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Thread: my build thread, e30 with a 9 inch

  1. #226
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Huntsville, AL
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    95 M3
    Piston's too were my weak point in my stock block M10 after exhaust valve float. I was fortunate with the pistons as all four broke at the pin location and knock was evident, thus I didn't throw a rod and window a block. I too am learning much, keep it up!
    WOT

  2. #227
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    Apr 2006
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    86 325es
    Started putting the head on. here is how to get the head on over the timing chain and rail without growing a third limb. zip tie the chain to the guide rail. I also tig welded the oil pump nut to the sprocket.




    Here's something I bet you havn't seen before, a factory oil pump chain tensioner on an m50. Please contact me if you know anything about these. Apparently a rare few non vanos m50's came with them. I can't even find a part number on realoem for it, and have only been able to find one other person that has one. wierd



    cometic installed. I put a very thin coat of silicone on the timing chain area of the gasket before install.



    11mm head studs in and torqued. I torqued them to 75 lbs and will start working it up 10 lbs at a time to see how far it wants to go.



    Last edited by someguy2800; 07-12-2018 at 01:11 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  3. #228
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    Aug 2009
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    Dakota County, Minnesota
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    1997 BMW 328i
    My car will be ready to rip this upcoming weekend I hope. I'm going to come over whether you like it or not

  4. #229
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    sounds good, I'll leave beer in the fridge for you but I won't be here! I really would like to get a ride in your car and your welcome anytime.

    I had a minor setback last night. I was incrementally torquing up the studs and pulled one of the threads out of the block at 115 ft lbs. It was the thread that got damaged by a broken tap and had to be helicoiled. It pulled the helicoil right out of the block. I don't have time to fix it at the moment so I'm gonna go with my spare motor.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  5. #230
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    mach 2 with my hair on fi
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    I always install a tentioner on my oil pump I order the s54 tentioner,spring and dowels I sugges you do the same.
    1991 bmw 325I <e30>
    First 8 second full body BMW with BMW independent rear suspension in the USA
    8.69 @160mph in a 1/4mile on slicks.
    drag radial tires record holder9.53@148. Also a world record holder for bmw overall 60-130mph 4.2 seconds.
    Bistein sport susp,turner sway bars,3:25lsd,m52 AEM INFINITY stand alone. MORAN 2500cc injectors E85 ,front mount 33x12x4 intercooler, 5lug conversion M3 front,Mcoupe rear Dss axles/driveshaft ATI Proglide.
    2003 Ford Expedition
    1998 M3
    1986 Mercedes Cosworth 190e 2.3 16v 5speed (sold)

  6. #231
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    Any info about that setup? I assume you just order the studs and drill your own holes in the block?


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Any info about that setup? I assume you just order the studs and drill your own holes in the block?
    Correct. here is the link to my original high rpm oil pump problems/solutions thread:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pump+tentioner
    Last edited by djborya; 07-24-2013 at 12:16 PM.
    1991 bmw 325I <e30>
    First 8 second full body BMW with BMW independent rear suspension in the USA
    8.69 @160mph in a 1/4mile on slicks.
    drag radial tires record holder9.53@148. Also a world record holder for bmw overall 60-130mph 4.2 seconds.
    Bistein sport susp,turner sway bars,3:25lsd,m52 AEM INFINITY stand alone. MORAN 2500cc injectors E85 ,front mount 33x12x4 intercooler, 5lug conversion M3 front,Mcoupe rear Dss axles/driveshaft ATI Proglide.
    2003 Ford Expedition
    1998 M3
    1986 Mercedes Cosworth 190e 2.3 16v 5speed (sold)

  8. #233
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    Sep 2005
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    Bellingham, WA
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    e30
    Perry, just a heads up this months Racecar Engineering has a segment on rapid manufacturing. Stratasys was mentioned in the article. Also mentioned were various areas on F1 and LMP prototype cars that use RM for parts and the materials they use. Pretty cool.
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  9. #234
    Join Date
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    Minnesota eh?
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    86 325es
    Time for an update. Me and the wife signed on our first house today so as you can imagine I have been pretty busy lately. We got a 25 acre farm in the country. The property already has a small heated shop so I will be converting that into an machine shop, and building a large heated pole shed for working on some cars.

    Anyway, I got my other motor all together. It was already assembled in storage so I just had to tear it down and go through it again. I redrilled the head bolts to 11mm using my fixture, rechecked all the clearances, and reinstalled the m52b28 pistons with a set of non vanos m50 rods, ARP rod bolts, and non vanos moly filled rings.



    Since I had already oringed this block I will be using a stock head gasket. I had something I've wanted to try for awhile for the orings. I installed slightly over sized copper wire and then slightly flattened it out using an aluminum block on top and a mallet. So basically I took wire that was standing .015 proud, and flattened it out to .010". It turned out nice. I have no idea if it was actually worthwhile, I just wanted to create a wider contact patch on the wire.



