525i 5SPD---> 530i ZHP 6SPD Build Log

[geargrinder]

Makes me wonder if it'll be able to almost keep up with a stock 540i/6

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Very interesting project. Can't see pics of wife.

ROFL. took me a minit. But ROFL.

[jdjg]

Of course, I'll take more pictures as things swap over and go back in.

I already have WinKFP installed on my laptop but I did not have any of the necessary daten files to be able to reflash ECU's. I found a torrent online and let it download for about two days. 11GB for the package I found! I got all the E39 files imported into WinKFP, and was able to find the appropriate 01 530i Manual DME file. 7545695 if my research is correct.

Looks like I'll be ready to reflash my existing DME for the new engine when the mechanical is done. Some people have done 2.5 -> 3.0 swaps without doing anything to the DME but with a larger MAF and injectors I don't see any way the engine is going to run well, let alone ideally.

Yes, 7545695 are the correct daten for you!!!

[mitche39]

I found a torrent online and let it download for about two days. 11GB for the package I found!

Any chances of a link to that torrent?

Cheers!

[Stück]

Yes, 7545695 are the correct daten for you!!!

Thanks for the confirmation!

Any chances of a link to that torrent?

Sure, when I get home I'll post the link.

[geargrinder]

Of course, I'll take more pictures as things swap over and go back in.

I already have WinKFP installed on my laptop but I did not have any of the necessary daten files to be able to reflash ECU's. I found a torrent online and let it download for about two days. 11GB for the package I found! I got all the E39 files imported into WinKFP, and was able to find the appropriate 01 530i Manual DME file. 7545695 if my research is correct.

Looks like I'll be ready to reflash my existing DME for the new engine when the mechanical is done. Some people have done 2.5 -> 3.0 swaps without doing anything to the DME but with a larger MAF and injectors I don't see any way the engine is going to run well, let alone ideally.

So you're talking about using the 525 DME, right Stuck? There's no possibility of using the ZHP DME software? Would be nice to be running the ZHP tune to get the most out of the cams. (is the DME hardware the same from 2.5/ZHP? if so you could flash the ZHP software onto yours...)

[Stück]

525/530 use MS43 hardware, 2004-6 M54's were all MS45. I do not believe the software packages would be compatible.

My primary concern is getting the car running correctly, and the cams being so mild I sincerely doubt they will give the stock 530i tune any problems.

I do plan on getting some variant of performance software after everything is done, so I will seek something to account for them in that tune.

Here is the daten file I downloaded, 10.2GB total:
http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/7838761/SP_Daten_V46.3

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I'm also considering some sort of headers on the car that remove the rediculously restrictive stock branch manifold into those tiny cats. A quick poke around shows I could (later) install the catless headers and reflash the DME with the EU2 tune of 7545679 and then remove the air pump as well....

[geargrinder]

And you cant toss the ZHP DME in there? Thatd be the ideal for sure. DME to match the engine hardware plus the tweaked ZHP tune.

[Stück]

MS45 harness is completely different than MS43.

E46 DME box is on opposite side of engine bay as a E39. The wiring rework would be a headache.

A E60 MS45 harness could very well be adapted to E39, but I suspect there are differences there too that would render it impractical.

Regardless I fully expect the engine to run just fine without a cam specific tune. The DME is a very powerful computer and it will adjust the pertainant running variables on its own to get the mixture right. Cars have been making more power with hotter cams for a long time without magical reflashes.

In all reality I'm willing to bet the "ZHP tune" is little if anything more than a raised fuel cut and top speed.

[geargrinder]

MS45 harness is completely different than MS43.

E46 DME box is on opposite side of engine bay as a E39. The wiring rework would be a headache.

A E60 MS45 harness could very well be adapted to E39, but I suspect there are differences there too that would render it impractical.

Regardless I fully expect the engine to run just fine without a cam specific tune. The DME is a very powerful computer and it will adjust the pertainant running variables on its own to get the mixture right. Cars have been making more power with hotter cams for a long time without magical reflashes.

In all reality I'm willing to bet the "ZHP tune" is little if anything more than a raised fuel cut and top speed.

Gotcha. The harness thing is the info I was missing. Yep understand the compromises. Im gonna disagree on the complexity of the ZHP tune with you but, i totally agree w your practical compromise...

