is what I think is a good working solution. I've added more detail and some notes to the schematic including a list of parts. The one I'm using currently is on a bread board and I've not put in R8. It works without R8 and at the moment I'm not making changes. See below. <img src="http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=486823"/> One reason I'm not prepared to say it's final is that it consumes about 6mV from the i-bus to drive the optocoupler to read the ibus. To sink the i-bus I measured it took less than 60mV (might vary based on components attached). So using 6mV to run the ipod device seemed like a lot. It works but I thought would be better if it were much less. I did design an addition to cut that consumption way down. When I wired it up it didn't work but I think unrelated to the part on the Ibus current reduction (I made other changes at the same time). I got tired of things not working (mostly my errors in wiring) so went with the simpler circuit. Eventually I will try the low current circuit again. I'll wait awhile as it is nice to have it working at the moment :-) I have a few program changes I want to make. But it was nice to drive to work listening to the ipod in the car. Thaniel
    i dont %100 follow what the concern is with the higher voltage system and the ibus. are you concerned about it drawing to much power or burning out the ibus system in some way? or would you just rather it consumed less power for piece of mind? also the link seems broken but i am on my phone so that could be the reason.


  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRPOWER View Post
    i dont %100 follow what the concern is with the higher voltage system and the ibus. are you concerned about it drawing to much power or burning out the ibus system in some way? or would you just rather it consumed less power for piece of mind? also the link seems broken but i am on my phone so that could be the reason.
    My concern may be totally unfounded. And I'm making typos which I'm sure isn't helping. It's actually 6mA and 60mA (not mV).

    My thought is this. If I draw too much current pulling the bus too low the bus cannot transmit data (done this during testing). 6mA isn't enough to do it but what if there are other devices present doing the same thing? It could add up. I had seen on a totally different ibus project the person was not successful in it being used in all cars (the ibus interface was crude). Wondering if the high current draw of his device was the cause. At any rate 6mA is probably not worth worrying about and I should probably forget about it.

    The attachment is a .pdf seems to work for me (I'm using a PC). If you can't get it let me know.

  9. #59
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    yea i got it. phone wasnt displaying. thx for the clarification.


  10. #60
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    Me now driving the E46 is making this project easier. Went out to the car yesterday at lunch and upated the program. Then a few more changes last night. And correcting the program is like 10x easier than correcting the circuits IMO. Loving the ipod music on my drive. And no alternator whine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    Me now driving the E46 is making this project easier. Went out to the car yesterday at lunch and upated the program. Then a few more changes last night. And correcting the program is like 10x easier than correcting the circuits IMO. Loving the ipod music on my drive. And no alternator whine.
    so the updated program is still in that google doc right? and your running the " higher voltage" set up right now with no problems??


  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRPOWER View Post
    so the updated program is still in that google doc right? and your running the " higher voltage" set up right now with no problems??

    I'm still making daily updates to the program. Once I quit changing it all the time I'll repost it to google docs. The one currently on googledocs does work though. On the car I'm driving I'm using the one hardware that draws 6mA from the bus has no decernable differences on the car side. My wife's car is still using version 2 hardware. it works the same just has alternator whine. (I'll rework hers into version 3 hardware over the break.) I've experienced no issues with the bus traffic on any of my versions. Or in otherwords it doesn't interfere with the car's operation at all.

    As far as "no problems" with the whole device. Does windows (or Mac OS) run with "no problems".....Nope . No matter what, if I were to say there are no problems I'd likely be a liar. There are still some bugs and improvements needed. But this is where I'm at with debugging: I start the car in the morning. Music plays. I don't like a song I press skip and it skips. Song titles always appear on the radio when and as expected. The sound quality is superb with no detectable alternator whine (also really liking the harmon karman sound on this car) I turn off the car and the song is stopped (paused actually as stop looses it's place in the playlist). If the ipod is on random it stays on random (unlike the USA spec). And the ipod batteries are being charged.

