525i 5SPD---> 530i ZHP 6SPD Build Log

[Stück]

Chilling out at the lake with the wife and kids, can't help but have my mind back in the shop. I'd much rather be there getting everything ironed out dammit. Oh well. Beautiful weather and all the frozen margaritas I can drink is nice too.

[Jason5driver]

I really like this project...!
I am envious of the endless resources in order to make things happen...

The whole project and work looks to be high quality...!
Love it...!

Thanks!
Jason

[blackknight530i]

Stuck, I'm wondering on the driveshaft situation... could you use an e60 auto/manual driveshaft in it's entirety if you swapped diff's? Are the diff's even swappable? The reason I ask is because those of us that might like to perform this swap might like to purchase a single new driveshaft rather than piece together two old ones. We don't have the luxury of your parts bins, LOL. I'm thinking that if the only issue is the input splines on the diff that so long as the length is correct, why not just do it all?

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Actually, in looking at some diff rebuild guides and such, I'm wondering if you could just swap the input flange from the e60 diff onto the e39 diff and use the e60 driveshaft as it comes.

[Stück]

No other BMW diff case will fit a E39. Also the internals of the e39 diff, ring and pinion are offset abnormally vs what is typical for a 188mm gear set so you can't do that either.

It may be possible to just change the input shaft flange but I've always been told not to disturb the torqued crush collar that its also holding. I chose to just play it safe.

if you are starting with a 530 to begin with you'll only needs e60 530 manual driveshaft to use the front of with your existing rear.

[Schitzo]

No other BMW diff case will fit a E39.

'Fit' is the wrong term. Bolt on is a more appropriate term. I have fit an E34 M5 diff in my E39 528i. There is a member on M5board that fit an E60 M5 diff in his E39. The Pinion flange can be removed and re-installed as long as the nut is fastened back to it's original position.

[blackknight530i]

'Fit' is the wrong term. Bolt on is a more appropriate term. I have fit an E34 M5 diff in my E39 528i. There is a member on M5board that fit an E60 M5 diff in his E39. The Pinion flange can be removed and re-installed as long as the nut is fastened back to it's original position.

That is precisely what I was referring to. I saw the post about the guy with the e60 m5 diff mounted to his e39 m5. I also saw a post about rebuilding a diff which involved removing the pinion flange and making sure the nut was marked. I think this would be the easiest/best option if the length of the driveshaft is correct from the e60 to the e39. As long as the CSB aligns in the right spot. I'm thinking I might need a new driveshaft in the future and rather than forking out a ton of money on an e39 one when I might be doing the 6 speed swap anyways, I might just hold off and get an e60 driveshaft new. The problem might be finding an e60 pinion flange though. BMW doesn't have a part number for it, so it would probably need to come off a used e60 diff.

[blackknight530i]

Stuck, what is the issue with using a 540i/6 driveshaft with this trans? How much different is the length? Could it be made to work?

[Stück]

I don't know the length off the top of my head but the V8 rear CV is huge compared to the I6 one. Front flange is 105mm vs the "large" I6 one that is 96mm.

Swapped the first transmission out for another GS6-37BZ this morning. The car is "done" and is a runnin' MF'er. I flashed the DME with the EU2 tune, cleared adaptations and off she went. No CEL nada! I one tire fired down the shop line and out the shop door :-p

I will have to fabricate a proper transmission crossmember to provide space for transmission mounts. Its almost solidly mounted at the moment with what I got in there that "worked"

Can't tie up a lift any longer though so I'll do that at home. It works fine, just the transmission harmonics shared with the cabin aren't desirable.

[blackknight530i]

Did you have to do anything regarding balancing the driveshaft, or are you still planning on doing that?

[Stück]

Well.. the "correct" answer is yes, balance it.

In reality though? No its going to be fine. Unless you're really unlucky and got two driveshafts built at 5 till quitting time on a Friday you'll be fine.