Old school "cars making power on hotter cams" sure OK like analog carbureted engines are somewhat self adjusting, like yeah if more air flows the carbs would suck more fuel. Modern ECUs are somewhat "self adjusting" to some degree but theres problems with that:
1. Within ranges only - software usually has trim limits because the factory tuner knows of something is > or < x% then something is wrong. Depending on the ecu and software those limits can be low or very flexible. And usually the range is pretty small. And on that era of ECU the trim is going to be fuel only - likely little or no timing "self-trim" except knock control. Leading to...
2. Disagree about whats in the ZHP tune. It'll have both more fuel and more timing to accomodate the cams, and while the fuel is partially "self adjusting" in both directions the timing wont be except if it gets knock at the specified settings... So timing can be backed off of the open loop map but not more aggressive. (I bet anything the ZHP tune has more timing...) So the ZHP tune is probably more important than you think...
3. Closed loop trim (at least on normal human street cars like this that dont have wideband O2 sensors) only happens for idle and cruise. WOT maps remain hard coded so no, if the cams flow more, the injectors wont inject significantly more fuel at WOT (aka the place you care the most about it). So the DME adaptation trim stuff is only so useful and no the DME will only partially adjust and at non-WOT unfort.

But hey, thats theoretical optimization, and like i said, i concur w practicalities if the harness is that different even if its a step down from how the ZHP should run. I also agree w your plan to go for an aftermarket tune down the line - that should resolve any sub-optimization you have and get the most out of it.

Also - brothah if you are thinking going headers, yeah! DO IT NOW! Its a big gain on M54 and a hassle to do in place, youre ideal position to put them in while the motor is loose..! FWIW I have Agencies on my M3 w Euro cats and no lights no nothin (still 4 O2's, just move the posts down to after cats under the car where BMW designed them to be before bastardizing for USA...) I had a set of eBays for a bit but they were tweaked and didnt fit but honestly if you find M54 eBays that are known fitment some of them arent too bad...

anyway, yeah obv i love the project. Continue to sub.

[1BADBM]

What brand of headers are you considering?

[Stück]

eBay specials, Supersprint knockoffs. The ones TOPSPEED sells on eBay fit perfectly on a M54 in a E39.

[1BADBM]

Thanks I'll check them out, I know people who have had success with raceland headers also.

[e39hamann]

Awesome project! I know I don't have the same engine as you but I have raceland headers on my car and I'm very happy with them.

[1BADBM]

^ I was waiting for you to chime in!

[523BMWE39]

Nice project , good work and research aswell,will the zhp 6sp shifter linkage fit in the e39 or will u machine it?

[Stück]

I'm using the shifter carrier from a E90 330i, a UUC Evo3 SSK lever, and a shortened linkage rod from whatever I could find since I did not have the E90 one.

I'm fairly certain it will position it about where it needs to be. I'll know by the end of the day if its going to work or not. Engine is about redressed and ready to drop back in shortly.

E39hamann are those long tube or shorties?

[e39hamann]

I'm using the shifter carrier from a E90 330i, a UUC Evo3 SSK lever, and a shortened linkage rod from whatever I could find since I did not have the E90 one.

I'm fairly certain it will position it about where it needs to be. I'll know by the end of the day if its going to work or not. Engine is about redressed and ready to drop back in shortly.

E39hamann are those long tube or shorties?

Long tube as far as I know, I just looked on their website and it looks like they only made them for M52/tu engines. I still have my cats since they were not a part of the original headers, the cats come after the headers.

Link to the website: http://www.racelandus.com/exhaust-he...st-header.html

[Stück]

Those would be short/mid length to me.

Engine is dropped in, trans bolted up, driveshaft and shifter installed.





I ran into a number of issues once it came to the shifter, driveshaft and trans crossmember.

The E90 330i shifter carrier is WAY too short. I ended up using a 2004 530i 6MT carrier and linkage, its perfectly centered on the shifter hole.

The previous combo of driveshaft I had in mind did NOT work for a number of reasons, one being the spines at the center joint being 1 RCH smaller and not fitting, the other it being too short!

I ended up using a 2002 E39 530i driveshaft rear half. Auto/Manual doesn't matter the rears are the same length.
I mated to that a 2004 E60 530i 6MT driveshaft front half.

Final length is absolutely perfect.

For the transmission crossmember I tried everything I had on the shelf, about 10 different aluminum crossmembers but none would really work.
For the time being I'm using a 2002 E39 530i Automatic crossmember. It allows about 3/8" between the transmission ears and the crossmember. I put some thick rubber discs between the two with a straight through bolt. This is TEMPORARY to get the car out of the shop today as I want it for the four day weekend starting tomorrow and the shop will be closed. Gotta get it wrapped up today!

