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Thread: BoldUlysses' 540i/6 Log & Thread o' Questions

  1. #226
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    I have the exact opposite! HID lows and OEM fogs. Planning on HIDs all 4?
    - Hans - Mauritiusblau Metallic - Ultimate Klasse - Progress Thread: LINK



  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binjammin View Post
    Those are DDM 35w 6000k in the fogs. Car looks the business man.
    Thanks to you. Appreciate the info. I'm edumacating myself re:lighting; it's new territory for me. Question: Assuming I do the LKM mod, can I run the fogs without the ballasts? One of the big advantages of HIDs versus halogens is the low power draw, yes? And the ballasts all but eliminate that advantage?

    Quote Originally Posted by K Fox View Post
    I'm jealous...mine blows the fuse after about 10 secs with HID's in my fogs. Didn't do it with the halogens in, so it's gotta be the HID's...But with that said, I actually prefer the fogs to have regular bulbs - it actually makes a difference in foul weather. Halogens let you see better than the HID's (due to the color of the HID's - too blue compared to regular bulbs). Still, they do look good...

    Fox
    I've yet to have a set of fogs on any of my cars that I feel make a noticable difference in, well...fog. As far as my experience, they're just there for styling and for a bit of additional lighting.

    Also I spoke too soon---the "F FOG LIGHT" warning is intermittent now. Guess it's time to dive into the LKM...

    Quote Originally Posted by staystackin View Post
    I have the exact opposite! HID lows and OEM fogs. Planning on HIDs all 4?
    Would like to. I guess if I have 6000K in the fogs I should do the same in the lows, yes? I would like them to match.
    Current: '94 MX-6 V6/5 • '72 240Z • '10 Mazda5
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  3. #228
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    The ballasts upconvert the voltage. The HID set is way more power efficient than halogen lights, and have higher light output while drawing less power. you can install halogen bulbs back into those fogs but then you lose all HID functionality. dunno why you'd do that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    also the 6000k bulbs have just the slightest blue to them, I loved how that looked on my glacier car. should look ok on any lighter colored e34 like yours Matt.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by staystackin View Post
    I have the exact opposite! HID lows and OEM fogs. Planning on HIDs all 4?
    Same on the e34 and e36. I don't know why, but on the e34 I like the look of the HID's in the lows and the ol school halogen in the fogs, don't ask me why but I feel it really suits the look of the front end. .

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binjammin View Post
    The ballasts upconvert the voltage. The HID set is way more power efficient than halogen lights, and have higher light output while drawing less power. you can install halogen bulbs back into those fogs but then you lose all HID functionality. dunno why you'd do that.
    I wouldn't install the halogen bulbs back; I'd want to run the HIDs without the ballasts for the low power draw and hack the LKM so I wouldn't get the dash error message.

    also the 6000k bulbs have just the slightest blue to them, I loved how that looked on my glacier car. should look ok on any lighter colored e34 like yours Matt.
    No I like the blue, as long as it's not TOO blue so that I'd attract the attention of the fuzz.
    Current: '94 MX-6 V6/5 • '72 240Z • '10 Mazda5
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  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldUlysses View Post
    I wouldn't install the halogen bulbs back; I'd want to run the HIDs without the ballasts for the low power draw and hack the LKM so I wouldn't get the dash error message.
    This is not possible - HID bulbs are 'arc discharge', not hot filimant - if you don't supply a high enough frequency/voltage power signal to them, they simply won't light off. The ballasts are absolutely required for them to work - otherwise you have to just go back to regular bulbs...

    Fox

    Quote Originally Posted by BoldUlysses View Post
    No I like the blue, as long as it's not TOO blue so that I'd attract the attention of the fuzz.
    P.S. Wait till the first time you drive in the rain at night...
    Last edited by K Fox; 06-29-2013 at 06:27 PM. Reason: P.S.


  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Fox View Post
    This is not possible - HID bulbs are 'arc discharge', not hot filimant - if you don't supply a high enough frequency/voltage power signal to them, they simply won't light off. The ballasts are absolutely required for them to work - otherwise you have to just go back to regular bulbs...
    Thanks Fox. That's exactly the answer I was looking for.

    P.S. Wait till the first time you drive in the rain at night...
    Why? Is it going to be bad?