You have to keep in mind at speed the driveshaft wants to spin true, it will resist moving outside of dead center due to physics. It would have to be significantly out of balance to make an issue. When the factory does balance them we are talking weights about the weight of a dime or nickel. Its not a significant issue IMO.

My E30 is also using a mixed driveshaft and has no vibration issues. I've made them this way for many other swap cars I've done without a problem.

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Well I just made the ~23mile drive home from the shop with the new powertrain. Even with the gear whirr from the nearly solid mounting of the transmission it is still significantly quieter in the cabin at speed.

I saw 2700 RPM at 80MPH and 2900 RPM at 85MPH, about a 550RPM drop in 6th.

I reset the MPG OBC and headed home. I saw an average of 27.6 MPG as I pulled into my driveway.

[blackknight530i]

This is so cool to hear!!! I really want to do this now that I know it will work. I have seen 6MT's for about $1100 or so on Car-part with about 75k miles or less and I just bought a used (25k mile) 530i driveshaft to replace mine that should have a very good rear half for if/when I do the swap. Then I'll just need to find an e60 driveshaft that probably doesn't matter what condition it's in so long as it isn't bent, right? I'll have to do the usual manual swap parts, but that's expected and I can code myself. I'm curious if you're getting the full potential of the ZHP motor or not. Any chance you'll be dynoing it? Also, I'm not much of a fabricator when it comes to aluminum, so I hope that whatever you come up with for the crossmember is fairly easy to work with or that you can possibly manufacture them for prospective swappers. It seems like that's the only real custom part of the whole swap, so that's awesome.

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Just was looking at the info on the ZHP cam retrofit kit (OEM #11120429575) and from what I gather, the only difference the software adds is the 300 rpm rev increase. I'm sure that the MS43 is probably handling the cam timing difference within its tolerances and that you might benefit from an increased redline if you desired. If you do a shark or ESS tune, you'd probably get the full benefit. Either way, you're probably doing better than the 225hp of the stock m54b30 by about 5 hp or so. I think you'll definitely be getting increased power simply from it being low mileage and the fact you came from a m54b25. Congrats again!

[Stück]

The front half of the E60 driveshaft is all metal, aluminum anyway. The CSB presses onto it, but the UJoint and CV are on the rear part. Unless its bent its gonna be good for this use.

I am generally of the opinion that the ZHP software is just a redline bump as well.

The engine idles rock steady and gives no indication of tuning discrepancies. While it RAN with the 2.5 tune, it was a little rough. I think thats to be expected given the larger MAF and injectors that it didn't know what to do with.

[DatTugrut]

This is awesome! Great work.

When can I drop off my car?

[Stück]

I assume you're joking, but if you really wanted to I think I have all the parts laying around to do another swap... PM me.

Tonight I started the crossmember fabrication. I elected to stick with an aluminum brace as that was the quickest option for me.

Here is the assembly that was just on the car, removed as a unit and placed on the bench. Note the uber thin hard solid rubber discs that are the "mounts"


I then made a quick jig from MDF to establish the static dimensions in a 3D space I could work with. The transmission ear bracket is fixed to the back, and the two sides of the E39 Auto crossmember are fixed where they would meet the body of the car.


I cut the center of the E39 Auto crossmember out. It sits too high and not spaced wide enough.


To wrap up my extent of fabrication I cut the center out of the E90 transmission crossmember which has the proper mount spacing. It was trimmed until it was pressure fit in between the two E39 Auto crossmember sections.


I do not have the means by which to weld aluminum so I'll drop it off at the welders tomorrow to make it become one. Handy dandy jig assures it will be welded precisely in its proper orientation.

[geargrinder]

I

I do not have the means by which to weld aluminum so I'll drop it off at the welders tomorrow to make it become one. Handy dandy jig assures it will be welded precisely in its proper orientation.

super kewl progress and nice seminar in how to mockup and jig for fabrication. I have a couple of buddies who need to take your simple quality patient approach vs the ol' "hack-sum-metal 'n start weldin' hey close enuff" approach...

