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Thread: Koni front inserts, revisited

  1. #76
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    Does the M-Sport lower the car at all?
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
    ...the M-tech "Low slung" setup...
    What he said ^^^^.
    That gets negated if you throw in the Bilstein high pressure insert/shock, built to a marketing image, rather than spec'd to an application.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    95 840Ci
    That was so 2013 / 77 posts ago. I must have missed that part. Thanks. Where is the best place to aquire these springs in the states?
    Current
    95 e31 840 Ci (Auto) Orient Blue 61k
    11 e90 328i Space Gray
    18 F15 X5 35i XDrive White

    Past
    00 e38 740 i (Auto) Titanium Silver
    94 e31 840 Ci (6 speed conv.) Avus Blau (This car was Awesome!)
    03 e46 325 Ci (Auto) Jet Black
    91 e31 850i (Auto) Diamond Black, Yes, two!
    91 e31 850i (Auto) Diamond Black
    00 e39 528i (Auto) Jet Black
    92 e36 325i (Auto) Laguna Green


  4. #79
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    840Ci/6 528iT Europa TCS
    I don't think you can buy these in the US any longer. I tried with Gault a few years ago and they were not available in the US. Contact someone in Europe and ask if they will get them for you and ship them here. Possibly a parts supplier in Europe can get them for you. If you go with the front shock upgrade, you can buy those Konis almost anywhere.

  5. #80
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    Iceland
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    BMW 850
    What about going the csi springs with the konis?

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    95 840Ci
    I've got the Koni's and am doing the upgrade, just trying to figure out which spring set. I've had HRs, Eibach, each with their own quirks. I'm on board with trying to keep BMW engineering in mind. They don't do a bad job. CSI springs may be a little too firm for daily driver? For now, I'm just doing the shock upgrade with stock springs.
    Current
    95 e31 840 Ci (Auto) Orient Blue 61k
    11 e90 328i Space Gray
    18 F15 X5 35i XDrive White

    Past
    00 e38 740 i (Auto) Titanium Silver
    94 e31 840 Ci (6 speed conv.) Avus Blau (This car was Awesome!)
    03 e46 325 Ci (Auto) Jet Black
    91 e31 850i (Auto) Diamond Black, Yes, two!
    91 e31 850i (Auto) Diamond Black
    00 e39 528i (Auto) Jet Black
    92 e36 325i (Auto) Laguna Green


  7. #82
    Join Date
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    840Ci/6 528iT Europa TCS
    Eibachs were on the car when I bought it. So I did the upgrade in order to get rid of the Eibachs. As long as you don't have aftermarket springs you are ahead of the game. I did the Eurosport springs, CSI rear shocks, the Konis up front, and finally M parallels and I am very happy with my setup. I still have the stock sway bars and the car does everything quite well. I am going to leave it the way it is.

  8. #83
    Join Date
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    Harrisburg, PA, USA
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    x5, 640i, 850Ci, 850CSi
    You can order the M-sport springs from Schmiedmann (www.schmiedmann.com). They deliver to the US, and their prices are usually pretty good.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike Barrett
    94 850CSi, Hellrot over silbergrau dunkel/silbergrau hell
    96 850Ci, Oxfordgrun over silbergrau hell

  9. #84
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    850Ci, M5, Model-S P85D
    Quote Originally Posted by IJustDrive View Post
    Does the M-Sport lower the car at all?

    Yep, BMW spec. 3/4" front 1/2" rear.
    You can look up the specification in the BMW repair Manual - Technical Data, Low-slung Sports Suspension.
    However, if you install Bilsteins most of that goes away.

  10. #85
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    Oct 2018
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    Los Angeles California
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    1993 BMW 850 AND OTHERS
    what are the m-sport springrates?