    Things on my to do list:
    -Sample the ibus traffic between the CD changer and the car to see if there are any needed changes to my status messages. The HU will on occasion (not every drive) spontaneously, and unpredictably, switches to FM radio. It must be due to an improper response to a message. And perhaps that message is only rarely sent. When that happens pressing mode takes it right back to ipod. But it shouldn't happen.
    -Yesterday had an idea for how to change the song time elapsed counter to have the arduino count instead of always asking the ipod for the time elapsed. This could reduce the time after one song plays the end prior to putting up the next title.
    -Need to retest the menus. I've not spent time in the menus for awhile. The ipod I have in my car at the moment only has one playlist.
    -Add a check mid song of ipod shuffle status. The random flag on the radio can become out of sink as the radio on it's own shuts it off some times, though I don't allow the radio to change the shuffle status ipod. Or if connecting a new ipod the Arudino/HU doesn't know the random state.
    -Also been thinking about adding a feature that if the car is off for, say 5 min, that when it is turned back on it starts at a new song. I dislike leaving at the end of the day to the same song I got to work on. Trivial I know. But when it is a DIY it can be taylored to ones desires.

    Much like the fiddling with the hardware, it's hard when to say it's done enough :-) But at least for me, even how it is now, it is way better than the CD changer. And even better than the USA spec (I would always forget to press random after starting the car using the USA spec and that is so annoying anyway).

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    I'm still making daily updates to the program. Once I quit changing it all the time I'll repost it to google docs. The one currently on googledocs does work though. On the car I'm driving I'm using the one hardware that draws 6mA from the bus has no decernable differences on the car side. My wife's car is still using version 2 hardware. it works the same just has alternator whine. (I'll rework hers into version 3 hardware over the break.) I've experienced no issues with the bus traffic on any of my versions. Or in otherwords it doesn't interfere with the car's operation at all.

    As far as "no problems" with the whole device. Does windows (or Mac OS) run with "no problems".....Nope . No matter what, if I were to say there are no problems I'd likely be a liar. There are still some bugs and improvements needed. But this is where I'm at with debugging: I start the car in the morning. Music plays. I don't like a song I press skip and it skips. Song titles always appear on the radio when and as expected. The sound quality is superb with no detectable alternator whine (also really liking the harmon karman sound on this car) I turn off the car and the song is stopped (paused actually as stop looses it's place in the playlist). If the ipod is on random it stays on random (unlike the USA spec). And the ipod batteries are being charged.

    Things on my to do list:
    -Sample the ibus traffic between the CD changer and the car to see if there are any needed changes to my status messages. The HU will on occasion (not every drive) spontaneously, and unpredictably, switches to FM radio. It must be due to an improper response to a message. And perhaps that message is only rarely sent. When that happens pressing mode takes it right back to ipod. But it shouldn't happen.
    -Yesterday had an idea for how to change the song time elapsed counter to have the arduino count instead of always asking the ipod for the time elapsed. This could reduce the time after one song plays the end prior to putting up the next title.
    -Need to retest the menus. I've not spent time in the menus for awhile. The ipod I have in my car at the moment only has one playlist.
    -Add a check mid song of ipod shuffle status. The random flag on the radio can become out of sink as the radio on it's own shuts it off some times, though I don't allow the radio to change the shuffle status ipod. Or if connecting a new ipod the Arudino/HU doesn't know the random state.
    -Also been thinking about adding a feature that if the car is off for, say 5 min, that when it is turned back on it starts at a new song. I dislike leaving at the end of the day to the same song I got to work on. Trivial I know. But when it is a DIY it can be taylored to ones desires.

