Torque converter question

[w12a3d]

Five days ago I replaced the engine and after that I was driving one day. During the ride could be heard tapping from transmission. Suddenly, the car did not want to drive, D, R, 123, nothing worked. how can I check the torque converter or transmission to be sure what the problem is? Tomorrow I will replace the transmission filter and fluid. Shifter changing positions and prints it on the display. Transmission oil level is on the max.

[shogun]

Often it is a problem to get the torque converter properly installed. There is a instruction here on European Transmissions dot com
direct link http://www.europeantransmissions.com...rter_insta.htm

copied from above link:

Important Torque Converter Installation Tips

1.PREPARE THE CRANKSHAFT AND TORQUE CONVERTER FOR INSTALLATION

a)always check crankshaft for burrs and out of round
b)remove rust with emery and lightly grease pocket
c)remove paint ffrom conveter crank pilot with emery
d)pour one quart of ATF into the converter
e)check the flex plate for cracks and worn teeth
f)install the converter on front of the transmission

2. CHECK CONVERTER TO FLEX PLATE ALIGNMENT

a)after bell housing bolts are tight, the check free movement of converter. It should have 1/16 to 1/8" of clearance between pads on converter and flex plate. If you have more than 1/16 to 1/8", install equal thickness washers to reduce clearance to 1/16 to 1/8". If not enough clearance, remove transmission and check to see if converter is seated in front pump properly.
b)draw converter bolts up evenly so as not to pull converter into a bind causing vibration and pump bushing failure.
c)if vibration occurs after installation, mark converter to flex plate and rotate the converter one bolt hole at a time.

3) the number one cause of vibration is failure to prepare crankshaft for installation. Each time the converter is installed without sanding out the crankshaft rust, removing the paint from converter pilot and adding a little grease the converter may be drawn up crooked with the first bolt, causing the converter to run- out and usually ruining the pump bushing.
The 2nd most common complaint on converters is a whine after installation. This usually means too much clearance between converter pads and flex plate. This draws the converter hub too far out of the pump drive gear causing the gear to rock.


Then I found on the Landrover Forum this information:

When re-fitting the ZF autobox it is essential that the torque converter is sitting at the correct depth relative to the face of the bell housing before the engine is bolted back on to the bell housing. If it is not set at the correct depth it is a 99% certainty that when the bolts are tightened the gearbox oil pump will get smashed.

The depth is determined from the serial number of the gearbox:

The box code is the last 3 digits of the second number down on the name plate on the left hand side of the autobox.

Box Code.....................Depth in mm

061.................................. 22

064....................................22

065....................................27

332....................................51

593....................................51

699....................................51

727....................................27

728....................................83

740....................................51

741....................................51

742....................................51

744....................................18

748....................................18

747....................................27

757....................................27

759....................................27

763....................................83

764....................................27

765....................................27

766....................................96

767....................................27

768....................................83

769....................................83

The measurement is made as shown in the following diagram:


http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/a.../TCFitting.jpg

http://www.lro.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7463

More transmission info on

http://www.europeantransmissions.com...BMWtechlib.htm

[w12a3d]

Do you think it is damaged pump in the gearbox or just need to reinstall per the specifications? Thank you Shogun, your tips are very useful!

Transmission is 5HP18 or A5S310Z

[shogun]

It could be the case that the pump is not correctly installed. I would try that first. Or remove one of the cooling lines and see if the pump works.

[w12a3d]

I disconnected the upper pipe to see if the oil is flowing, it does not flow.

[shogun]

your E32 735 has a ZF 4HP22 automatic transmission.
If no oil is coming with running engine and going thru the gears, then it is probably a assmebling fault.

Copied:

Check List for fitting ZF Autobox

Please note that a good 50% of our "warranty returns" are due to two basic installation errors.

1)debris and contamination in the oil cooler and oil cooler lines, even if you have flushed them out this is no guarantee they are clean, if the old box has suffered a bad failure you would be wise to replace these.

2)broken oil pump, by not fitting the torque converter correctly, read below.


Assembly

Check engine to bellhousing and Autobox to transfer case dowels are all fitted.