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think I may have cured the squeak. It seemed to disappear immediately after I filled the tank and progressively returned as the tank emptied, which to me implied a rear ride-height-dependent problem. This evening I pulled the right rear strut and discovered the top of the spring not properly seated on the pad, something which allowed the edge of the spring (#14) to contact the lip of the upper strut mount (#4) under certain circumstances. Seated the spring top and bottom after greasing them up for good measure and greased the strut-to-trailing-arm bolt before torquing it at the proper ride height. Took it for a (spirited) test drive and everything seems to be nominal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's a shot from last night:



    It's a bit blurry (no tripod...yet ) but the light was just about perfect.
    Current: '94 MX-6 V6/5 • '72 240Z • '10 Mazda5
    Past: '02 330i/5 • '85 RX-7 GSL-SE • '95 540i/6'95 525i/5'86 635CSi/5 • '88 JZA70 • '86 4K quattro • '85 RX-7 S
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  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldUlysses View Post
    Why? Is it going to be bad?




    It's a bit blurry (no tripod...yet ) but the light was just about perfect.
    I can't get over how good that car looks, especially in good light like that. On the wet night driving, I'm just referring to the fact that HID's aren't as good as regular halogen's at giving visibilty - since the HID's are bluer overall than halogens, they scatter light more and you don't get as much reflected back to see with. That's why I prefer regular bulbs in the fogs - they give you a lot more useful light in dark wet weather while still allowing you to have the superior output HID's in the low beams for all other conditions. HID's do put out more light, but halogens do better in regards to refraction vs reflection, which matters a lot in wet conditions. Dry weather - more light is better.

    Fox


  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Fox View Post
    I can't get over how good that car looks, especially in good light like that. On the wet night driving, I'm just referring to the fact that HID's aren't as good as regular halogen's at giving visibilty - since the HID's are bluer overall than halogens, they scatter light more and you don't get as much reflected back to see with. That's why I prefer regular bulbs in the fogs - they give you a lot more useful light in dark wet weather while still allowing you to have the superior output HID's in the low beams for all other conditions. HID's do put out more light, but halogens do better in regards to refraction vs reflection, which matters a lot in wet conditions. Dry weather - more light is better.

    Fox
    Fox, I don't really understand you here, more light is more light. Refraction and reflection are two things that have nothing to do with light output. The amount of light you're pushing down the road is greater with HIDs... whether it's reflected by rain or refracted by some kind of lensing makes no difference as to the source of the light. There's also no "jitter" like there can be with LED lights due to PWM of the light, HIDs get constant voltage so none of that really makes any sense.

    So far as the color of the light, I think you're confusing blue tinted bulbs like silverstars with the natural light output color of HIDs. Blue tinted bulbs (or any tinted bulb for that matter) will not have light output in the color range of the color of the filter, so filtered light has less output. A blue HID is not filtered, that's just the color of the output of the lamp. Think of it like burning copper that produces a green flame, versus putting a green filter on a light... the green flame is producing an unfiltered green color, a green filtered light source is filtering part of the spectrum. Significant difference.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binjammin View Post
    Fox, I don't really understand you here, more light is more light. Refraction and reflection are two things that have nothing to do with light output. The amount of light you're pushing down the road is greater with HIDs... whether it's reflected by rain or refracted by some kind of lensing makes no difference as to the source of the light. There's also no "jitter" like there can be with LED lights due to PWM of the light, HIDs get constant voltage so none of that really makes any sense.

    So far as the color of the light, I think you're confusing blue tinted bulbs like silverstars with the natural light output color of HIDs. Blue tinted bulbs (or any tinted bulb for that matter) will not have light output in the color range of the color of the filter, so filtered light has less output. A blue HID is not filtered, that's just the color of the output of the lamp. Think of it like burning copper that produces a green flame, versus putting a green filter on a light... the green flame is producing an unfiltered green color, a green filtered light source is filtering part of the spectrum. Significant difference.
    This all I know, but there is a difference in the way HID's put out light that becomes easily visible in wet weather. It has to do with color temperature and the fact that HID's are a much higher color temperature than halogens. The higher temps are bluer light (meaning more blue color content overall), and as I'm gathering you know from the way you're talking here, blue light scatters more easily than the rest of the spectrum. This becomes very visible in wet weather, as the water on the road causes a lot of the normally reflected light to refract instead, and makes it a lot harder to see. Since blue light is more easily refracted anyway, this compounds the effect, and with HID's it's actually harder to see when it's wet as compared to halogen's - I've personally experienced this. Even counting the increased output of HID's and going with 4500k bulbs (as close to halogen color temp as you can get) it's about a wash with the extra output countering the greater refraction of the HID light. Signs and good reflective paint is all readily visible (even blinding at times), but the road itself is a velvety black ribbon - it's a bit more even and easier to see with good halogen bulbs vs HID's.

    Again, this is why I prefer halogen in the fog's - it allows me to flip them on and get that 'better for foul weather' light, and still have the HID's in the low beams and have more actual light on the road for better conditions.