    Much like the fiddling with the hardware, it's hard when to say it's done enough :-) But at least for me, even how it is now, it is way better than the CD changer. And even better than the USA spec (I would always forget to press random after starting the car using the USA spec and that is so annoying anyway).
    I understand the need for perfection haha, ok well i'll give you a little more time to fiddle with the software before i attempt this build myself. most of what you listed as problematic for you are very minor concerns to me so either way let me know when you think it's ready for someone else to give it a shot. also will this work with the older head units that have an m where the mode button useualy is? i think it will since it's using the cd changer in the trunk and when i switch to cd it should just look at the deck in the back right?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by MRPOWER; 12-20-2013 at 03:29 PM.


  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRPOWER View Post
    I understand the need for perfection haha, ok well i'll give you a little more time to fiddle with the software before i attempt this build myself. most of what you listed as problematic for you are very minor concerns to me so either way let me know when you think it's ready for someone else to give it a shot. also will this work with the older head units that have an m where the mode button useualy is? i think it will since it's using the cd changer in the trunk and when i switch to cd it should just look at the deck in the back right?

    Thanks!

    Yesterday I completed my soldered version. It only had 2 errors in the soldering that needed corrected before it worked (schematic is correct but I had soldered incorrectly). Proved that it works with the R8 resistor and included that in the build. Also reworked the V2 harware I had V3. The reworking takes longer than building new I think. Unsoldering then soldering new takes more time than soldering. This time it worked first try. I may be getting better at this soldering thing.

    If you are interested I'd say go ahead and build. Software updates take only a minute to upload to the device and I can give you where ever i'm at at the time.

    I'm currently using the device on a 1999 E46 and a 2001 330i. one is a business CD and one is a tape player. Should work with the head units that have capabilities to work with the factory CD changer.

    As far as software updates: implemented the time remaining idea I had. It cut the traffic between the ipod and the Arduino. But more importantly it refreshes the song title right at the beginning of the new song. Well within 0.50 sec of the start of the song which is plenty fast.

    Thaniel
    Last edited by Thaniel; 12-22-2013 at 08:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    Yesterday I completed my soldered version. It only had 2 errors in the soldering that needed corrected before it worked (schematic is correct but I had soldered incorrectly). Proved that it works with the R8 resistor and included that in the build. Also reworked the V2 harware I had V3. The reworking takes longer than building new I think. Unsoldering then soldering new takes more time than soldering. This time it worked first try. I may be getting better at this soldering thing.

    If you are interested I'd say go ahead and build. Software updates take only a minute to upload to the device and I can give you where ever i'm at at the time.

    I'm currently using the device on a 1999 E46 and a 2001 330i. one is a business CD and one is a tape player. Should work with the head units that have capabilities to work with the factory CD changer.

    As far as software updates: implemented the time remaining idea I had. It cut the traffic between the ipod and the Arduino. But more importantly it refreshes the song title right at the beginning of the new song. Well within 0.50 sec of the start of the song which is plenty fast.

    Thaniel
    Great I think I'm gonna give it a shot over the holidays, any place online you recommend to order all the parts of a respectable quality for a decent price?


  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRPOWER View Post
    Great I think I'm gonna give it a shot over the holidays, any place online you recommend to order all the parts of a respectable quality for a decent price?
    I tend to order electronic components from Digikey. However for this project I bought the items from various places:

    12V-5V isolated power converter
    Ipod Dock Cable
    Arduino Mega clone

    The dock cable and mega clone I bought from china (through ebay) and took about 4 weeks to get here.

    Here is a picture of the pieces
    IMG_0234.jpg

    By the way I found the Prototype sheild I bought at Radioshack and it was a good price.

    The bits assembled and connected to an ipod.
    IMG_0248.jpg

    For reference my bread board version which works fine but is a bit of a mess.
    IMG_0247.jpg

    In other news i found that in my 1999 and 2000, when the car is started the power to the CD change drops and causes the circuit to ground the Kbus and making the radio go to "disabled". This does not happen in the 2001 330i that I've been running on the bread board version for some time now. And I hadn't noticed saturday when testing on the 199 as I tested with the serial monitor going and the PC was keeping the arduino from loosing power. Long story short I will be making a small revision to the ciruit and program. My son and I worked it out this morning and did some bench testing. By doing the ibus TX inverting in software we fix the grounding without power issue while simplifiying the circuit. So a win win. Something we had tried near the beginning but were unsuccessful. We have it on our bench version now. Just need to prove it in the car now and I'll post revised schematics and program. All the major parts are the same just some small routing and resistor changes.

