First Track Event Tomorrow..Nervous! Words of Wisdom?

[MasterKwan]

I hate the HT-10's. With my Subaru going through a set of pads every 3 days I got to try LOTS of pads last year. If you're going to spend the money on a set of track pads, I'd get the DTC-30's instead. HT-10's are old tech. The HT-10's disintegrate when over heated. The DTC's just wear faster. Pads are really personal I know but, I have several pads that I've tried that are equally good for my purposes. I don't care what class you run but, having your brakes fad just kills the fun. There's only a $10 difference in price between the DTC-60's and the HT-10s. The '60's are hugely better though. For a newb though, I think the '30's would be a better choice.

[Evergreen Dan]

As a beginner I think stock pads (Jurid) will be fine for a while. You may have trouble modulating track pads with street tires, although I assume you car has ABS.

Others differ, but I figure why start going through the considerable hassle of changing pads (and bedding them) until brake performance dictates that you have to. You'll have some warning if your pads overheat and start to fade.

[biglovin]

As a beginner I think stock pads (Jurid) will be fine for a while. You may have trouble modulating track pads with street tires, although I assume you car has ABS.

Others differ, but I figure why start going through the considerable hassle of changing pads (and bedding them) until brake performance dictates that you have to. You'll have some warning if your pads overheat and start to fade.

I'm running ultimates right now. I've experienced fading on spirited runs lasting no more than a mile so i know if i go in with what i have now i wont be stopping much past a lap or so.

Bleeding wont be to bad, my dad and i work on the car and hes pretty seasoned in that sort of thing.
I have abs sometimes, depends what the M feels like doing. As far as modulating i have good foot cordination so i'll bank on that, ha jk

but right now i'm going to look into those hawk 30's

[ScottL]

I hate the HT-10's. With my Subaru blah blah

Maybe the Subie is a pig? I run the HT-10's with no problems on my E30. They wear well, stop well, and seem to last. And they certainly don't "disintegrate".

But my car is pretty light. And other factors like driving style, tires, and ABS have to be considered.

On topic, I'd recommend that any DE driver in a stock (i.e., heavier) car step up to a more aggressive pad. Especially if there's any doubt about the stock pads holding up to the stress of track driving.

[MasterKwan]

I may have steered you in the wrong direction, I'm not finding DTC-30's in M3 fitment. Dooh, yeah no '30's in M3 fitment...sorry.

Haha pig. It was heavy and fast. 3200 lbs empty 260 Whp and gobs of torque. So, yes it was hard on pads.

[joenationwide]

I hate the HT-10's. With my Subaru going through a set of pads every 3 days I got to try LOTS of pads last year. If you're going to spend the money on a set of track pads, I'd get the DTC-30's instead. HT-10's are old tech. The HT-10's disintegrate when over heated. The DTC's just wear faster. Pads are really personal I know but, I have several pads that I've tried that are equally good for my purposes. I don't care what class you run but, having your brakes fad just kills the fun. There's only a $10 difference in price between the DTC-60's and the HT-10s. The '60's are hugely better though. For a newb though, I think the '30's would be a better choice.

+1.

I've run DTC-60s and HT-10s on both a 92 Civic/GSR swap and my 95M3. I agree, the HT-10s were pretty weak on my Civic, and they were absolute shiite on my M3. The HT-10s even cut massive grooves into my rotors, where I never had any problems with the DTC-60s. Not to mention the bite of the HT-10 is weak compared to the torque of the DTC-60s. And this is on street tires.

I'll never buy the HT-10s again.

[fire n ice]

Bump,

read this thread couple months ago, very excellent.

doing my first event very soon, trackdaze in summit point

I plan on getting the hawk HT-10 front pads, i might be off on the model number. and high temperature brake fluid.

my question is at my beginner level, should i concern my self with getting tires for the track. will my current, relatively fresh, street tires yoko zr 90y hold up?

thanks
G

I agree with Gray Ghost, however would add that it depends somewhat on how quickly you learn. If you receive good instruction and are a fast learner, you may find that you are wearing out your street tires rather quickly. They'll definitely last your first few track days, but keep in mind the more you wear them out, the more useless they will become on the actual street for daily driving, especially in the rain!

Go out, enjoy yourself and then if you think you will be doing track days regularly, start researching some dedicated track tires (maybe mounted on dedicated track rims to make swapping easy).

However, do make sure that once you start researching track tires, if you choose a grippier tire, you'll need to consider everything that goes along with adding more grip to the car... i.e. there's no free lunch!

That being said, as a true beginner, you are best off starting with a low-grip street tire, simply for the reason that when you run out of grip or make a mistake in a corner, your speed is lower.

[biglovin]

I agree with Gray Ghost, however would add that it depends somewhat on how quickly you learn. If you receive good instruction and are a fast learner, you may find that you are wearing out your street tires rather quickly. They'll definitely last your first few track days, but keep in mind the more you wear them out, the more useless they will become on the actual street for daily driving, especially in the rain!

Go out, enjoy yourself and then if you think you will be doing track days regularly, start researching some dedicated track tires (maybe mounted on dedicated track rims to make swapping easy).