It is very important that you locate and install your torque converter correctly. One of the most common causes of failure is the torque converter not being located correctly onto the pump before fitting causing the pump to be broken on start up.
To avoid this we would suggest that you stand the autobox upright and lower the torque converter into the bellhousing.

When the torque converter has fully located onto the pump it is essential to then measure the distance from the bellhousing front face to the torque converter feet ( also known as the flange that the flexplate is bolted to).

Once the torque converter is inserted and checked make sure it does not fall forward when offering the autobox up to the engine. Do not be tempted to pull the gearbox into position with the bellhousing bolts, it should fully locate on the engine with no gap between the bellhousing and engine block.

With the autobox fitted to the engine, check that the converter will rotate freely and has a small amount (about 2mm) of end float. Bolt the converter to the flex plate using loctite or similar on the thread of the bolts.

Ensure the breather vents well away from the exhaust.

Source: http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co...d&productId=51
this is especially for Landrover problems, but the fitting is the same.

More ZF info
http://www.disgruntledgoat.com/conte...ar/ZF4HP22.php
According to ZF's website the 24 is rated to 450Nm of Torque the 22 is rated to 350..


Or go to ZF.com when the site works it is a good resource.

Warning: Care Needed when Reinstalling Engine or Transmission
Nathan Tucker offers this warning based on his experience of the transmission pump being damaged in the process of replacing the engine. He reports: "I removed the engine for a little work and never removed the torque converter, but alas it slipped a little on the slines that it sets on and during the refitting process I inadvertantly pushed the TC against the pump in an incorrect manner and upon start up of the engine broke the drive gear of the the pump making replacment neccessary, and totally negating the savings from removing and refitting my engine. I ordered a rebuilt pump and had a shop install it to the tune of $900. The couple of shops I called when trying to diagnose the problem (which was not enough pressure in the trans and thus making all gears act as if they were neutral) said that to be absolutely sure that the TC is fully seated correctly that they actually stand the trannies on end. I personnally have never seen it, but they said there are some that are real 'touchy'. I didn't notice anything incorrect when refitting the engine, nor did the work-shop manual mention anything about the TC, only that it must be 50cm from the end of the bell-housing. I have replaced/installed about 3-4 engines in mostly older american cars and never had any problems... "

http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdet...ansrepair.html

[w12a3d]

Transmission has been changed a long time ago, at 100 km / h hit the 5th speed. Today we release the bolts on the TC but there was no change. In the morning, take off our gear and we'll know more. thanks

[shogun]

old thread, but here they show how to install a torque converter correctly, was looking for that as I just read on another forum that someone did it wrong and destroyed the splines, often happens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdsbVCDgUs
http://www.hughesperformance.com/tor...ter-episode-7/

[w12a3d]

That's happen to me. Changed the oil pump gear and was back on the road.

[Annddrriy]

Question about zf 4hp22 one of the transmission mechanic rebuild transmission and valve body all gears shift good except from 2nd to 3rd big strong kick to driveshaft after few weeks I try to shift M mode to fill how it works all gears on that mode all good after that i shift to E mode and try to drive problem came from first gear shift to second when drive on first gear RPM goes up to 3000 than shift to second gear why is like that before was good ? Thanks in advance !

[shogun]

download this ZF powertrain ZF automatic transmission service manual, in total 74 pages http://gershon.ucoz.com/ZF/powertrain-zf.pdf from page 32 is a detailed fault diagnosis, item 1.3.6 , on pages 34-38 is a detailed fault finding chart showing problem...possible cause...action
there you find also details about harsh changes at low throttle, full throttle, kick-down etc

Here for 5HP18, basically same for 4HP22/24

Troubleshooting BMW A5S 310Z ZF 5HP18
Condition.... Cause.... Remedy

Position : Park position does not engage

a) Shift linkage between selector lever and transmission maladjusted
b) Excessive friction in parking lock mechanism

a) Adjust selector lever, refer to 24 00 007
b) Replace parking lock parts (connecting rod, pawl),refer to 24 34 006
-----------
Park position does not hold (slips)