    Thaniel

    Thaniel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    I tend to order electronic components from Digikey. However for this project I bought the items from various places:

    12V-5V isolated power converter
    Ipod Dock Cable
    Arduino Mega clone

    The dock cable and mega clone I bought from china (through ebay) and took about 4 weeks to get here.

    Here is a picture of the pieces
    IMG_0234.jpg

    By the way I found the Prototype sheild I bought at Radioshack and it was a good price.

    The bits assembled and connected to an ipod.
    IMG_0248.jpg

    For reference my bread board version which works fine but is a bit of a mess.
    IMG_0247.jpg

    In other news i found that in my 1999 and 2000, when the car is started the power to the CD change drops and causes the circuit to ground the Kbus and making the radio go to "disabled". This does not happen in the 2001 330i that I've been running on the bread board version for some time now. And I hadn't noticed saturday when testing on the 199 as I tested with the serial monitor going and the PC was keeping the arduino from loosing power. Long story short I will be making a small revision to the ciruit and program. My son and I worked it out this morning and did some bench testing. By doing the ibus TX inverting in software we fix the grounding without power issue while simplifiying the circuit. So a win win. Something we had tried near the beginning but were unsuccessful. We have it on our bench version now. Just need to prove it in the car now and I'll post revised schematics and program. All the major parts are the same just some small routing and resistor changes.

    Thaniel

    Thaniel
    ok great, I think im gonna wait for the revised circuit as I have a 2000 328ci and I fear I may have the same problem as you did in the 99. anyway i will start gathering parts . thanks and can't wait to get started !


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    Update:
    Due to the holiday didn't do much driving. But found that when I went out to drive the two cars with the home made ipod adapters batteries were dead. Oops. Guess driving it everyday the current draw was not noticed but leaving for a few days in a row drained the battery down. I'll look at adding a disconnect from the car similar to what I did for the ipod to arduino so it won't drain the battery.

    So I tossed the USA spec adapter into the car and drove that. I need to do some back to back comparisons but the USA Spec does not sound as clear. Makes me think they are using filters on the audo output for cleaning up the sound. It's a popular method for cleaning up engine noise but I refuse to do it as it can also filter out some of the music. I'll have to try them one right after the other to be sure.

    But progress is slow as my daughters E46 blew it's head gasket and I've taken the head off to repair it.
    Last edited by Thaniel; 12-30-2013 at 11:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    Update:
    Due to the holiday didn't do much driving. But found that when I went out to drive the two cars with the home made ipod adapters batteries were dead. Oops. Guess driving it everyday the current draw was not noticed but leaving for a few days in a row drained the battery down. I'll look at adding a disconnect from the car similar to what I did for the ipod to arduino so it won't drain the battery.

    So I tossed the USA spec adapter into the car and drove that. I need to do some back to back comparisons but the USA Spec does not sound as clear. Makes me think they are using filters on the audo output for cleaning up the sound. It's a popular method for cleaning up engine noise but I refuse to do it as it can also filter out some of the music. I'll have to try them one right after the other to be sure.

