HPF out of business today...?

[ZooyorQ]

What about the other side of the coin? Where HPF CLEARLY used their customers as beta testers. I've been told by more than a few people that their opinion was that the E46 turbo kits were nothing more than a marketing strategy to a company that sound hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars of drop-shipped parts for damn near every car known to man (at least that was the attempt, anything E46 turbo related on google took you to their site, where you then notice that you can buy all kinds of stuff). In this sense, it could very well be that the stars lined up just right where Chris saw things coming, bankrupted the company on purpose, hid assets wherever possible (I'm SURE there is a parent company to HPF, perhaps one that owns the building that HPF probably rents for an exorbitant amount of money). And then when this court case happened, Chris saw the cards on the table, and made the smartest business decision - fold now, now that he's done a good job screwing the BMW community and bilked about as much money as he could out of the M3 turbo kits, and walk away? He's probably going to go ball out somewhere for the next year or so, laughing all the way to the bank, before he decides to start his next business. IIRC, this was pretty much how it happened in the Supra community when he shut down TorqueFreaks, right??

I think you're giving Chris way to much credit.. I look at it more as a Polk High/Al Bundy moment where Chris kept dumping money into a solution that was past its prime. Just to cling on to that feeling the first time he released the big numbers and dyno videos years ago.

[good & tight]

No body is perfect. But you have to give Chris props for taking the E46 M3 to a whole new level, he was the 1st to make a turbo kit to the masses world wide. Numerous car magazine covers, world wide exposure, after market products, drag car, track car. He made HPF a house hold name in the BMW community. It's funny how the same haters are back to add more negative comments and gloat about his misfortune.

IMO he did something great for the E46M3, might have not been the ideal or perfect setup in every ones eyes, but he did definitely created a place in history with his company. I wish him well in the future and his employees.

[5mall5nail5]

I love smallsnail's comment regarding tax write off's.. reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upifaeK0B5U

Um, except I understand, because I have a family that runs a small business and 75% of them are CPA's. Sorry you're having a hard time understanding.

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Both HPF and the customer were taken advantage of in David's scam. He would sell you items that still had margin remaining in them. Once you paid he would modify the invoice, reducing the price on those items with margin left down to cost or close to.

Correct. I understand that. But ccsykes claims he's a wizard that CEO's consult for expeditious investigation... and he didn't notice it on his own receipts/invoices. Irony.

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I think you're giving Chris way to much credit.. I look at it more as a Polk High/Al Bundy moment where Chris kept dumping money into a solution that was past its prime. Just to cling on to that feeling the first time he released the big numbers and dyno videos years ago.

Yeah and you're not the least bit biased.

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foresight (or intelligence/balls)

Bold words from someone who listens to Jason and his ProEFI wunderbox.

[ZooyorQ]

Um, except I understand, because I have a family that runs a small business and 75% of them are CPA's. Sorry you're having a hard time understanding.



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Correct. I understand that. But ccsykes claims he's a wizard that CEO's consult for expeditious investigation... and he didn't notice it on his own receipts/invoices. Irony.

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Yeah and you're not the least bit biased.

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Bold words from someone who listens to Jason and his ProEFI wunderbox.

Writing something off still means you had to buy it to begin with, its a great way to offset profits when your business is GROWING. Lowers your tax liability but its not an excuse to invest in a expensive shop car/etc.

The invoices were doctored on HPF's end.. not our end. The only way you'd see the changes is if you logged into HPF's invoicing system online and looked at an invoice you already received via email and paid.

I never wished HPF to close.. I may not have liked Chris B or the way he tried to play my situation against ProEFI for gain. But I certainly didn't wish this.

I agree regarding the ProEFI box. I was sold on it.. and in retrospect I thought the support would be there and continued development.. that wasn't the case. But I didn't bet the farm or deceive anyone..

[ccsykes]

So wait a second. On one hand you know exactly how HPF was run and you would have caught it and blah blah. On another hand you were charged for parts you didn't need but "had so many lines you didn't catch it until later." Nothing is more ironic.