    Fox

    P.S. The reflection and refraction I'm talking about are part of how we see the light - light leaves the headlights of the car, and then it either reflects off the road/signs/ect and back to us, or refracts away randomly and does us no good. Concerning headlights, reflection is good - and HID's suffer from higher refraction than halogen's in general, but especially so in wet weather, again due to the color temp of the light. Hopefully this is a little more clear than earlier.
    Last edited by K Fox; 06-30-2013 at 02:34 AM. Reason: P.S.


  11. #236
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    So much effort to get working fogs. And I'm putting even more effort into deleting my fogs... And in case you weren't aware it's a problem for me as the factory fog delete plates do not fit an M bumper nor can I or anyone else find the switch delete plate part number.
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    Waiting for install is an adjustable lumbar support, & drivers side glove box...

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Fox View Post
    This all I know, but there is a difference in the way HID's put out light that becomes easily visible in wet weather. It has to do with color temperature and the fact that HID's are a much higher color temperature than halogens. The higher temps are bluer light (meaning more blue color content overall), and as I'm gathering you know from the way you're talking here, blue light scatters more easily than the rest of the spectrum. This becomes very visible in wet weather, as the water on the road causes a lot of the normally reflected light to refract instead, and makes it a lot harder to see. Since blue light is more easily refracted anyway, this compounds the effect, and with HID's it's actually harder to see when it's wet as compared to halogen's - I've personally experienced this. Even counting the increased output of HID's and going with 4500k bulbs (as close to halogen color temp as you can get) it's about a wash with the extra output countering the greater refraction of the HID light. Signs and good reflective paint is all readily visible (even blinding at times), but the road itself is a velvety black ribbon - it's a bit more even and easier to see with good halogen bulbs vs HID's.

    Again, this is why I prefer halogen in the fog's - it allows me to flip them on and get that 'better for foul weather' light, and still have the HID's in the low beams and have more actual light on the road for better conditions.

    Fox

    P.S. The reflection and refraction I'm talking about are part of how we see the light - light leaves the headlights of the car, and then it either reflects off the road/signs/ect and back to us, or refracts away randomly and does us no good. Concerning headlights, reflection is good - and HID's suffer from higher refraction than halogen's in general, but especially so in wet weather, again due to the color temp of the light. Hopefully this is a little more clear than earlier.

    lol, it doesn't work that way. Light is light. What you're thinking of is human sensitivity to light colors, such as blue. If you look at a spectrograph of natural light in the visible wavelength you'll see all the peaks of the different colors of the spectrum at different wavelengths. If you look at HID output, at let's say... iunno 6000k (for the sake of the discussion) you'll see the same peaks across the wavelength but a higher peak in the blue end of the spectrum. That's because HIDs output the full spectrum, but they put out a lot in the color you see them as. If you look at a spectrograph of a blue tinted bulb you'll see far less light output across the spectrum as all the other colors are being cut down by the filter, as human eyes are very sensitive to blue light. It's the trick companies like Silvania use to get you to buy their blue tinted bulbs. You get fooled into thinking you have greater light output due to it being so blue, when in reality it's JUST blue that you're getting.


    Reflection is when light bounces off something. Refraction is when light passes through something and the light path bends. Think of reflection like a laser bouncing off a mirror, and refraction like when you look down the length of a straw when it's in a glass and it looks like the straw bends when it hits the water. If you refract something enough it can act like a prism and separate light into its components, but in a halogen bulb that's tinted you'd notice that effect less, because there's less spectrum variance to refract from. The amount of refraction you'd get from being in the rain though is minimal, like... you'd never notice the spreading of the spectrum from the millions of raindrops and certainly not from road signs that are wet. Not really sure where you got your info from, the only thing I can wager is that the cutoffs from the lights are more prevalent in the rain with HIDs than they are with halogens while driving down the road, but even then it's just a trick of the mind as you're still seeing VASTLY greater light output with the refraction of the cutoffs in the lights themselves than with halogens.

  13. #238
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    Lookin good Matt.
    Switch your fog bulbs to 4500k and although providing more light output will match the color of your headlights.

    I think when I installed HIDs on my touring, I went with 5k bulbs. I did not want to be in the white or blue part of the spectrum.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binjammin View Post
    Not really sure where you got your info from...
    Personal experience. See, I do a lot of driving in the mountains around me at night, and especially in the spring it's wet a lot. I noticed after switching to my HID's that the only thing that was lit up better was the signs - which were now really bright. But everything else (like the road itself, everything on the sides of the road, ect) wasn't as visible. Even though the halogen bulbs were obviously not as bright, in the rain it was easier to see with them. I'll leave it at that.

    Fox


  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShapeShifter View Post
    Lookin good Matt.
    Switch your fog bulbs to 4500k and although providing more light output will match the color of your headlights.