On the GS6-37BZ the rear mount ear bracket bolts to the box. I plan to remove that and fabricate something from steel when I have time to utilize the stock mounts, and retain the E39 530i Auto crossmember as its situated perfect front to rear.

[blackknight530i]

This is truly amazing man!!! I've been waiting for someone to actually follow through on a 6MT swap in the 530i for so long. I'm glad you had the parts bins to be able to play around with as I don't think anyone else would have figured out the driveshaft solution otherwise. I can't wait to see how the ZHP engine works out. Even without the engine, this will help people do a 6MT swap on just the standard M54b30 anyways.

Thanks again for doing this!

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I'm also curious if this would work with the 6 speed auto from the newer 530i's. With those, since they were mated to the M54, I wonder if they would work using the same concept of using the separate halves of the driveshaft.

[Stück]

Yes having an enormous parts bin to play in definitely makes for some good times. I grabbed some 8 to 10 transmission crossmembers that looked like they could work and just made a pile to guess and test with lol.

I used RealOEM primarily to identify driveshaft candidates then checked my inventory to see what I actually had. It worked out really well.

The car is "done" but I have some complications. Needless to say the car is still on the lift at work where its staying till Monday

I imagine another combo of driveshafts would work out for the 6spd auto, but then you have to deal with a transmission computer and harness differences etc. A big can of worms I'd never want part of and I row my own gears anyway...



I got the car started, I ran out of time so I left the computer with the stock 2.5l tune. It started right up, lifter tick pretty loud. Generally expected given the engine sat for 2-3yrs on the shelf, it should work itself out in a while. Check engine light came on after idling for a little while, never checked what for. Most likely for the MAF or banks to rich/lean.

Unfortunately the transmission makes some really hellacious noises anytime the clutch is out and the input shaft is turning. It is similar to the typical input bearing noise we hear with aftermarket lightweight unspung flywheels except easily 3 times as loud. I thought maybe someone had drained the fluid on the transmission but we NEVER do that on MT's so I thought no... couldn't be dry. I popped the drain plug and I'll be damned if oil as black as diesel engine oil didn't come out. When I say black I mean black. Not dark amber, not brown, not brown black, but BLACK. I've NEVER seen anything like that on a BMW MT before. Also the black ass oil was as thin as water, and didn't feel slick but only a little bit between my fingers. It has a potent metallic smell to it, so much I could taste it.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying the transmission is no good.... FML.

Not the end of the world however as I have a second GS6-37BZ as a backup, it has a bit higher miles but damn it can't be any worse than the first one. Does mean however I'm stuck in my Rav4 loaner from the shop till Monday lol.

[newton22]

Having a parts bin makes your issues sound trivial.

I can't find those headers for the M54 you mentioned. Link?

I'm bored with my car and want to mess around with it, but not ready to drop $4-5k on a supercharger yet.

[Stück]

This is who he bought his from, albeit on eBay from them
http://www.topspeedauto.com/index.ph...product_id=718

They are sold out at the moment last I called them last week.

They look about the same as any other eBay Supersprint knockoff.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=22

[1BADBM]

Thanks for the link I couldnt find them either

[DatTugrut]

so awesome to see a car like this coming out of houston. great work, keep it up!

[blackknight530i]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the black oil in a trans. My ex-girlfriend had a 2000 something Sebring that she said she wasn't able to drive more than 55mph in and when she was close to that speed it would sound horrible and ran really rough. Finally, she got rid of it and the guy that bought it said the previous owner had used motor oil instead of trans. oil in it. Crazy, right?

I asked about putting the 6 speed auto in because I figured there would be some way that the ms45 could be adapted to the m54 since the same m54b30 (non-zhp) was used in the 04-05 models. I realize that there might be some sensors involved in swapping over, but I'm wondering if an ms45 could be used on our e39's as well as the TCU for the 6AT. Honestly, I would probably rather have the 6MT like yours anyways, but they can be a bit pricey or hard to find and since I have an auto now, it would be a lot more involved in swapping to a manual as well. At least your experience makes it seem doable.

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Also, looking at realoem.com, it looks like the GS6-37BZ might also be modified to work with the SMG pump. That would be pretty cool too.

On second thought, that seems like a really bad idea. Horrible reliability.