I'm not trying to be a prick here.. but a $250 water pump wasn't something that was going to catch my attention on a $80K bill.

[5mall5nail5]

I'm not trying to be a prick here.. but a $250 water pump wasn't something that was going to catch my attention on a $80K bill.

It would if you were auditing. Sorry to say. I am in the government sector. $250? Try $5 discrepancy. You can't have your soup both ways there Sykes.

[ccsykes]

What happened was Chris did not have the foresight (or intelligence/balls) to start downsizing at the first sign of problems..

Bottom line, his ego got the best of him. It's called Karma..

[nick325xit 5spd]

So you're alleging HPF made no profit? There's no distinction necessary the very definition of the word is clear. The definition of taxes is money you owe based on money you've made - kind of...intrinsic...

You don't pay income taxes on the gross profit of each individual kit. You add it all up for each time period (quarterly) and pay taxes on your net profit.

It's pretty clear that after the cost of parts, overhead, shop cars, and whatever other activities they were up to, HPF was not turning a profit. If they were, they'd still be in business. QED.

You don't need to see the financial statements to understand this. It's obvious.

[5mall5nail5]

I agree regarding the ProEFI box. I was sold on it.. and in retrospect I thought the support would be there and continued development.. that wasn't the case. But I didn't bet the farm or deceive anyone..

All I am saying is no matter what Derek reveals or what we think we know ... the truth is on Chris' desk not ours. I am not about to sit here and pretend I know what happened... others should take follow.

Per Jason/ProEFI, its the same exact story - promise of a brighter tomorrow, no issues, "yeah yeah we support you". Its hard for companies like these - people ask manufacturers to sell them parts/engines/cars that to perform 2, 3, 4x that of their intent and then get mad when the fail. It's a tough market to exist in.

That said, all we can do is feel for people with families who were screwed by this HPF employee. We can say "Yeah you'd notice..." but honestly, being our ERP admin, who is to say that he wasn't obscuring it on their end too. Hell - forge a report? Throw some SQL transaction in or out? Not something I would ever dare do... but this HPF employee might have known just enough (and obviously he did) to be extremely dangerous. With a family member as a forensic accountant I can first hand say that people are NOT as stupid as they might appear.

[nick325xit 5spd]

All I am saying is no matter what Derek reveals or what we think we know ... the truth is on Chris' desk not ours. I am not about to sit here and pretend I know what happened... others should take follow.

Per Jason/ProEFI, its the same exact story - promise of a brighter tomorrow, no issues, "yeah yeah we support you". Its hard for companies like these - people ask manufacturers to sell them parts/engines/cars that to perform 2, 3, 4x that of their intent and then get mad when the fail. It's a tough market to exist in.

That said, all we can do is feel for people with families who were screwed by this HPF employee. We can say "Yeah you'd notice..." but honestly, being our ERP admin, who is to say that he wasn't obscuring it on their end too. Hell - forge a report? Throw some SQL transaction in or out? Not something I would ever dare do... but this HPF employee might have known just enough (and obviously he did) to be extremely dangerous. With a family member as a forensic accountant I can first hand say that people are NOT as stupid as they might appear.

It's funny. You say that no one should speculate about what happened, and yet you speculate about what happened.

[5mall5nail5]

It's funny. You say that no one should speculate about what happened, and yet you speculate about what happened.

No I don't. I claim to have no idea what so ever. All I know is HPF went out of business and claim the fault of a huge dollar scandal that went on. I won't pretend to know more. You need to read more good. I said nothing more than "I can understand how Chris may never have noticed." I do not find that unbelievable. I am a data guy.

[ccsykes]

You can't have your soup both ways there Sykes.

I'm really having a hard time understanding your logic. You ever bought something at a quickie mart and it cost $4.98? You hand the check out person $5 and they give you back $0.02. Instead of making the effort to put the two pennies in your pocket, you simply toss them into the little tray of pennies on the check out counter. Well.. that's kind of like what having that water pump on my invoice was like.

