I thought both positions were reduced ackerman from stock, and wouldn't the inboard position mean more ackerman? Maybe I don't understand ackerman.
Edited
Last edited by SLEEPYDUB; 06-07-2013 at 08:23 PM.
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Just got an alignment for this Sunday @ Rd 3. Will report back how it goes
-5* F
0* R
1* front toe out total
1.4* toe-in rear (.70* each side)
non-M rack
7.5* caster
Mike
IG: @mikevanshellenbeck
okay, the weekends results!!!!
zero ackerman position on slr kit 2* toe out:
Handled okay, decent self steer up to about 80% lock, twitchy in the straights and scary at speeds over 100 while driving. Great initiation capability due to the massive toe out. Good mid drift control. VERY hard on the inside of the front tires>>left foot braking caused inside tire lockup almost immediately.
Zero ackerman 0* toe:
Sucks, no self steer at all and left foot brake=wheel pulls into turn not out of it!
Stock ackerman on SLR 0* toe:
Handled great, decent self steer up to about 80% lock, stable in the straights and fine at speeds over 100 while driving (there was some vibration, but I did the alignment a the track and I have +20mm wheels with 20mm spacers!). good initiation capability. Good mid drift control. much easier on the inside of the front tires>>left foot braking was much more controllable.
I actually shot video of my hands while drifting the course. It is possible to see how much more effort the car is with the different alignments. Still not perfect but its getting better. I also took about 10 runs with each setting. I will be adjusting toe in and out from here. I also plan to remove front camber to see the effects.
Note: The 2* toe out setting pretty much ruined my RS3's in about 20 runs! I flopped them to test the other settings and the 0* toe with stock ackerman had no abnormal wear on the tires!!
so 0 ackerman bad
Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?
That's probably because your moving the pickup to the low/ "Zero" ackerman setting caused you to gain a bunch of toe-out.
Zero ackerman at lock would mean less tire wear considering both tires would be pointed the same way and be travelling in the same arc with parallel toe, no?
My V1 setup had supposedly 0 ackerman, or actually -2* negative ackerman at lock, and my front tire wear was amazing. I ran over a year and at least 10 events with the same fronts. It eventually scrubbed the outside of them enough that I changed them because I was getting sketched out looking at them.
From my minimal test time this past weekend, I LOVED my current setup. It felt really controllable and dialed in, but that just may be because all my previous steering setups have sucked and I just made them work or drove around it.
-5* camber
8* caster
1* toe out total up front
235/40-17 tire on 18x8-2 with V1 arms and V4 blocks
Rear
0* camber
1.4* total toe in
265/35-18 tire on 18x10.5+0
Rear I'm still wearing the insides too much and can't really figure it out. At 0 toe, it "camber wears" the insides really bad, which makes no sense. I used to run stiffer rear springs, and would get perfectly even rear wear at 890 lb springs, -.25* camber, .6* total toe in. Now I have 560 lb rear springs, so more camber gain on throttle, or so I thought.... at 0* camber, 0* toe, it wore the inside horribly. At +0.5* camber, 0* toe, it still wore the inside. Now I'm back to 0* camber, and 1.4* total toe in (Chelsea runs even more than this and -0.5* camber and claims perfectly even wear).
Hmm. Got the front dialed in but still learning on the rear..
Mike
IG: @mikevanshellenbeck
Hi Levi, you say you did adjust the toe back to zero when swapping between the race and drift settings on the plates?
Also can you list what lollipops you're using and what caster setting?
Your symptoms sound very indicative of having low caster settings, especially via the lollipop (caster at the strut only changes caster, and slightly alters bump-steer) caster at the lollipop changes wheelbase also, which will affect the rack-to-steering-arm position. The more forward the knuckles are positioned relative to the rack, the more ackerman the car will develop which is part of the reason all the SLR arm configurations use 96+ M3 geometry.
Also we recently came out with a medium ackerman shim plate if you'd like to try it just let me know.
Regards,
Sean
I am running centered stock 95 M3 bushings. Max Caster on GC camber plates. This decision was based on the fact that I have 95 M3 knuckles and the akg bushings are centered. Should I switch over to offset bushings? I was debating some treehouse bushings but decided not to because they were offset IIRC.
I really need to go to bed earlier!
Stock 95 M3 bushings should be offset not centered. 96+ were centered because BMW added the caster on the arms, but there may be some 95/96 overlap parts.
Regardless, our arms are designed to be run with centered bushings, but plenty of guys use them with offset for super-caster. With the extra wheelbase created by the offset bushings (yea treehouse are offset geometry too) you might rub the fender well at lock.
I was confused when I wrote that LOL. I knew I had the centered bushing for a reason. The e46 arms are made for the centered bushings also right??
Ok, I'm really trying to figure this out, and now it all makes sense. The E46 arms need more offset on the E36 chassis for optimal KPI. There's nothing out there right now to mount the hex arm end to the E36 with offset, but we're releasing the hex-insert for our adjustable lollipops very soon. Or you can round your hex ends and use whatever offset bushing you like. This will help massively and also increase your ackerman by positioning the balljoints further ahead of the rack.
Sorry I didn't catch the E46 arm part earlier, I just can't keep up with who has what parts anymore
I just rounded mine out and smoothed it down. Not the best thing but it works.
Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?
Mine are already rounded and polished. No issue there. I just spent an hour researching this and found contradicting info as usual. Let me see if I have this right.
E46 arms need offset bushings
SLR arms need centered bushings
If I install offset bushings, I know that my wheels will hit the front bumper while turning. Are others having this issue?
mine did with 95 m3 arms, but my wheels look like roughly 10mm behind the center of the fender well. this is why the adjustable lollipops are cool :/
I'm on E46 arms with centered and it works great.
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no I was talking about my last/original setup, I had 95 m3 arms, thr eyeballs, and 95 m3 knuckles
@MikeE36..
your rear tire issue's with 0 camber most likely has to do with softer springs.. more grip which means the car is squatting... the only way i see you being able to fix the issue is one or a combo of the following.
1. Slightly stiffer rear spring ( Probably will hurt rear grip )
2. Adjust your rear dampening.
3. Positive rear camber? maybe .5 each side? I dont know if this is even possible with E36 adjustable control arms
I could be completely wrong with all 3 of those... some one who knows more could possibly enlighten both of us.
E30 Turbo 2.8L - 60ft - 1.70 :: 1/8th - 6.99 :: MPH - 105.47 :: 1/4 - 10.66 :: MPH - 132.53
Daily E36 M3 - 60ft - 1.790 :: 1/8th - 8.20 :: MPH - 84.68 :: 1/4 - 12.81 :: MPH - 107.05
*RIP* E36 M3 - 60ft - 1.944 :: 1/8th - 8.64 :: MPH - 80.00 :: 1/4 - 13.55 :: MPH - 99.95
Cool2seat's TTstg1 E36 M3 - 60ft - 2.123 :: 1/8th - 8.44 :: MPH - 87.71 :: 1/4 - 12.94 :: MPH - 107.95
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