Shift linkage between selector lever and transmission maladjusted

Adjust selector lever, refer to 24 00 007
--------------------------
Engine cannot be started in N or P, or can be started in all positions
a) Shift linkage between selector lever and transmission maladjusted
b) Transmission switch faulty. Starter motor inhibit relay or power line defective

a) Adjust selector lever, refer to 24 00 007
b) Replacing transmission switch, refer to 25 16 080. Replacing/repairing relay between inlet lines
---------------------
Position R : No reverse gear

a) Shift linkage between selector lever and transmission maladjusted
b) Clutch B destroyed
c) Brake D destroyed In this case also no engine braking effect in position 2,1st gear
d) Brake G destroyed
e) Refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"

a) Adjust selector lever, refer to 24 00 007
b) Exchange transmission, refer to 24 00 046
c) Exchange transmission, refer to 24 00 046
d) Exchange transmission, refer to 24 00 046
------------------------
Hard engaging jolt P-R or N-R
a) Idling speed too high
b) Refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"

a) Refer to Test Plan
-------------------
Backup lights do not light up (electrics OK)
a) Transmission switch faulty
b) Shift actuation between selector lever and transmission incorrectly set

a) Replace transmission switch, refer to 25 16 080
b) Adjust selector lever, refer to 24 00 007
-------------------
Car moves or creeps
a) Shift linkage between selector lever and transmission maladjusted
b) Clutch A defective (welded solid)

a) Adjust selector lever, refer to 24 00 007
b) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
--------------------------
Position D: No power transmission
a) Clutch A destroyed
b) 1st gear one-way Gear defective
c) Shift linkage between selector lever and transmission maladjusted

a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
b) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
c) Adjust selector lever, refer to 24 00 007
----------------
Hard shift impact N - D > 1500 rpm
a) Idling speed too high
b) Also refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"

a) Refer to Inspection Manual
-----------------
No shift (warm or cold)
Refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
------------------
No shift: Shift 1-2
a) Brakes C1 and 2 faulty
b) Insufficient oil supply to brakes C1 and C2

a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
b) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
---------------------
Shift 2-1
Refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
----------------
Shift 2-3
a) Clutch F faulty
b) Insufficient oil supply to clutch F

a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
b) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
----------------
Shift 3-2
Refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
--------------
Shift 3-4
a) Clutch E faulty
b) Insufficient oil supply to clutch E

a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
b) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
-----------------
No braking effect:Shift 4-3
a) Brake band C2 faulty; in this case shift 1-2 not OK
b) Insufficient oil supply to brake C2

a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
b) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
------------------
No shift:Shift 4-5>>>Refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
----------------
No shift:Shift 5-4>>>Refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
----------------------
No shift:Shift 5-4
Clutch A faulty, in this case no 1st ... 4th gear
Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
---------------
Shift from full load to kickdown too long
a) Plates broken
b) Also refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"

a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
-----------------
Engine spins in shift 2-1
a) Poor friction torque at plates
b) 1st gear one-way Gear not OK
a)b) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
---------------
Engine spins in shift 2-3/3-2
a) Poor friction torque at plates
b) Also refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"

a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
-----------------------
Engine spins in shift 4-3
a) Poor friction torque at plates
b) 3rd gear one-way Gear not OK
a)b) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
-----------------
Engine spins in shift 4-5/5-4
a) Poor friction torque at plates
b) Also refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
-------------------
No engine braking effect, no manual downshift 5-4
a) Clutch A damaged
b) Also refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
-------------
No engine braking effect, no manual downshift 4-3/3-2
a) Refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
-------------------
No 1st gear, no braking action
a) Brake D faulty
b) Also refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
a) Replace converter, refer to 24 40 006
------------------
No converter lockup clutch
a) Torque converter faulty
b) Also refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
a) Replace converter, refer to 24 40 006
--------------
Engine dies when moving off in Drive (converter lockup clutch always engaged)
a) Torque converter faulty
b) Also refer to "Troubleshooting Valve Body"
a) Replace converter, refer to 24 40 006
-------------------
No positive engagement in forward or reverse
a) Driver pressed off impeller
a) Exchange transmission,refer to 24 00 046
-------------------
Noise: Noise in all positions
a) ATF level too low
b) Valve body leaks
c) Oil strainer dirty
d) Round seal on oil filter missing/faulty

