First Track Event Tomorrow..Nervous! Words of Wisdom?

[MarcZHP]

I'm curious, approximately how fast on average would a beginner go? I realize every track is different, but ball park estimate?

[1996 328ti]

I'm curious, approximately how fast on average would a beginner go? I realize every track is different, but ball park estimate?

You should not be concerned about how fast you can go.

[M3 Pete]

I'm curious, approximately how fast on average would a beginner go? I realize every track is different, but ball park estimate?

if you hit Mach 2, they kick you out.

Your question cannot be answered without knowing the track, the driver, and the car. In my first DE I hit about 135, but this is on the NASCAR style banking at Fontana. Most tracks don't have that kind of super high-speed straight, and they had to put a kink in it to slow us down, or else I might have hit close to 150 by the time we turned into the infield for the road course. They did the right thing, none of us needed to hit 150.

But this is all meaningless on YOUR track, I have no idea how long the straights are, how fast YOUR car is, and YOUR skill level. And it's even more meaningless in the overall scope of the DE, as the straights are not the hard part, the corners are. Doing 135 was interesting, but the technical 45 mph decreasing radius turn was the real fun. Focus on cornering, not straight line speed, and you'll be faster overall.

[MarcZHP]

You should not be concerned about how fast you can go.

Actually, I'm concerned as to how fast I don't want to go!

[1996 328ti]

Actually, I'm concerned as to how fast I don't want to go!

Well that's good. What track are you going to? Summit?

Read through the previous messages. There is some really good advice here. Anyone can drive fast going straight.
My first schools were overwhelming. There is a lot to absorb your first day.
Get comfortable with your shifting, smooth braking and transition back to the throttle. Vision. Look up. The last place I look is my speedo unless I am working on improving my entry and exit speed. Down the straight I'm glancing at my one water temp qauge and maybe the tach.

[M3 Pete]

Actually, I'm concerned as to how fast I don't want to go!

any decent DE will allow, no, they will encourage you to drive at your own pace. You are not required to drive any particular speed, it's up to you. If you have an aversion to high speeds, find a course without long straights.

Now if you want to drive around the whole course in second gear, maybe you should try auto-x instead. DEs are high performance driving schools, so you should have a high performance driving style, or at least want to develop one. The BMW CCA in the Bay Area has Car Control clinics that are suited to everyday drivers, and you won't get out of second gear, but it will improve your driving. It's actually a prerequisite to taking any of their DEs, and I think other chapters should make it a pre-req too. Other chapters may offer such courses, you'd have to check.

So I guess it depends on what you want to accomplish with the class. If the thought of hitting 80-100 mph on a controlled roadway where the obstructions are few and instructors are helping you still scares you, then maybe DEs are not for you. Your car is certainly capable of the task, but it doesn't mean you have to do it.

[sandsrfr]

Bottom line, drive as fast or as slow as you feel comfortable with. You'll be so zoned in on all of 'the things' you have to pay attention to when driving, that you'll never have time to look down at the speedometer.

You'll start out slow and cautious (unless your a wreckless, daredevil type) and every time you go out your speeds will increase (tho you will likely not notice it). Speed will come with experience and the 'smoothness' that you run your lines (apexes, turn-ins, braking, etc... etc... etc....).

Passenger instructors are the key here. If they think you are driving beyond your (or the cars limit for that matter) they'll let you know!

Actually, I'm concerned as to how fast I don't want to go!

[CorgiCoupe]

Actually, I'm concerned as to how fast I don't want to go!

You've gotten a number of very good answers. If your instructor pushes you to go faster than you feel comfortable with, you should request a different instructor. I would add that you will not even want to take the time to look at the speedometer, even peripherally, because your focus will be outside the car. I just finished my 3rd DE at Road Atlanta, and there's still only one place I feel free to glance at the speedometer. The tach is more important, but even that can be "read" by the sound of the engine. Just like on the street, you will sense how fast to take a turn, and as you learn the turn you may feel comfortable going in a little quicker. And, you don't really need to test the top end on the straights; it's not a race, and you will want to focus on the skills required to get around the track on the line and to do it smoothly.

[cterrysgd]

If the brakes fail, pump them.

I love this quote! I think everyone here has experienced this with stock brake fluid, pads and rotors!

Have fun and go your own pace!

['96 E36 M3]

My advice for the first-timer is to study the course layout carefully and take the first few laps conservatively. Studying the layout will give you the knowledge of the course so you can prepare for corner entry and corner exit based on where you are on the track. It also gives you a good idea of the type of speed you can carry into certain parts of the track, based on the corners that are coming up. Taking the first few laps conservatively will allow you to transition from "book smarts" to "street smarts" (yes, I watched the Apprentice last night) and, importantly, allow your tires to warm up and get grippy.