[blackknight530i]

I assume you're joking, but if you really wanted to I think I have all the parts laying around to do another swap... PM me.

Tonight I started the crossmember fabrication. I elected to stick with an aluminum brace as that was the quickest option for me.

Here is the assembly that was just on the car, removed as a unit and placed on the bench. Note the uber thin hard solid rubber discs that are the "mounts"


I then made a quick jig from MDF to establish the static dimensions in a 3D space I could work with. The transmission ear bracket is fixed to the back, and the two sides of the E39 Auto crossmember are fixed where they would meet the body of the car.


I cut the center of the E39 Auto crossmember out. It sits too high and not spaced wide enough.


To wrap up my extent of fabrication I cut the center out of the E90 transmission crossmember which has the proper mount spacing. It was trimmed until it was pressure fit in between the two E39 Auto crossmember sections.


I do not have the means by which to weld aluminum so I'll drop it off at the welders tomorrow to make it become one. Handy dandy jig assures it will be welded precisely in its proper orientation.

Very impressive Stuck! I can't wait to see the finished product. The coolest thing about that mount is that it lets you use stock rubber mounts in the future. It looks like the only custom parts to do this are the crossmember and the hybrid driveshaft. Here's to all the naysayers that said a 6MT swap in an e39 I6 was either not possible or not worth it!

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Also really glad you followed through with this project. I've seen so many swap threads started where the OP decided to quit or just fell off the face of the Earth. This thread has kept me intrigued since the beginning and I thank you sir for it!

[Justin517]

Stuck is in a somewhat unique circumstance that makes it worth it... he works at a wrecking yard.

I still think it isn't really worth doing a 6-speed swap if you are the average Joe and have to go out and buy all the parts and do the swap in his garage.

A 5-speed and 6-speed 330i (2001 vs 2004 as example) are both rated for the same town and highway MPG of 18/27... unless you are just doing it for shiftier feel and very slight improvement in acceleration under certain circumstances... but that is quite a bit of $$ for just that.

All IMO though... I applaud stuck for such a cool little project.

[blackknight530i]

The thing that intrigues me is that if one were to do a manual swap from an automatic, one now has the option of a 6MT rather than only a 5MT. Basically, if you were going to do the swap anyways, this opens up more options and a slightly better one.

[bmwahba46]

Very cool, love this so far!

[ChiefChad]

Turbo or Sc it and this will be the most BA e39 ever.
I love the creativity and thought you have put in to this.
Very very cool.

Sent from my iPhone using BF.com

[Cyrix2k]

Yes having an enormous parts bin to play in definitely makes for some good times. I grabbed some 8 to 10 transmission crossmembers that looked like they could work and just made a pile to guess and test with lol.

I used RealOEM primarily to identify driveshaft candidates then checked my inventory to see what I actually had. It worked out really well.

The car is "done" but I have some complications. Needless to say the car is still on the lift at work where its staying till Monday

I imagine another combo of driveshafts would work out for the 6spd auto, but then you have to deal with a transmission computer and harness differences etc. A big can of worms I'd never want part of and I row my own gears anyway...



I got the car started, I ran out of time so I left the computer with the stock 2.5l tune. It started right up, lifter tick pretty loud. Generally expected given the engine sat for 2-3yrs on the shelf, it should work itself out in a while. Check engine light came on after idling for a little while, never checked what for. Most likely for the MAF or banks to rich/lean.

Unfortunately the transmission makes some really hellacious noises anytime the clutch is out and the input shaft is turning. It is similar to the typical input bearing noise we hear with aftermarket lightweight unspung flywheels except easily 3 times as loud. I thought maybe someone had drained the fluid on the transmission but we NEVER do that on MT's so I thought no... couldn't be dry. I popped the drain plug and I'll be damned if oil as black as diesel engine oil didn't come out. When I say black I mean black. Not dark amber, not brown, not brown black, but BLACK. I've NEVER seen anything like that on a BMW MT before. Also the black ass oil was as thin as water, and didn't feel slick but only a little bit between my fingers. It has a potent metallic smell to it, so much I could taste it.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying the transmission is no good.... FML.