a) Correct ATF level, refer to 24 00 026
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
c) Replace oil strainer, refer to 24 31 156
d) Replace round seal, refer to 24 31 156
----------------
Leaks Oil dripping from converter bell housing
a) Round seal on oil pump body leaks
b) Round seal on pump body leaks
c) Radial oil seal for converter leaks

a) Replace round seal, refer to 24 31 020
b) Replace round seal, refer to 24 31 020
c) Replace radial oil seal, refer to 24 31 020
---------------
Leak between transmission case and oil sump
a) Mounting bolts loose
b) Gasket faulty

a) Tighten bolts. For tightening torque, refer to Technical Data
b) Replace gasket, refer to 24 11 008
---------------
Leaks Output leaks
a) Radial oil seal for output flange leaks
b) O-ring for transmission extension leaks

a) Replace radial oil seal, refer to 24 12 016
b) Replace O-ring, refer to 24 12 016
-------------
Manual shift valve shaft leaks
Radial oil seal faulty
Replace radial oil seal, refer to 24 12 106
---------------
Transmission plug leaks
a) Plugs loose
b) Seals faulty
a) Tighten plugs For tightening torque, refer to Technical Data
b) Replace seals
------------------
Oil cooler pipes leak
a) Oil cooler pipes loose
b) O-rings faulty

a) Tighten oil cooler pipes. For tightening torque, refer to Technical Data
b) Replace O-rings
-------------------
Position R: No power transmission in reverse
a) Signal wire to solenoid 3 grounded
b) Valve piston for reverse gear lock not in parked position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
-------------------
Hard engaging jolt in position R
a) Damper of brake D malfunctions
b) Modulation pressure too high
c) Wire to pressure regulator faulty
d) Pressure regulator faulty

a) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
b) Replace pressure regulator, refer to 24 34 861
c) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
d) Replace pressure regulator, refer to 24 34 861
------------------
Position D : No power transmission forwards
a) Damper A blocked
b) Signal wire to solenoid 5 grounded

a) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
b) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
----------------
Hard engaging jolt in position D
a) Damper of clutch A malfunctions
b) Wire to pressure regulator faulty
c) Pressure regulator faulty
d) Modulation valve malfunctions

a) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
b) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
c) Replace pressure regulator, refer to 24 34 861
d) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
--------------------
Hard shift jolts in general
a) Modulation valve malfunctions
b) Wire to pressure regulator faulty
c) Pressure regulator faulty

a) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
b) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 34 501
c) Replace pressure regulator, refer to 24 34 861
------------------
Position D:No shift 1-2
a) Wire to output speed sensor faulty
b) Output speed sensor faulty
c) Signal wire to solenoid 1 grounded
d) Shift valve 1 seized in parked position
e) Damper C2 or clutch valve C1 seized
f) Shift valve 3 seized in parked position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace speed sensor,refer to 24 34 871
c) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
d) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
e) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
f) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
---------------------
No shift 2-1
a) Signal or positive wire to solenoid 1 faulty
b) Solenoid 1 faulty
c) Shift valve seized in pushed position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace solenoid 1, refer to 24 34 853
c) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
----------------
No shift 2-3
a) Signal wire to solenoid 2 faulty
b) Solenoid 2 faulty
c) Shift valve 2 seized in pushed position
d) Pulling valve 2-3 seized in parked position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace solenoid 2, refer to 24 34 853
c) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
d) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
--------------------
No shift 3-2
a) Signal or positive wire to solenoid 2 faulty
b) Shift valve seized in parked position
c) Pulling valve 2-3 seized in pushed position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
c) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
-------------------
Position D:No shift 3-4
a) Signal wire to solenoid 3 grounded
b) Solenoid 3 faulty
c) Shift valve seized in pushed position
d) Damper E seized

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace solenoid 3, refer to 24 34 853
c) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
d) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
--------------------
No shift 4-3
a) Signal or positive lead to SV 1 defective
b) Shift valve 4 seized in parked position
c) Damper C2 blocked