However, do make sure that once you start researching track tires, if you choose a grippier tire, you'll need to consider everything that goes along with adding more grip to the car... i.e. there's no free lunch!

That being said, as a true beginner, you are best off starting with a low-grip street tire, simply for the reason that when you run out of grip or make a mistake in a corner, your speed is lower.

Right now i only have plans for this one, two day, event. The price tag is rather large for my budget. I only have just enough for maintinence usually. I had to give up getting the uuc corsa exahust so i had the money for pads and track day fee. i feel it'll be completely worth it. Im excited to learn how too drive my car. first week i owned the M i took it into a cornfield due to operator error so since then i've been extra catious and its been like 7 months of paranoid spirited driving.

Seperate wheels and tires for the track will eventually come though... hopefully...

[Evergreen Dan]

I'm running ultimates right now. I've experienced fading on spirited runs lasting no more than a mile so i know if i go in with what i have now i wont be stopping much past a lap or so.

Bleeding wont be to bad, my dad and i work on the car and hes pretty seasoned in that sort of thing.
I have abs sometimes, depends what the M feels like doing. As far as modulating i have good foot cordination so i'll bank on that, ha jk

but right now i'm going to look into those hawk 30's

Your current pads don't last 60 seconds (assuming your spirited driving is over 60 MPH)? If that's really true, something is wrong.

I said bedding, BTW, not bleeding. When you install different pads, they a) may need to be bedded in to allow the volatile compounds to boil off and transfer some pad material to the rotor and b) wear so that they conform to your existing rotors. You will typically have a soft pedal and long travel until b) happens.

If you don't have ABS absolutely all the time, I'd fix it. A malfunctioning ABS system can easily lead to an incident. No ABS would be preferable to malfunctioning ABS.

[MasterKwan]

I saw a wreck up at Beaverrun caused by what looks like ABS failure. It was a BMW too. It wasn't a bad wreck but, it could have been. Guy got killed at Summit year before last because a brake line failed. Late last year, a subaru was totalled because a brake line failed. Your car's got to be in top notch shape or you shouldn't take it. If your brake lines are more than 3 years old, replace them.

The tech inspection is a joke. YOU have to make sure your car is ready.

[biglovin]

well when i say the faded they did have the initial bite like they do under normal driving conditions. Idk inexperiance = false diagnosis. I think the ABS might stop turnign on and off if i clean the speed sensors.

My bad on the miss read, i'll just look up how to properly bed, i've heard ppl and what they have tried and done, but i'll look it up for the proper procedure.

[Jim Bassett]

The tech inspection is a joke. YOU have to make sure your car is ready.

On that note, scheduling a tech inspection with your favorite local BMW mechanic, where they can get the car on a lift and look it over with an experienced eye, is really the way to go. Shouldn't take more than an hour, most likely less. Sure, it'll cost a few bucks, but the alternative is much worse.

[MasterKwan]

That's not sufficient in my opinion but, I'm pretty anal about my track maintenance. I've seen too many wrecks caused by mechanical failures. Beautiful M coupe totalled because a brother BMW dumped coolant on the track in front of him.

I steer clear of Mustangs for that very reason. They're ALWAYS dumping something on the track. BMW's are a close second. Then it's all the old POS's people bring to the track.

[Jim Bassett]

That's not sufficient in my opinion but, I'm pretty anal about my track maintenance.

You (and I) were not the target audience for my comment.

[nickdrivesm3]

You (and I) were not the target audience for my comment.

Is there something you guys do differently?

[Evergreen Dan]

Is there something you guys do differently?

Many racers and highly experienced drivers know their car's mechanical condition intimately (including what's likely to be a problem) and are qualified to maintain it. These folks may be better able to inspect a car than a professional mechanic, even a highly qualified one.

But for most people, having a thorough professional inspection by a mechanic (preferably a specialist BMW mechanic with track expertise) is essential to ensuring that your car is both safe and reliable.

What you don't want to do is shake the wheels, look at the brake pads, check the fluids and assume everything is OK. Or worse, think "well it was just at the dealer for routine maintenance; I'm sure it's fine."

[nickdrivesm3]

Many racers and highly experienced drivers know their car's mechanical condition intimately (including what's likely to be a problem) and are qualified to maintain it. These folks may be better able to inspect a car than a professional mechanic, even a highly qualified one.

But for most people, having a thorough professional inspection by a mechanic (preferably a specialist BMW mechanic with track expertise) is essential to ensuring that your car is both safe and reliable.

What you don't want to do is shake the wheels, look at the brake pads, check the fluids and assume everything is OK. Or worse, think "well it was just at the dealer for routine maintenance; I'm sure it's fine."

haha, I know what you mean. Doing what I do for work and what I do for a
hobby I tend to find out strong and weak points on all different BMW models. When I do my or a customers Pre-DE Inspection I take everything into consideration. Miles, driving habits, maintenance history, what the car has been through and what it is about to go through on the track. I make recommendations according to the current condition of the car. So far my clients that I go to the track with have not had a failure after I have inspected their car, needless to say things can happen. *knock on wood*

[MasterKwan]

Hmm, if you do the inspection and there's a mechanical failure you miss, you might find yourself looking at a law suit. Just say'in. By putting a professional stamp on an inspection, you're also taking on some level of responsibility. Personally, I'd think twice about doing track inspections unless I knew the people.