  11. #86
    Join Date
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    95 840Ci
    Anybody know them?
    Current
    95 e31 840 Ci (Auto) Orient Blue 61k
    11 e90 328i Space Gray
    18 F15 X5 35i XDrive White

    Past
    00 e38 740 i (Auto) Titanium Silver
    94 e31 840 Ci (6 speed conv.) Avus Blau (This car was Awesome!)
    03 e46 325 Ci (Auto) Jet Black
    91 e31 850i (Auto) Diamond Black, Yes, two!
    91 e31 850i (Auto) Diamond Black
    00 e39 528i (Auto) Jet Black
    92 e36 325i (Auto) Laguna Green


  12. #87
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Santa Barbara
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    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    Quote Originally Posted by IJustDrive View Post
    Anybody know them?
    Why, yes... http://mwrench.com/Whitepapers/Spring%20rate/
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERICSWENSTON View Post
    what are the m-sport springrates?
    The actual F&R spring rates in lbs/in. doesn't mean that much unless you are doing a full suspension geometry, sprung weight and motion center location analysis.
    However:
    850 Stock Front: suspension natural frequency = 1.03 Hz
    850 Stock Rear: suspension natural frequency = 1.25 Hz

    M-Sport Front: 35% stiffer than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency = 1.19 Hz
    M-Sport Rear: 30% stiffer than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency = 1.42 Hz

    Dinan Front: 27% stiffer (spring wire dia. = .59 in) than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency = 1.15 Hz
    Dinan Rear: 20% stiffer (spring wire dia. = .625 in)than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency = 1.37 Hz
    I list Dinan because they were the only aftermarket performance spring set I know of that performs is as good as the BMW engineered stuff!!

    CSi Front: 60% stiffer than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency of 1.30 Hz
    CSi Rear: 68% stiffer than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency of 1.62 Hz


    What really sets the BMW Stock, M-Sport, CSi and Dinan spring rates apart from the other aftermarket spring sets is the BMW & Dinan front & rear spring rates are "matched" to the actual suspension geometry and provide the best motion center locations for the best suspension Pitch/Bounce motion performance, i.e, the front & rear suspensions moves together (up and down) as much as possible after encountering roadway irregularities (bumps and dips in the road).
    Unfortunately, Ebach, H&R, AC Schnitzer, etc. (I've tested and/or calculated) messed up on the E31's rear 5-link suspension geometry and therefore their rear spring rates are something like -30% too soft and not compatible for the front spring rates in the spring set causing the pitch/motion performance to be very poor to put it mildly!!

    IMHO, there is no magic here and to keep it simple stick with the BMW M-sport or CSi spring rate engineering and you will not be disappointed.

    I have posted this stuff many times over the years and if you search this forum you will find loads of performance graphs and data on the E31 suspension and various spring sets.

  14. #89
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    1991 850i manual
    ok , i am completely confused now... what the hell should i do...still all stock and i want a soft ride...or a touring ride... old butt and back. The only thing that is not stock are my 17 in rims. But i still have those ugly 16 inch stock rims, really ugly. I am bach...what happened to the trw/gabriel alternative?
    Thanks, Scott aka Old Crunchy.
    1991 BMW 850i
    2007 Honda Odyssey
    2017 Hyundai Elantra
    2013 Honda CRV
    2003 MotoGuzzi 850 Jackal

  15. #90
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    BMW 850
    TRW sold out

  16. #91
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    Mar 2011
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    Queen City MS
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    E31, E39, E46
    There's a seller on ebay.uk that still gets TRWs every so often and he has fronts in stock right now: dusty789blue Pretty quick shipping too. I looked and he doesn't have the rear shocks at the moment.

  17. #92
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    Vancouver Canada
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    '91 850i, E39 & E46 Cars
    I recently got TRW rear shocks and front shocks from dusty789blue, I saw them on eBay. He ships from the UK via FedEx, and I have had two good experiences with this person. Front ones are listed now on eBay, just keep an eye out for rears that will turn up on eBay. TRW part numbers are: front set- JGC143T; rear set JGT300T.
    Hope this helps! /Henry

  18. #93
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    Thanks to the three gentleman who replied to my post about the TRW shocks. Will contact dusty789blue. cleaned up and painted the lower front cowl pieces and bottom plastic engine cover... I replaced the starter about three or four weeks ago... the original part failed on me at about 130K miles. Took it off and replaced with a cheaper version from RockAuto..you get what you pay for! Shot after 35 thousand miles...I replaced the cheap starter with a Bosch remanufactured...hope this one lasts longer because that baby is a bitch to get out...I was able to finesse the starter out up through hood side but its a PITA! I have the exhaust out now and figured I might as well modify...looks like a lot of "cat back" conversions out there.