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
c) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
-------------------
No shift 5-4
a) Signal wire to solenoid 1 grounded
b) Solenoid 1 faulty
c) Shift valve 4 seized in pushed position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace solenoid 1, refer to 24 34 853
c) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
----------------------
Car moves off in 2nd gear engaged
a) Signal or positive wire to solenoid 1 faulty, in this case no 5th gear
b) Shift valve 1 seized in parked position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
--------------------
Car moves off in 3rd gear engaged
a) Signal or positive wire to solenoids 1 and 2 faulty
b) Shift valves 1 and 2 seized in parked position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
----------------
Car moves off in 4th gear engaged
a) General positive wire faulty (transmission without current)
b) Shift valves 1, 2 and 3 seized in parked position

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
---------------
Shift transitions in zero load positions, full load shifts too hard

a) Modulation valve function not O.K.
b) Wire to pressure regulator faulty
c) Pressure regulator faulty
d) Damper malfunctions

a) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
b) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
c) Replace pressure regulator, refer to 24 34 861
d) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
---------------------
Shift transitions of full load and kickdown shifts too long

a) Pressure reducing valve 1 or 2 not O.K.
b) Modulation valve function not O.K.
c) Pressure regulator faulty

a) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
c) Replace pressure regulator, refer to 24 34 861
------------------------------
Engine dies from shift 2-3/3-2 (overlapped control)

a) Signal or positive lead to SV 4 defective
b) Solenoid 4 faulty
c) Pull/push valve 1 moves too hard
d) Aperture for damper G clogged
e) Damper F moves too hard
f) Pull valve 2-3/3-2 moves too hard


a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace solenoid 4, refer to 24 34 853
c) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
d) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
e) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
f) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
------------------------
Engine dies from shift 4-5/5-4 (overlapped control)

a) Signal or positive lead to SV 5 defective
b) Solenoid 5 faulty
c) Pull/push valve 2 moves too hard
d) Damper C2 malfunctions
e) Pull valve 4-5/5-4 moves too hard
f) Damper A moves too hard

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace solenoid 5, refer to 24 34 853
c) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
d) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
e) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
f) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
---------------------
Converter lockup clutch - Shift transitions too hard
Converter clutch function impaired
Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
------------------
No converter lockup clutch

a) Signal or positive wire to solenoid 6 faulty
b) Solenoid 6 faulty

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace solenoid 6, refer to 24 34 853
--------------------
Engine dies when stopping car in drive position (converter lockup
clutch always engaged)

a) Signal wire to solenoid 6 grounded
b) Converter lockup clutch valve seized in pushed position
c) Solenoid 6 faulty

a) Repair/replace wire harness, refer to 24 35 501
b) Replace valve body, refer to 24 30 006
c) Replace solenoid 6, refer to 24 34 853
----------------
Shift speed and shift quality generally not O.K.

Temperature sensor not O.K.

Replace wiring harness,refer to 24 35 501
-----------------

Troubleshooting peripherals

Idling speed control (throttle valve electronic engine power
control)
Wrong shift points, oscillating shifts

a) Engine idling speed too high or too low
b) Idling speed control valve faulty

a) Refer to Test Plan
b) Replace idle speed control valve, refer to 13 41 500
--------------------
Kickdown switch
No kickdown shifts, only partial load/full load shifts

a) Wire harness faulty
b) Kickdown switch faulty
c) Kickdown switch maladjusted

a) Repair wire harness
b) Replace kickdown switch, refer to 35 41 480
c) Check adjustment, refer to 35 41 480
-----------------
Program switch: No S program or only S program

a) Signal wire to program switch faulty
b) Program switch faulty

a) Repair wire harness
b) Replace program switch, refer to 61 31 265
---------------------
No W program or only W program

a) Signal wire to program switch faulty
b) Program switch faulty

a) Repair wire harness
b) Replace program switch,refer to 61 31 265
----------------
Position switch (selector lever):No shifts Car remains in shifted gear

a) No positive supply/fuse faulty
b) Signal wire faulty
c) Switch faulty

a) Replace fuse
b) Repair wire harness
c) Replace switch, refer to 25 16 080
---------------------------------------------------------------------
such hard shift shocks can also come from a defective throttle position sensor.

[Annddrriy]

today weather change to more windy and air more dry and transmission shifting issue gone back to smooth shifting as suppose to be. Is there any sensor witch control shifting solenoid from 1st gear to 2nd ? yesterday was delay by RPM up to 3000 from first to second gear and today is okay RPM 1500 shift to second from first.