    I also decided to use the oil pump chain pensioner from my non vanos block which meant I needed to add the mounting pegs which the newer blocks are missing to mount the tensioner. Originally the pegs are press fit into the block. Rather than mess with that I decided instead to mount the tensioner on a class 12.9 shoulder bolt. So I measured and marked the block and then drilled and taped in for the two shoulder bolts. It worked out pretty good.





    If there is enough interest I might consider building a fixture that would bolt to the timing cover bolt holes to correctly drill and tap the bolt holes. The tensioners are available from the dealership for like 12 bucks.







    When I was assembling this motor I found I was started to experience some main bore distortion as I torqued the mains. On my previous motors I have always used class 12.9 socket head cap screws in the mains. The stock bolts are class 10.9. Normally I torque to 65 ft lbs and have never had a problem but on this motor I noticed that after torqueing the mains the break away torque on the crank was increased to an unacceptable amount. I had to back them down to 55 ft lbs to keep the break away torque acceptable. Make sure to keep an eye on this when using either these or arp main studs. Also on this block I noticed that the break away torque measured at the crankshaft started increasing when torquing the 11mm head studs starting at about 105 ft lbs. I backed these off to 95 lbs. This is the first time I've run into these problems on a bmw motor so it just goes to show you need to stay on your toes and not take thing for granted. The m50 vanos and non vanos blocks are identical as near as I can tell but I am curious if the non vanos block has a higher nickel content as it appears to be harder?

    Once installing the cams I came across another problem. I am running the fabled non vanos intake cam in the exhaust side of the head. I have read about this swap countless times but one thing I've never seen mentioned is that the drive flange on the non vanos intake cam is longer than the flange on a normal exhaust cam.



    This causes the exhaust cam sprocket to sit to far forward, which miss aligns the timing chain between the intake and exhaust cams, and also causes the main timing chain to sit on the edge of the chain rails. No good. I have three non vanos intake cams and they are all like this. So rather than sourcing another cam I made a midnight run into work to machine the cam in the lathe. When I got there though I couldn't find the 4 jaw chuck for the lathe which I needed to hold on the back of the cam. Luckily I work in a big building full of 3d printers so I just printed a fixture to hold the square end of the cam in the lathe.



    I don't remember the exact amount but I had to take off around .140" or so of material to correct the alignment.





    Now with that out of the way I turned to the intake cam. I am using an m54b30 intake cam which is also 240 deg 9.7 lift just like the non vanos intake, but it also has the vanos gear on the front. One thing that is different though is the vanos gear is longer on the m54 cam. I have read that you can just swap gears with a m50 cam but as you can see below that is not gonna work. I have also read that you can just cut 5mm off the gear which will probably work but you will have to cut most of the engagement off of the bolt too.



    Using my cam timing fixture I manually verified the amount of vanos advance and found that on this particular motor it was about 24 crankshaft degrees. After some research using desktop dyno I think that this is a bit excessive for my goals, so I decided I was going to put in a vanos travel limiting shim to try to bring it down a bit. Then I realized that the longer gear will bottom out sooner and thus act as a vanos limiter. After testing I found that the m54 cam advances by 15 crankshaft degrees when activated.



    I ended up installing the the cams at a 114 deg lobe center on the intake, and 110 on the exhaust. For the intake this is 8 degrees advanced from what the m54b30 cam is when installed straight up. For reference a stock m50 vanos is installed at a 110 LCA intake and 101 LCA exhaust. Here are the opening and closing events compared to a m50 vanos.

    mine

    IVO 6 deg btdc
    IVC 54 deg atdc
    EVO 50 deg bbdc
    EVC 10 deg atdc

    stock m50 vanos

    IVO 4 btdc
    IVC 44 abdc
    EVO 35 bbdc
    EVC 13 atdc

    So based on IVO and EVC times both cams are advaced slightly but the IVC time is much later and the EVO time is much earlier due to the longer duration.



    I found that the oil pan I am using was cracked so I had to weld that up and also drill and tap it, which meant I had to drill out the baffel rivets and clean it out. The plug on the top of the picture is the new drain port since the pan leans to the drivers side.



    here it is together, I'll need to move the o2 port.

    Last edited by someguy2800; 07-12-2018 at 01:18 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  10. #235
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    tuckahoe NJ
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    360
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    92 bmw 325i
    We cut .070 off of my cam I wish j had your timing setup when we timed mine we made a jive setup using some guesstimating and a digital degree gauge. I can't remember the setting anymore as it was almost a year ago.

