2006 E90 - FOB not staying in key hole and no start

[derekmw]

Hi guys,

Posting this for a friend who is stranded. I tried reading up on how these newer cars work (I own an e39). I understand that the key FOB has tabs that grab the FOB when inserted and some people break these. However, I do not think this is the case with my friend. Here is the situation:

- Pressing start button does nothing. NO sounds, no humming, no crank, no dimming of lights
- Car battery appears fine (he doesn't have a volt meter but lights turn on, car unlocks, radio etc) - I know that's not the best test but read on to see why I think it may be something other than battery
- He claims there is almost as if two positions within the key hole, and usually once you push it in all the way (second notch), the tabs grab the key FOB. However, this is not happening, it just pops back out to the first notch
- Pressing brake pedal and holding FOB in place (pushed all the way in), and pressing start button does not work.
- Using his spare valet key, does the same thing
- Had him also try pressing the brake pedal very hard to make sure it engages the sensor known to cause issues

As I understood, if the tabs broke, pressing the FOB in place and pressing the start button should start it? This does not work. I almost feel like it's not recognizing the key, but he said there is no indication of that on the dash cluster.

Any ideas what this could be? He is going to try and get a jump start just to make sure and rule out a bad battery.

I think we'll all agree it's most likely not the key either since both primary and valet key are doing the same thing.

[derekmw]

No one have any ideas????

[smc850ci]

Is this for an auto trans car? If so, is it in P or N? sounds like the options are: very low battery charge or busted ignition dock/lock.

[White94RX]

A situation like this is extremely difficult to diagnose without physically looking at the car, running a diagnostic test, etc.

[derekmw]

I understand, and it's hard for me over the phone as well, lol. He tried jump starting to no avail so most battery is fine.

The car is an automatic and yes, it is in P.

For diagnostics, should there be any indication on the dash if the immobilizer or key reading mechanism (I'm sure there's a name for it) isn't working properly? He says the only thing that shows up on dash is the key symbol (no slash through it - I read that if there is a slash, across the key symbol that means it isn't able to read the key?)

[smc850ci]

True. I get that symbol when I leave the key in and open the door, or if I hold the key close to the dash and open the door. So it seams as if the ignition dock is reading that the key IS there. Hmmmmmmm

When you insert the key, does the steering wheel unlock? Does it lock when you remove the key?

[derekmw]

No, it does not unlock. So I told him to try turning the steering wheel a little bit one way or the other to see if it unlocks when pushing the key in, but he claims that didn't help unlock the steering wheel.

I don't know how the keys work, but is there truly two positions within the hole? and to start car, you push it past the first notch and at the second notch, the tabs should come out and grab the key? As I mentioned in the first post, it does not grab but pops back out into the first notch/position.

[smc850ci]

No, it does not unlock. So I told him to try turning the steering wheel a little bit one way or the other to see if it unlocks when pushing the key in, but he claims that didn't help unlock the steering wheel. I don't know how the keys work, but is there truly two positions within the hole? and to start car, you push it past the first notch and at the second notch, the tabs should come out and grab the key? As I mentioned in the first post, it does not grab but pops back out into the first notch/position.

No, just one position. Push it in with your finger and then let go. It should be locked in. Push it again and it will pop out some and be released. Think of an entertainment cabinet door. Push once to close, push again to open.

[derekmw]

Ok, so it sounds like there's not really any issues with the key then. It's just a problem that the start button doesn't seem to do a thing.

Being that nothing happens at all, is there any kind of indications that I can look for that the car should give me to know what the issue could be? It really seems like this is probably something very simple...

[smc850ci]

If the battery is drained enough, even a jump won't do the trick. Remove the battery and charge it up. If it's dead, then start with a new battery and go from there.

[derekmw]

Right, if the battery is that dead, that's def needed, however, his headlights come on, radio works fine, etc. That doesn't sound like a completely drained battery. There's enough juice in it that a simple jump start should do the trick, wouldn't you agree?

He also said he actually just got this battery near the end of '12, so it's not even 6 months old yet. I have to assume it's something other than the battery.