[shogun]

what were the engine temperatures, speed, throttle positions then?
study the link I posted above. There is for example mentioned: the automatic shift points are determined by accelerator position and road speed. Hydraulic control is shown in figure 1 diagram.
Item 2.1.4 describes the control unit, it receives from the Motronic (DME) also signals, for examples in winter you will notice that shifting to next higher gear is delayed, this is to get the engine as fast as possible to operating temperature.
Read item 2.1.5
2.1.13 shows all 55 pins of the Transmission Control Unit (TCU), there you see all the inputs the TCU receives, among others oil temperature sensor input, throttle position input, vehicle speed input, engine speed input,....
often a defective throttle position sensor can cause hard shifting too.

[whiskychaser]

Shogun has given you some great pointers. As he points out, it very important to know the exact circumstances in which you are having issues. Comparing winter mode and economy mode is not a true reflection. Winter mode is designed to start you off in a higher gear and maintain less torque so you do not spin the rear wheels. But if you do not have enough torque for a gear change in economy mode, it will be delayed until the revs are higher. Yes, there are shift valves for each gear change and you can find them fairly easily. But unless a valve is physically stuck, it only acts when commanded by the TCM.

Knowing the background would be useful. For example, why the trans and VB were overhauled in the first place and what your mechanic says about the issues

[Annddrriy]

I didn't ask mechanic yet about that issue because after one day when whether change to more warm the issue gone. What you recommend for to switch the E and M mode in what temperature outside to shift M mode ? +6C° should be okay start M mode any idea ? I'm not writing about snow on road the wheel can slip I'm writing about suction through air filter because air more cold than +14C°.

[shogun]

Normal is E mode under all conditions summer and winter. M is special mode mainly for winter, for towing etc https://750il.bmw7.hu/owners_manual/images/page_029.jpg
Check once more the transmission fluid level, for the 4HP22:
4HP22/24 with dipstick and filling from top thru dipstick pipe: 1988 E32 owners manual states on page 63: automatic transmission, checking oil level: the car must be standing on a level surface with the transmission at operating temperature 80 degree Celsius. Allow the engine to idle with the selector lever at P or N. Pull out the dipstick, wipe it with a non-fluffy cloth and push it back to measure the oil level. It must be between the two notch marks.
The quantity of oil represented by the space between the two marks on the dipstick is approx. 0.3 liter when the transmission is at operating temperature. If necessary, add fresh ATF at the oil level check pipe.

[whiskychaser]

In your original post, you said the trans was fine in winter mode but the engine revs high between first and second in economy mode. The car does not set off in first gear in winter mode so you are just masking the symptoms associated with that gear change. So it is important to check how it operates in normal conditions.

If you refer to Shogun's table, you can see that poor shifting can be caused by a faulty temperature sensor. But I am not about to suggest you change it unless you have done some testing and proved it to be faulty. That is why it is important to establish the background as well as what issues you have and when.

[Annddrriy]

Yes exactly one's shifted from M mode to E mode and next day begins to lower revs around 2500 and than 2000 and came to normal 1500 it shifts good now seems to me was still in memory M mode and slowly adapt to E mode it like something was going on with CAN Bus communication any idea how it works ? Thanks!

[shogun]

E32 has no CAN Bus system, just normal wiring system. M is not memory mode, M = manual shift program.
Do you see the selected system E, S, M and the gear positions D, 3, 2, 1, N in the check control in the cluster?
If not: Shift Console: removal, shift selector contacts cleaning, A/M switch cleaning, http://www.nmia.com/~dgnrg/page_13.htm

[whiskychaser]

The only 'adaptation' the E32 trans has is that it adjusts the clutches for wear automatically. It does not remember how it has been driven. It does not have a CAN bus as such but the DME does pass information such as the throttle position, engine speed and road speed to the TCM. The TCM then decides if it is appropriate to change gear.

[Annddrriy]

Yes probably road speed sensor gave wrong info to the TCU and to not shift at 1500 but shift at 3000 as was happened that day.

[shogun]

If your road speed signal is not working correct, clean the speed sensor and the connection wires on the sensor http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Mainte...eed_sensor.htm