Auditing? I don't even know what that has to do with this conversation. Obviously Chris never had an audit done, or he would have caught Davids embezzling.

[5mall5nail5]

I'm really having a hard time understanding your logic. You ever bought something at a quickie mart and it cost $4.98? You hand the check out person $5 and they give you back $0.02. Instead of making the effort to put the two pennies in your pocket, you simply toss them into the little tray of pennies on the check out counter. Well.. that's kind of like what having that water pump on my invoice was like.

Auditing? I don't even know what that has to do with this conversation. Obviously Chris never had an audit done, or he would have caught Davids embezzling.

It's easier than that. You had a component you didn't order. If I had a receipt for something I didn't buy, I'd be like um wtf? Yeah call me crazy but I check receipts. It's probably why I don't order extra water pumps.

Oh well you win. You're smarter.

[ccsykes]

You don't pay income taxes on the gross profit of each individual kit. You add it all up for each time period (quarterly) and pay taxes on your net profit.

It's pretty clear that after the cost of parts, overhead, shop cars, and whatever other activities they were up to, HPF was not turning a profit. If they were, they'd still be in business. QED.

You don't need to see the financial statements to understand this. It's obvious.

I think snail boy should stick to measuring bumpers on launch and tuning turbo cars in his driveway..

[5mall5nail5]

I think snail boy should stick to measuring bumpers on launch and tuning turbo cars in his driveway..

Weren't you the one talking about egos?

[GG///M3]

Man you guys are at it again.

[ccsykes]

It's easier than that. You had a component you didn't order. If I had a receipt for something I didn't buy, I'd be like um wtf? Yeah call me crazy but I check receipts. It's probably why I don't order extra water pumps.

I just didn't pay that close of attention to it and obviously many other HPF customers didn't either.. it's how David was able to get away with his scam for so long.

Oh well you win. You're smarter.

It's not about winning, you would kick my ass with car knowledge I'm quite sure, but business is one thing I do very well. It's my source of ego, much like your car prowess fuels yours.

[futureroadracer]

I think snail boy should stick to measuring bumpers on launch and tuning turbo cars in his driveway..

What did that 80k get you again?

[dohcdoh]

Notice how quickly the hpf haters came back? It's like they disappeared, until a post about hpf doing bad and then bam! There they all are again. Interesting, they must have been watching us.

[ccsykes]

Weren't you the one talking about egos?

I admit I have an ego.. a really F'ing big one actually. Your the one in denial.

[EE05063]

Notice how quickly the hpf haters came back? It's like they disappeared, until a post about hpf doing bad and then bam! There they all are again. Interesting, they must have been watching us.

It's not a flattering thing when so many people are ready to pounce. Justified or not.

[ccsykes]

What did that 80k get you again?

A headache.. that's why I sold the car. It was my money to burn, not sure why you care.

[futureroadracer]

A headache.. that's why I sold the car. It was my money to burn, not sure why you care.

Oh, please don't confuse things... I really don't care. I was suggesting that maybe that's why they went out of business. 80k for 12-15k in parts. Well, at least a few people fell for it. Good job!

And yea, you do have an ego. Maybe you got what you deserved... Karma?! Go ahead and head back to Fanatics... at least there you're the coolest guy on the internet.

[5mall5nail5]

Notice how quickly the hpf haters came back? It's like they disappeared, until a post about hpf doing bad and then bam! There they all are again. Interesting, they must have been watching us.

It's funny, that.

I admit I have an ego.. a really F'ing big one actually. Your the one in denial.

You're arguing with me and I have taken a stance of "I don't know what the real situation was but I know when something I didn't buy is on a receipt." Tell ya what Chad, you win because I have no clue what you're problem is

[bry195]

I admit I have an ego.. a really F'ing big one actually. Your the one in denial.

pure brilliance. This should be in your signature. How awesome it would be if everyone had to read this thread as a reminder of just how human and flawed we are regardless the confidence we have in our own position or words.