I neglected both of the above when I participated in my first DE day at Phoenix International Raceway earlier this year and ended up spinning out on the track. Luckily I spun in a wide-open area and damaged only my tires and my ego. Not having reviewed the course layout in detail I didn't know what to expect from one turn to the next, and on Turn 5 in the infield I carried too much speed into the corner and ended up plowing. I tried to correct the mistake with throttle and that ended spinning the tail out.

Once I got a feel for the course and the amount of speed I could carry from various straights to corners I regained confidence and really enjoyed my day. Hopefully this will help you too.

[Driverk]

I also recommend studying the course layout. Luckily, a friend of mine had run the same course that I was going to run for my first DE, and had taped it. Watching the dvd helped out a lot, even though we ran the course in reverse. There is no replacement for experience, but watching videos of tracks is a great training aid.

[CorgiCoupe]

I got a DVD before running Road Atlanta last year and found it very helpful, even though I had been watching races there for about 5 years. I'm going to Barber Motorsports Park in 2 weeks (1st time), and got a very good DVD from Chris Ingle at Tracktapes.com. It's more than an hour of him driving with students as passenger. He also has videos of tracks from VIR to Sebring to Mid Ohio.

[Driverk]

I got a DVD before running Road Atlanta last year and found it very helpful, even though I had been watching races there for about 5 years. I'm going to Barber Motorsports Park in 2 weeks (1st time), and got a very good DVD from Chris Ingle at Tracktapes.com. It's more than an hour of him driving with students as passenger. He also has videos of tracks from VIR to Sebring to Mid Ohio.

I'll be there as well. I have a vid from a guy from Huntsville driving it in his Dinan M3. It's a huge plus especially if you've never driven that track before.

[325isracer]

what is the point of this driver education thing? do you go so you can learn the ropes w/ an instructor then you can just race around with other guys? im new to this stuff..

[cterrysgd]

what is the point of this driver education thing? do you go so you can learn the ropes w/ an instructor then you can just race around with other guys? im new to this stuff..

First time... your instructor will take you out and teach you the line. Then you'll drive with him in the passenger seat for a bunch of weekends until you get it right and start to pick your speed up.

When they feel you're safe, smooth, aware and faster they will start letting you go out by yourself. They you have to be your own instructor and teach yourself how to go smoother which then brings speed.

Usually passing is only allowed in certain areas and only with a hand signal from the driver in front of you.

Hope that helps!

[325isracer]

are the points of these races to win or just have fun and drive around on the track?

[CorgiCoupe]

are the points of these races to win or just have fun and drive around on the track?

The point is not to race, and this is explained in bold type on every document I've seen from those sponsoring HPDEs. The purpose of the schools is to give you an opportunity to learn to drive your car at progressively faster speeds, while maintaining safe conditions, on a racetrack with a competent instructor helping you to do so. The presence of others on the track should be minimized in your mind, except when overtaking or being overtaken. Ego is left at home, and competitiveness is limited to competing with yourself.

[Ffroggs]

<snip>...The presence of others on the track should be minimized in your mind, except when overtaking or being overtaken. Ego is left at home, and competitiveness is limited to competing with yourself.

That's absolutely, right, but keep in mind, Wonka, that the infamous "Red Mist" will be present to some degree when you're out there on the track. When you get passed by someone, it takes a great deal of self control to keep yourself from:

(1) following *his* line;
(2) focusing on his bumber instead of looking ahead through the turn;
(3) trying to prove to yourself that you belong in front of him;
(4) becoming disappointed in your own performance when others seem to be doing so much better than you on your first day.

It's really all about self control and concentration. Breathing well and frequently really helps to control your body's instinctual reactions to being outperfomed in a balls-to-the-wall environment. Another thing I do to help maintain my concentration when overtaken is slow down and let the guy get at least a full turn ahead of me. It allows me to better see the turn I'm approaching and not focus on his bumper. (The problem, of couse, is that I've found that I'm getting pretty good in the twisties, so I tend to catch up to him again by the end of the twisties, when he lets me by, but then since he's got more horsepower, he'll want to pass me just before we get back to the twisties after the straightaway, starting the cycle all over again.)

The slowest people on the first day are often among the fastest in their run group by the end of the event. This can be measured by the number of people who pass you and you are passing, not by looking at your speedometer.

I tell you, though...one of the best feelings in the world is when you catch up to the high horsepower vehicles during all the twisties. Doesn't matter if they pull away in the straights, because you can be secure in the knowledge that you're a better driver.

I've never raced, but it strikes me that racing is a different skillset than what you learn to do at DE's. In racing, you have to know how to take different lines than your competitors so that you can pass them. At DE's, you should always be following the correct line for your car and your skills, and not be impacted by the performance of others on the roadcourse.

[Phat Ham]

wow. Just found this great thread.

One small thing I didn't see mentioned: After your session when you park your car on the paddock, don't engage the parking brake. Your brakes will be really hot and engaging the parking brake can mess with the heat dissipation of the rotors and possibly cause them to warp. It can also help to pop your hood to let the engine cool off.