    This forum has been a good experience for me...Everybody willing to help and respectful of others opinions. Grateful to be a part of it. What happened to the registry project...still being worked on?
    Last edited by acheson850i; 09-06-2020 at 08:05 PM.
    1991 BMW 850i
    2007 Honda Odyssey
    2017 Hyundai Elantra
    2013 Honda CRV
    2003 MotoGuzzi 850 Jackal

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Had a 1991 BMW 850
    Looking at doing the Koni's this Winter, No body seems to have stock of 8641-1224-Sport?

    Any Great sources?
    Last edited by rjjablo; 10-24-2020 at 09:17 PM.

  20. #95
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    1991 850i 6-speed
    Looks like JEGS have some for shipping on the 30th, but it looks like most of the sites showing these are shipping directly from the manufacturer:
    https://www.jegs.com/i/Koni/610/8641-1224SP/10002/-1

  21. #96
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    Had a 1991 BMW 850
    After reading thru this thread again, Somebody mentioned Tire Rack. Did the lookup for the BMW 750 and Voila in stock, Shipping on Monday, of course they could be like everyone else and drop shipping from Koni. Now I am off to find some reasonably priced rear shocks

  22. #97
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    Had a 1991 BMW 850
    Just did this. Works great. Going to order some TRW Shocks from England

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The OC, CA
    Posts
    696
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    95 840Ci
    Just did this too. Had some old Billies re-valved for the rear. HR front springs, 3/4 cut rear.
    Current
    95 e31 840 Ci (Auto) Orient Blue 61k
    11 e90 328i Space Gray
    18 F15 X5 35i XDrive White

    Past
    00 e38 740 i (Auto) Titanium Silver
    94 e31 840 Ci (6 speed conv.) Avus Blau (This car was Awesome!)
    03 e46 325 Ci (Auto) Jet Black
    91 e31 850i (Auto) Diamond Black, Yes, two!
    91 e31 850i (Auto) Diamond Black
    00 e39 528i (Auto) Jet Black
    92 e36 325i (Auto) Laguna Green


  24. #99
    tvjake2's Avatar
    tvjake2 is offline SoCalEights - CA BMW CCA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by m6bigdog View Post
    The actual F&R spring rates in lbs/in. doesn't mean that much unless you are doing a full suspension geometry, sprung weight and motion center location analysis.
    However:
    850 Stock Front: suspension natural frequency = 1.03 Hz
    850 Stock Rear: suspension natural frequency = 1.25 Hz

    M-Sport Front: 35% stiffer than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency = 1.19 Hz
    M-Sport Rear: 30% stiffer than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency = 1.42 Hz

    Dinan Front: 27% stiffer (spring wire dia. = .59 in) than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency = 1.15 Hz
    Dinan Rear: 20% stiffer (spring wire dia. = .625 in)than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency = 1.37 Hz
    I list Dinan because they were the only aftermarket performance spring set I know of that performs is as good as the BMW engineered stuff!!

    CSi Front: 60% stiffer than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency of 1.30 Hz
    CSi Rear: 68% stiffer than the stock spring rate with a suspension natural frequency of 1.62 Hz


    What really sets the BMW Stock, M-Sport, CSi and Dinan spring rates apart from the other aftermarket spring sets is the BMW & Dinan front & rear spring rates are "matched" to the actual suspension geometry and provide the best motion center locations for the best suspension Pitch/Bounce motion performance, i.e, the front & rear suspensions moves together (up and down) as much as possible after encountering roadway irregularities (bumps and dips in the road).
    Unfortunately, Ebach, H&R, AC Schnitzer, etc. (I've tested and/or calculated) messed up on the E31's rear 5-link suspension geometry and therefore their rear spring rates are something like -30% too soft and not compatible for the front spring rates in the spring set causing the pitch/motion performance to be very poor to put it mildly!!

    IMHO, there is no magic here and to keep it simple stick with the BMW M-sport or CSi spring rate engineering and you will not be disappointed.

    I have posted this stuff many times over the years and if you search this forum you will find loads of performance graphs and data on the E31 suspension and various spring sets.

    Any opinion on these coil over shocks? https://ceika-store.com/collections/...ducts/cct1m123
    CEIKA_Type_1M_Custom_Bolt-on_Coilovers_da9269ed-970f-40e3-b60c-8b6b41aa376b_2000x.png

  25. #100
    tvjake2's Avatar
    tvjake2 is offline SoCalEights - CA BMW CCA Member
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    Disregard. I found your previous answer in November. Thanks.

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