[Evergreen Dan]

Personally, I'd think twice about doing track inspections unless I knew the people.

I'm not sure that's much worse than any other repair or inspection, although the chance of component failure and of injury/damage is higher at the track. If independent mechanics weren't willing to do inspections, my guess is that HPDE's would not be held. Some events require a professional (not owner) inspection.

And the flip side is that doing track inspections is a great way for an independent mechanic to get new business. Some of those customers are not going to want to work on their cars, and if they get into the sport this can be a sizable proportion of business. My mechanic always has a little flock of track and race cars quietly grazing outside his bays.

[Edit: I pretty much said the same as Jim, although he said it better - so what Jim said. ]

[Jim Bassett]

Is there something you guys do differently?

Actually, no (speaking for myself).

Although, there are "event" techs that I do myself, but as mentioned in the responses, it's because I have experience with the car.

But, it still goes to a pro at least once, if not twice, a year. I understand, and fully support, what's being said about "personal responsibility", but my initial comment was made for the topic of this thread and those that would be reading it - first timers. None of whom (with maybe a very rare exception) would have the knowledge, experience, know-how, tools, etc to do their own inspection. Someone who makes their living working on BMWs (or cars in general) has much more knowledge and experience than any of us (in most cases). So part of that "personal responsibility" is recognizing that you may not have the knowledge necessary to the job properly.

And, I have to say, I'm fortunate in that the two mechanics I patronize are also friends, and so they tolerate me asking questions, looking over their shoulder (sometimes literally ), etc. I almost always learn something, even after 10+ years of working on my own cars.

[Edit: I pretty much said the same as Dan, although he used fewer words - so, what Dan said ]

[Lateral G]

What Jim and Dan said. But, adding ...

Don't wait until the last minute to tech your car for your first event (esp. if it's an older car). There may be hidden problems ... worn bushings or ball joints, metal fatigue in various places (subframe, subframe mounting points, rear trailing arm bushing pockets), cooling system, etc.

Get those issues sorted out well ahead of time so your car isn't still on the rack when your event date rolls around. Also, mechanics who regularly work on track day cars or race cars will be more familiar with the structural issues that might not show up on grocery getters.

[nickdrivesm3]

Hmm, if you do the inspection and there's a mechanical failure you miss, you might find yourself looking at a law suit. Just say'in. By putting a professional stamp on an inspection, you're also taking on some level of responsibility. Personally, I'd think twice about doing track inspections unless I knew the people.

Agree'd, there is a grey area if something goes terribly wrong.

I'm not sure that's much worse than any other repair or inspection, although the chance of component failure and of injury/damage is higher at the track. If independent mechanics weren't willing to do inspections, my guess is that HPDE's would not be held. Some events require a professional (not owner) inspection.

And the flip side is that doing track inspections is a great way for an independent mechanic to get new business. Some of those customers are not going to want to work on their cars, and if they get into the sport this can be a sizable proportion of business. My mechanic always has a little flock of track and race cars quietly grazing outside his bays.

[Edit: I pretty much said the same as Jim, although he said it better - so what Jim said. ]

Actually, no (speaking for myself).

Although, there are "event" techs that I do myself, but as mentioned in the responses, it's because I have experience with the car.

But, it still goes to a pro at least once, if not twice, a year. I understand, and fully support, what's being said about "personal responsibility", but my initial comment was made for the topic of this thread and those that would be reading it - first timers. None of whom (with maybe a very rare exception) would have the knowledge, experience, know-how, tools, etc to do their own inspection. Someone who makes their living working on BMWs (or cars in general) has much more knowledge and experience than any of us (in most cases). So part of that "personal responsibility" is recognizing that you may not have the knowledge necessary to the job properly.

And, I have to say, I'm fortunate in that the two mechanics I patronize are also friends, and so they tolerate me asking questions, looking over their shoulder (sometimes literally ), etc. I almost always learn something, even after 10+ years of working on my own cars.

[Edit: I pretty much said the same as Dan, although he used fewer words - so, what Dan said ]

You guys are silly

[Jim Bassett]

You guys are silly

I just noticed Dan's edit.

[nickdrivesm3]

Jim I think I've seen your car at a few SDBMWCCA events at Buttonwillow no? Maybe 2008 and or 2009?

[///Madman]

Just to chime in (because I really don't have anything better to do), while what happens to you and your car is your personal responsibility and you will suffer the consequences of something going bad, you may also involve someone else if things do go bad.
I witnessed a car have catastrophic brake failure with a passenger on board at turn 5 of Laguna Seca. Fortunately the gravel trap slowed him down significantly before he eventually hit the wall. Driver and passenger were fine, the car not so fine. When I talked with the driver as part of my Steward duties it turned out they had just bought the car used the night before the event and went with the previous owners assurance that everything was fine.