  11. #236
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Suffolk, Virginia
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    35D X5, 335d
    Awesome update, Perry!
    OLD
    E30

    636whp
    1/4 mile: 10.91@144.38
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_f7fUVqblI

    NEW BUILD
    335d

    520whp
    635wtq
    120.51mph trap speed




  12. #237
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Kansas City
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    19
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    1995 M3, 1989 325i
    Just read through the entire thread awesome build! I can't wait to see more updates

  13. #238
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    Apr 2006
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    86 325es
    thanks all

    I got the clutch installed tonight and got it all in the car. I really need to get a lift! I used to be able to swap transmissions and motors in two hours by myself, I'm only 25 but even I keep saying to myself I'm getting too old for this shit. Anyway,

    For my clutch setup I got an interesting pressure plate off another member here. Its a dual diaphragm pressure plate built custom by clutchnet. Basically they stack two diaphragm springs on top of each other to increase the clamping load beyond what is possible with a single spring. A couple people were running these a few years ago and they didn't play nice with the stock bmw clutch hydraulics. I picked this one up from a member that had trouble making it work for next to nothing. This one actually has much of the second diaphragm cut off by clutchnet so this one is actually a diaphragm and a half. I have a feeling that most of the reason why people had such problems with these is because they were using stock rubber lines which balloon under pressure, and they were also likely bending the stock throwout arm, which resulted in them not fully releasing.



    here is the hydraulic clutch setup I put together. I showed some more picture a couple pages back if your interested. it is just a stock GM hydraulic slave cylinder which they used in all the ls1 camaros and 96-01 pickups. the bottom line is the pressure line which I modified to a 1/8 npt rather than the horrid motherfucker quick connect bastard thing that gm likes to use on every impossibly inaccessible damb place they can find. The top line is a remote bleeder to replace the big long bleader screw that comes on it, because once again, gm hates you and thinks everyone in the world owns their specialty tools and has children hands. what a ridiculous place to put a bleeder screw. Alot of camaro guys cut a hole in the floor with a hole saw just to reach that screw! The tan colored piece between the trans and the throwout bearing is a 3d printed spacer, which is needed to bring the bearing forward a bit so that it will have the proper travel.



    Here is the bellhousing on the motor. The two lower bellhousing bolts are inside the bellhousing and are accessible from the rear opening even with the clutch installed. The clutch disk was custom made by clutchnet. It is a standard bmw 6 puck ceramic disk with a 27 spline hub installed. They did the custom hub for free, I just had to tell them what I wanted.




    Once I got it in the car the clutch basically bled itself. I opened the screw and pumped the pedal about 5 times by hand and it started to drain out the bleeder. After closing it up and pumping it a couple dozen times most of the air is already out of it. Tomorrow I'll fully bleed the system and also check to make sure it is fully releasing. The pedal feel is great. I was worried that it would be too soft because of the slave size but the extra heavy pressure plates seams to balance that out nicely. I would say its probably about 25% or so heaver pedal feel than most stock cars. Now lets just hope its releasing properly

    Last edited by someguy2800; 07-12-2018 at 01:20 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  14. #239
    Join Date
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    SR-71 Blackbird
    Not only GM but I would also say that even Ford have some ridiculous designs that one may want to include them in your hate list.



  15. #240
    Join Date
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    Fort Collins
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    02 protege,E30,iroc
    wow this build is insane!! i love the t56 in a bmw
    past Present

  16. #241
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    Perry, I always used to think people who complained about crawling on the ground were just weenies. The older you get the harder it is. Im only in my mid 30s and Im already sick of crawling on the ground. Couldnt imagine doing it in 10 or 15 more years! When I was in my early 20s it was cake!


    When I buy a house, a lift will be my first car mod Even a little MaxJax or something makes most things a million times easier!
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  17. #242
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    minneapolis
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    tite
    crazy fabrication. id like to stop by sometimes just to see it maybe check out your engine mounts, ive been fabricating some of my own

  18. #243
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    Got cut short by the rain but I did get a few minutes to work tonight.

    Last edited by someguy2800; 07-12-2018 at 01:20 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  19. #244
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    1997 BMW 328i
    me gusta. It fits perfect

  20. #245
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    almost like it was made for it!


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Got cut short by the rain but I did get a few minutes to work tonight.

    I bet nobody is willing to take away of those tools if left alone on there cause they know this car is a scary monster machine, a frightening beast.



  22. #247
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    oodii
    Great work This help in my work.

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by auaq View Post
    I bet nobody is willing to take away of those tools if left alone on there cause they know this car is a scary monster machine, a frightening beast.
    I do get alot of double takes and funny comments of people walking by whenever I have it outside. Since there are no badges on the car its really fun listening to people try to figure out what it is. The usual guesses are a datsun, a toyota, or an alfa romeo.


    I just got the clutch bled and it is perfect. Feels way way way better than the stock hydraulics. Totally different pedal feel. It like the first time you ever drive a car with brembo calipers, worlds different. It releases about half way to the floor and is a very light pedal feel even with this monster of a pressure plate. Couldn't be happier. I think I need to design a hydrolic throwout bearing to go in a stock zf trans. Any interest out there?


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  24. #249
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    Perry, im sure lots of people would be interested in a TO setup for the ZF. Seems the slave setup from the factory does not handle some of the stronger pressure plates well. If the feel is more consistent, racers would be interested too.
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  25. #250
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    I might have to work on that if I get my hands on a ZF. I don't think there is anything wrong with the stock master or slave cylinder. I think the problem is the stock rubber hoses and the throwout forks. It would be interesting to take a stock fork and brace it on both ends, then put about 500 lbs in the center and see how much it deflects.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

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