    I think when I installed HIDs on my touring, I went with 5k bulbs. I did not want to be in the white or blue part of the spectrum.
    Thanks Pat. Will invest some more thought into colors when it comes time to do the lows.

    * * * * * *

    Hacked the LKM earlier per the instructions here:

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1699696

    No more F/FOG LIGHT warning. Everything is completely nominal on the dash.

    * * * * * *

    In other news, can anyone shed some light on this? As described above, I dropped the strut last Friday and re-seated the spring to hopefully eliminate a squeak from the right rear. Seems to have worked so far, but I have a question about reassembly:



    There was no #17 washer when I reinstalled the strut-to-trailing arm bolt. I torqued it to spec (~95 ft-lbs, I believe) but can't help thinking the up-and-down movement of the strut is working the bolt loose.

    Are my fears well-founded? Is there supposed to be a washer there? Or am I being paranoid?
    Current: '94 MX-6 V6/5 • '72 240Z • '10 Mazda5
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  16. #241
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    I noticed no PN as well when I ordered all that. Thought the washer might come with the bolt, but no dice.
    Last edited by thatonedood; 07-01-2013 at 09:25 PM.

  17. #242
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    Thanks Paul. So how long have you been running washer-less?

    Forgot to add that I did torque it with the trailing arm jacked up to normal ride height as well.
    Current: '94 MX-6 V6/5 • '72 240Z • '10 Mazda5
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  18. #243
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    lolol... you'd have seen posts of me whining about it if I had, but I have yet to install all the new suspension bits (and pads and rotors and .. I really need to update my thread ). I was actually thinking of asking you if you had tips as the job's fresh in your mind.

    Home closing in 11 days, then a week off work. I'm hoping to make full use of my first garage in that time. I'll be sure to look for the washer during disassembly. In fact, I could have a look under there tomorrow to see if I can find anything on the factory setup

  19. #244
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    Home closing in 11 days, then a week off work. I'm hoping to make full use of my first garage in that time. I'll be sure to look for the washer during disassembly. In fact, I could have a look under there tomorrow to see if I can find anything on the factory setup
    That'd be great. I'm going to check the driver's side for a washer tonight too.

    Quote Originally Posted by thatonedood View Post
    lolol... you'd have seen posts of me whining about it if I had, but I have yet to install all the new suspension bits (and pads and rotors and .. I really need to update my thread ). I was actually thinking of asking you if you had tips as the job's fresh in your mind.
    No tips, really. Read these and it's pretty straightforward:

    http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Mainte...ont_shocks.htm
    http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Mainte...ear_shocks.htm

    This was helpful from the rear shock sequence:

    Just replaced the rear shocks on my E34 and wanted to pass on a tip. The refurbished unit measured 23" from bottom shock bushing to the top mount surface, and the corresponding distance was 19" on the car. At first I couldn't work out how to lower the trailing arm to get the extra distance- it just wouldn't budge and there was no way the shock unit was going to fit. Then I realised why- the handbrake was on! I released the handbrake and this allowed the trailing arm to drop another few inches. I undid the link to the rear stabiliser bar and this gave a couple more inches to play with. Job done. Thanks to Phillips V.
    Current: '94 MX-6 V6/5 • '72 240Z • '10 Mazda5
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  20. #245
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    Thanks for the links Matt. That's a good tip I had come across before, and forgotten. Bookmarked


    Here's the best pic I could get with the car on the ground – driver side:

  21. #246
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    Well that does look like a rather large flat washer, doesn't it?

    Hmm.

    Thanks for snapping the pic.
    Current: '94 MX-6 V6/5 • '72 240Z • '10 Mazda5
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  22. #247
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    That's either part of the bolt head or seized on there. I've got one in the trash, I can snap a pic later tonight.


  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevertd View Post
    That's either part of the bolt head or seized on there. I've got one in the trash, I can snap a pic later tonight.
    So you're saying no washer?

    If no washer (and even if washer), what keeps the bolt from loosening? I could be mistaken, but I don't recall that the bottom of the strut is a bushing. Does the bolt bottom out in the trailing arm threads?
    Current: '94 MX-6 V6/5 • '72 240Z • '10 Mazda5
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  24. #249
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    I got what seized on the what now?



    Interesting, or may be over complicating things, but here's a side by side. realoem's 540 diagram, and then an m technic on the right – sans washer.


  25. #250
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    I believe what you're looking at is a lock washer, and the "giant washer" thing is part of the sleeve in the bushing. If not, then the msport has the washer as part of the bushing and the non-msport has a separate washer. Either way, you want a washer on there or the bushing will eventually pull out of the shock over the head of the bolt.

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