[grabbat]

Right, if the battery is that dead, that's def needed, however, his headlights come on, radio works fine, etc. That doesn't sound like a completely drained battery. There's enough juice in it that a simple jump start should do the trick, wouldn't you agree?

He also said he actually just got this battery near the end of '12, so it's not even 6 months old yet. I have to assume it's something other than the battery.

remove the negative battery cable, wait 10-15 mn, put it back and try.
In the meantime get a voltmeter and test the battery. it should be 12.4-12.6 volts.

[Pyewacket69]

Right, if the battery is that dead, that's def needed, however, his headlights come on, radio works fine, etc. That doesn't sound like a completely drained battery. There's enough juice in it that a simple jump start should do the trick, wouldn't you agree?

He also said he actually just got this battery near the end of '12, so it's not even 6 months old yet. I have to assume it's something other than the battery.

I've seen batteries with a dead cell that power the lights, radio, etc. without any problem, but as soon as a significant load is placed on the battery, everything dies.

Dead cells can occur at any time, regardless of battery age. The only sure way to know if the battery is fully functional is to have a load test placed on it, which just about any car shop (and any parts houses) can do, usually for little to no fee.

[derekmw]

Ok, so disconnecting for over 15 min didn't help.

Also had him connect jumper cables with his dad's car running for 15 min before trying to start, but still no go. Exact symptoms.

I assume at this point it has to be something other than battery. What do you guys suggest? I will probably make it there tomorrow night with my voltmeter...but i'm doubtful it's the battery

[Pyewacket69]

Ok, so disconnecting for over 15 min didn't help.

Also had him connect jumper cables with his dad's car running for 15 min before trying to start, but still no go. Exact symptoms.

I assume at this point it has to be something other than battery. What do you guys suggest? I will probably make it there tomorrow night with my voltmeter...but i'm doubtful it's the battery

Again, Ive seem batteries with a dead cell in a car that couldn't be jumped off by a second battery. Unless you have your battery load-tested, you will never know if it has a dead-short in one of the cells. Why not rule the battery out completely and get it tested? You can play the guessing game from now on and never find the solution, until you begin to reliably rule out where the problem isn't.

[smc850ci]

... i'm doubtful it's the battery

Then I would get it hooked up to a code reader and see if there's any codes coming back atcha. Otherwise, you're just gonna be throwing parts at it until it works.

[derekmw]

Then I would get it hooked up to a code reader and see if there's any codes coming back atcha. Otherwise, you're just gonna be throwing parts at it until it works.

So he got impatient and yesterday just decided to try to se if it starts, ad it started right up. Now it starts every time. This has gotten me stumped, I have no idea why it didn't work, and now why it suddenly works just fine. I assume something electrical going hay-wire and we won't know until it happens again.

[smc850ci]

user error ;-]

[derekmw]

Haha, you would hope someone who's owned their car over a year, knows how to start the car. :P Either way, I checked on him yesterday and he said it died again, same symptoms, nothing but the key indicator on dash when inserting key, but start button does nothing. He ended up getting it towed to the dealership. I'm very curious to find out what they say was the cause...

[smc850ci]

Hey, where are you in San Diego? I'm from South Mission Beach!

[ihsnshaik]

tell us what the problem is! Im interested to know

[derekmw]

Will do, waiting to hear from him and I'll update you guys here.

smc850ci:
south mission beach eh? I'm over in Linda Vista across from Fashion Valley mall. Your info says puget sound? You're up in WA? Funny since I used to live in Seattle and moved down here. :P

[derekmw]

Ok, so BMW came back with results. They are saying the key slot is defective and needs to be replaced. On top of that, they think the CAS module may also be bad and need to replace that if replacing the key slot alone doesn't fix the issue. They quoted him $1600 to do this. Seems a bit off to me.

[Tired of da 750]

I have same issue as your friend...can you tell me what the issue is my car has been down 2 months

[jlevite]

Change the battery in the back of the key. Watch it work. Battery is so low it is using all of its power for the proximity switch open doors, but not enough to be recognized. it is the comfort access that makes a difference. in e90 the key charges in the car no battery to replace if it doesn't have comfort access. go change the battery in the back of the fob.