    But progress is slow as my daughters E46 blew it's head gasket and I've taken the head off to repair it.
    well keep us posted, ive already started ordering some parts. i may have my engineering buddy who is gonna help me with the build make the addition to the circuit if you don't get around to it because of ur other work. ill let you all know


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    Could you tap the 12v source from the radio remote turn on wire, so that the system is only powered when the radio is on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by natevolk View Post
    Could you tap the 12v source from the radio remote turn on wire, so that the system is only powered when the radio is on?
    the remote wire alone isn't enough to power a system it just sends an on signal. either way it would be a simple way to eliminate the power drain issue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MRPOWER View Post
    the remote wire alone isn't enough to power a system it just sends an on signal. either way it would be a simple way to eliminate the power drain issue.
    Right, that's what I was getting at. Maybe its even enough to power the whole arduino package and iPod charge circuit? Everything runs off 5v there (I think?) and shouldn't pull any current really. I just don't know if the program stuff will work with being turned on simultaneously with the head unit...

    I've ordered some stuff and I'll try to build it I'm not so good at reading diagrams. Maybe Thaniel would be interested in doing a PCB design that we could have printed?

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    Tried the USA. Spec and the home made controller back to back. Same car, same iPod, same song. Hands down the DIY sounds better. They must have put some filtering between the iPod audio out and he radio in. On mine it is straight from the iPod audio out to he bmw lines. So I have to get these working

    Quote Originally Posted by natevolk View Post
    Right, that's what I was getting at. Maybe its even enough to power the whole arduino package and iPod charge circuit? Everything runs off 5v there (I think?) and shouldn't pull any current really. I just don't know if the program stuff will work with being turned on simultaneously with the head unit...

    I've ordered some stuff and I'll try to build it I'm not so good at reading diagrams. Maybe Thaniel would be interested in doing a PCB design that we could have printed?
    not sure which remote line you are referring. But yes there are many ways to oner come the problem. ( Only thing that goes to the cd changer is ground, power, k bus and audio in. )

    Did some measuring with the unit idle and if i cut out the ipod i can get the Arduino down to 30mA. which isnt too bad (usa spec measures at 10 mA) so could just add a transistor controlled by the Arduino to cut out the iPod when the car is shut off. I've also worked out a circuit with a toggle circuit that will toggle on soon as any activity on the k bus happens (Voltage goes low for at all). And the Arduino could toggle it off and shut itself down after k bus activity stops. Need to refine it a bit more and optimize for low power consumption.

    id like to do a pcb but haven't found an easy economical way to get one produced. But I haven't looked too hard. My circuit keeps changing. Something I'm not happy about.

    Thaniel

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    2002 M3 Convertible
    Does the CD changer input power turn off with the radio or accessory power? What I was thinking was you could power the circuit off of something that turns itself on and off with either the car or the radio, so it won't drain the battery. The remote line is in the harness. I think it's labeled "mute" and people use it to turn on their additional amplifiers. I don't know if it goes to the cd changer cable or not… My wife keeps taking the car (it is hers anyway) so I can't tinker at all. Thanks again for the info and sharing your project. I love it!

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Kilmarnock, VA
    Posts
    1,873
    My Cars
    E53, E90, Triumph GT6
    Got my turn on and off test circuit working on the bench. It draws 2.6mA from power when off and 0.2mA from the kbus (when off). That's about 1/4 the current draw of the store bought iPod controller. Should be low enough. Working on updating the schematic. On the bad side it uses quite a few transistors and resistors. Cost wise is no big deal but adds more soldering.

    next step is in car testing. (Again)


    Quote Originally Posted by natevolk View Post
    Does the CD changer input power turn off with the radio or accessory power? What I was thinking was you could power the circuit off of something that turns itself on and off with either the car or the radio, so it won't drain the battery. The remote line is in the harness. I think it's labeled "mute" and people use it to turn on their additional amplifiers. I don't know if it goes to the cd changer cable or not… My wife keeps taking the car (it is hers anyway) so I can't tinker at all. Thanks again for the info and sharing your project. I love it!
    ah, must be part of the phone integration. It is an idea and could be made to work if one wanted to run some wire. I tested the power lead to the cd changer and during my test it stayed powered. I left it overnight with test leads hanging out of the trunk si I could test without "waking up". The car.

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