Not the end of the world however as I have a second GS6-37BZ as a backup, it has a bit higher miles but damn it can't be any worse than the first one. Does mean however I'm stuck in my Rav4 loaner from the shop till Monday lol.

If you haven't trashed the other six speed yet, it might be worth a fluid swap. I was a dumbass and just drove a Getrag 240 about 15 miles without any fluid at all, but it seems fine with fluid in it now. It made the same sounds you described - terrible rattling in neutral and it sounded like it had straight cut gears while going down the road

Stuck is in a somewhat unique circumstance that makes it worth it... he works at a wrecking yard.

I still think it isn't really worth doing a 6-speed swap if you are the average Joe and have to go out and buy all the parts and do the swap in his garage.

A 5-speed and 6-speed 330i (2001 vs 2004 as example) are both rated for the same town and highway MPG of 18/27... unless you are just doing it for shiftier feel and very slight improvement in acceleration under certain circumstances... but that is quite a bit of $$ for just that.

All IMO though... I applaud stuck for such a cool little project.

The I6 probably benefits more than a V8 from a six speed, but I tend to agree. The best part about the six speed are the bragging rights; I skip 5th in my car effectively making it a 5 speed anyway.

[Stück]

Stuck is in a somewhat unique circumstance that makes it worth it... he works at a wrecking yard.

You're right there, my out of pocket on this entire project is very reasonable. For the engine, transmission, all other used parts, new Dr.Vanos unit, UUC clutch kit, UUC Evo3 SSK, completely resealing the engine/trans, and welding (probably forgetting something) I'm still under $2k.

If you haven't trashed the other six speed yet, it might be worth a fluid swap. I was a dumbass and just drove a Getrag 240 about 15 miles without any fluid at all, but it seems fine with fluid in it now. It made the same sounds you described - terrible rattling in neutral and it sounded like it had straight cut gears while going down the road

I'm thinking it may be perfectly fine and I dismissed it too quickly because of the color of the fluid that drained out. The replacement sounded similar but not as loud with the same transmission "mounts" but not as tight. With the new proper crossmember that uses stock mounts there is not one bit of gear noise.

Fabricated crossmember back from the welders, set side by side with the stock E39 Auto crossmember for comparison.



After getting it installed, and it fit perfectly! I took it out for a real test drive. I've been reluctant to beat on it until I got a proper crossmember in there. Boy this whole swap really woke up the car. Acceleration wise 3rd now feels like my old 2nd, 4th feels like my old 3rd and so on. First gets after it very nicely, and a flat foot shift to 2nd barks the tires off real nice and slides the moonroof shade half way open. As compared the same sort of 1-2 shift in stock form got me a 1/2" to 1" slide on the shade. This is going to be kind of annoying now lol.

Car runs and drives phenomenally, engine power delivery is incredibly smooth throughout the RPM range, and I still have my nice sensible quiet cruiser with a much welcome power increase.

[jdjg]

Stück, can you sell me a custom crossmember?
the only I need to do this swap its the custom crossmember....

regards,

[Roman Empire]

Congrats OP on being the first to have done that 6 speed swap (well, reported swap...) very cool!

BTW, you have a 525i or 530i? Not sure I am following

[Stück]

Stück, can you sell me a custom crossmember?
the only I need to do this swap its the custom crossmember....

regards,

I think such work is best done for and on your own car. The cost of the parts, my labor, welding, shipping etc would be pretty substantial, and who knows if your car might differ just a bit and it not work quite right.

Congrats OP on being the first to have done that 6 speed swap (well, reported swap...) very cool!

BTW, you have a 525i or 530i? Not sure I am following

My E39 was born a 525i 5MT, its now a 530i 6MT