[M3 Pete]

That's absolutely, right, but keep in mind, Wonka, that the infamous "Red Mist" will be present to some degree when you're out there on the track. When you get passed by someone, it takes a great deal of self control to keep yourself from:

(1) following *his* line;
(2) focusing on his bumber instead of looking ahead through the turn;
(3) trying to prove to yourself that you belong in front of him;
(4) becoming disappointed in your own performance when others seem to be doing so much better than you on your first day.

.

reminds me of my last DE, an instructor passed me and my instructor had to yell at me "DON'T RACE HIM!"

"but dude, he passed me!"

I tell you, though...one of the best feelings in the world is when you catch up to the high horsepower vehicles during all the twisties. Doesn't matter if they pull away in the straights, because you can be secure in the knowledge that you're a better driver.

THis happened to me last time with a Z06. He would hold me up all through the turns, but then he'd roll on the throttle in the straights and get ahead, only for me to catch up in the next turn. When he finally let me pass it was a great feeling.

[JClark]

Another one: GET RIDES IN YOUR INSTRUCTORS CAR!!

If you're new at this it's going to take you a few tries to hit your marks dead on every turn. Ride with your instructor and memorize his points, foot work, how he brakes, when he brakes. It will make it easy to do yourself when you get back in your own car.

[1996 328ti]

Another one: GET RIDES IN YOUR INSTRUCTORS CAR!!

If you're new at this it's going to take you a few tries to hit your marks dead on every turn. Ride with your instructor and memorize his points, foot work, how he brakes, when he brakes. It will make it easy to do yourself when you get back in your own car.

But do this with caution. Your car may not be set up the same. You do not have as many miles of experience. I think for most students, especially novices, the braking zone is going to be a bit earlier than the more advanced drivers. Also an instructor may not be on the 'party line' so take that in consideration. If the instructor is smooth you will notice the steering wheel turned and set in a turn. No sawing motion. Notice smooth transistion from brake to gas. There is a lot to learn just don't do what I did after going for a ride with my instructor at my first event. After getting out of his car I now realized what I was doing wrong. After a few laps I drove right off because I was carrying too much speed in a set of downhill esses.

[CorgiCoupe]

That's absolutely, right, but keep in mind, Wonka, that the infamous "Red Mist" will be present to some degree when you're out there on the track. When you get passed by someone, it takes a great deal of self control to keep yourself from:

I heard a different aspect this past weekend. I was observing a Panoz Track Day at T7 of Road Atlanta, and asking questions of the professional driver/instructor monitoring the corner. An M5 seemed to be hitting the apex quite well for the 1st 20 minutes of the session, and then began to apex early on every lap. The instructor's comment was, "red mist, he's trying to pass the corvette and lost his line."

[dugies25]

i'm new at this...going to the Glen at the end of August for driving school...i am worried i'm in over my head, i hear people talking about the garage and paddock area and doing work on their car. I don't know what i am doing in a garage, I love my car and I love to drive my car, but if i have to change my brake pads or my oil or do any work on my car when i am there, then i have no idea what i am doing. can i just go there an drive and learn and not have to worry about being a mechanic (no matter how small or easy the tasks might be)? don't get me wrong, i would love to know how to work on my car, i just don't have a clue at this point. thanks.

[Irish1]

I really appreciate the honesty of this reply. You CAN be a mechanic-novice and do just fine at Track Days as long as you're not pushing your car really hard. BMWs are pretty resilient cars at HPDE (High Performance Driving Events), so as long as you've checked your oil, coolant level, brake fluid levels, and tire pressures before you hit the track AND in between sessions, you should be OK. As long as your brake pads are newish and you're not braking VERY late and chewing down the pads the pads should be fine. I would recommend having the brake fluid changed before the event with a high performance fluid like Motul or ATE SuperBlue just so you're sure the brakes won't overheat if you haven't done that in awhile. Ask questions: track and club staff are delighted to have new drivers out there, and they appreciate the opportunity to tell you where you should park your car in the paddock/pits/ garage, etc. Sometimes you DO run into a snippy guy that wants to embarass you, but that's very much the exception. There's lots of VERY generous fellow drivers who will help you problem solve any difficulties, and even help you work on your car. That's one of the best things about Track Days: just the sheer friendliness and helpfulness of other drivers. Just ask questions, especially of drivers with the same kind of car as you. It's the same with driving technique: modesty and humility are tremendous benefits to you because they allow you to listen and to integrate complicated information into your consciousness without all that "Yeah, but..." ego stuff getting in the way. Have fun.

i'm new at this...going to the Glen at the end of August for driving school...i am worried i'm in over my head, i hear people talking about the garage and paddock area and doing work on their car. I don't know what i am doing in a garage, I love my car and I love to drive my car, but if i have to change my brake pads or my oil or do any work on my car when i am there, then i have no idea what i am doing. can i just go there an drive and learn and not have to worry about being a mechanic (no matter how small or easy the tasks might be)? don't get me wrong, i would love to know how to work on my car, i just don't have a clue at this point. thanks.